Maxbialystock

"The money he wants" is, I believe, subject to negotiation. I have vacillated on this topic because I don't believe in big contracts for the simple reason that they are high risk because all the money is guaranteed and players are, well, human. Thus to me a $250M contract to retain Bogey, who turns 30 on Oct 1 and whose HR power seems to have left him, is unsupportable. So I think the Sox can keep him for less and probably have that intention. Apparently, he wants to stay along with Devers, who probably wants $500M, which is also unsupportable and and will likely come down. In the end, both may leave. Meanwhile, Bloom is saying that he wants to negotiate.

I'm pretty unhappy with this team too, but they are 1 game below .500 and 3.5 games from getting a wild card. I agree big buys are not called for, but I also don't see "flushing this dumpster fire down the toilet" as making a whole lot of sense. Right now, I'm fine with keeping Bogey and Devers and don't see any compelling reason to hang onto other guys--like JDM and Eovaldi--now in their final season. We have all disparaged Story's OPS, but he was terrific on defense and still leads the team in rbi's, so maybe his absence has affected the Sox ability to win games. Same goes for Devers of course. The rotation has been a total disaster this season, mostly because of injuries, but the sorry defense didn't help. Or consider this: the Sox are paying $63M for Sale, Eovaldi, and Price, who together have contributed a combined WAR of +.7. So, if you want to get mad at someone, think about the late, great DD who basically bought that 2018 season using JH's money.

Oh stop it. Just stop it. In JH's 20 years as owner the Sox have won 4 WS, the most in MLB during that period and three more than the Yankees who have vastly outspent the Sox because they have a much bigger fan base. In between those 4 WS there have been some bad seasons but also some pretty decent ones. For example, last freaking season when the Sox won 92 in the regular season, whipped the Yankees and their very expensive ace in the wild card game, whipped the Rays, who won 100 games, most in the AL, 4 games to 2, and then finally lost to the Astros, 4 games to 2, in the ALCS. You like to come across as a hard-nosed realist, but what your really are is a whiner. FWIW, I don't like this year's Sox either. They are just 2 games below .500, but they are playing really badly. A big part of that is/are the injuries to the rotation, the bullpen, and to Devers, Story, and Kike. But Verdugo, Dalbec, Duran, Cordero, et al, have underperformed at bat, in the field, and running the bases.

Agree. This team lacks depth of talent, and I'm not talking about talent at the level of Devers/Bogaerts or even Story or JDM. There are big holes in the lineup, especially with RISP, weak spots in the defense and when running the bases, a rotation in shreds, and a bullpen that struggles even with Whitlock, Houck, and Schreiber. As I said elsewhere, it does not help that John Henry is paying Eovaldi, Sale, and Price a total of $63M, in return for which their combined WAR as pitchers is +0.7 (.6 for Eovaldi and .1 for Sale).

This makes sense to me. About Bloom (since this is a thread about firing him): he was very successful at Tampa where he had time to build a system for acquiring and training good players while at the same time letting go of high-priced stars like Price and Longoria (although Longoria did stay until age 31 and was paid $13M). To me, especially this year, I see the product of Bloom's "book" (system) in the way Rays players are routinely good running the bases, playing defense, hitting when it counts, pitching, relief pitching, etc. On the other hand, this year's Sox seem to be weak in all areas despite having four players--Devers, Bogey, JDM, and Story--who have been very good in the past and either have been paid accordingly (Bogey, JDM, Story) or will be (Devers). Actually, all four have decent WAR's this season: Devers 4.2, Bogey 3.8, Story 2.1, and JDM 1.0. The Sox are also paying Sale, Eovaldi, and Price a combined total of $63M and getting--wait for it!--+0.6 WAR for Eovaldi, +0.1 WAR for Sale, and 0.000000 WAR for Price.

I agree--of course. But he seems to enjoy doing so, and we should be grateful he has just 506 posts in 6 years. Plus consider his moniker.

Sox WAR's this morning (July 30): Devers 4.2 Bogey 3.8 Story 2.1 Vazquez 1.7 JDM 1.0 Refsnyder .6 Kike .3 Davis .2 Wong -.1 Duran -.2 Cordero -.3 Verdugo -.3 Arroyo -.3 Plawecki -.6 Downs -.6 JBJ -.7 Dalbec -.9 If you adds the plusses--13.9--and then subtract the minuses--4.0, the net is +9.9. The Sox are ranked 11th in MLB in runs scored and 11th in team OPS. If you add up all the plus DWAR's, you get +3.7. The minus DWAR's add up to -4.7, so the Sox net DWAR as a team is -1.0. The positive pitching WAR's add up to +12.4, the negative add up to -3.8, with a net of + 8.6. Nevertheless, the team ERA is 4.32 and ranked 24th in MLB.

Exactly the way I feel. Ineptitude in every single phase of the game.

I will never be "all in" on signing anyone in this day and age when Juan Soto, age 23, just sneered at $440M as chump change. Based on that, Devers is going to want $500M and Bogey probably $250M. And this reminder one more time: this year's Sox have JDM, Devers, Bogey, and Story and they are getting beat like a drum in the AL East. Before you say, "but Devers and Story are on the IL," 2 points. First, injuries are part of baseball. Second, the Sox had everybody back in April-May and were getting stomped right and left. Last year the Sox had Bogey (OPS .863), Kike (.786), Devers (.890), JDM (.867), Renfroe (.816), Dugo (.777), short-timer Iglesias (.915), short-timer Schwarber (.957), and even a viable Dalbec (.792). This year it's pretty much Devers (.981--better than last year), Bogey (.841--down from last year), and JDM (.843--down from last year). And three good hitters are never enough.

While I can agree John Henry might not be a good guy in person, the fact that he is a coldhearted and successful businessman is probably why the Sox have been so successful under him. The scene at Fenway Park near the end of the movie Moneyball is probably not what really happened, but it does have a line that resonates when the John Henry character says that one of the nice things about having money is you don't have to do what everyone else is doing. It is kind of amazing that, after an 86 year drought, the JH regime not only ended the Curse, but brought home more WS wins--4-- in those 20 or so seasons than any other team in MLB. During those same 20 years (2003 thru 2022) the Yankees and Dodgers, both franchises with bigger ballparks, bigger fanbases, and plenty of money, have combined for a total of 3 WS wins.

Not only well-rested. Despite my recitation of those "short" seasons, I believe Sale is one of the most determined Sox pitchers ever. I think that skinny physique betrays him.

Sale is in fact frail. This is his 5th season with the Sox and these are his innings pitched: 214 in 2017 158 in 2018 (but with an ERA of 2.11) 147 in 2019 (ERA 4.40) 0 in 2020 42 in 2021 5.2 in 2022 He's 6'6" and weighs 183 lbs and hasn't been able to pitch a full season since 2017.

FWIW, here are the WAR's of the guys in last night's lineup-- Duran CF 0.0 Refsnyder DH +0.9 Verdugo LF -0.6 Bogaerts SS +3.3 Vazquez C +1.7 Cordero 1b -0.4 Dalbec 3B -1.0 JBJ RF -0.3 Sanchez 2B 0.0

Great win, well earned. My thanks moonslav and Thunder for emphasizing the positive on page 1 of this game thread.

I don't think that at all. You and moonslav put the rest of us to shame with all our whining, moaning, and groaning. Hope all is well with you.

Sale is the most professional pitcher I've ever seen in a Sox uniform. That said, he was not quite the ace we expected. In some games he absolutely was, but as the 2017 and 2018 seasons wore on, he lost something come August/September. In the 2018 postseason the Sox played 11 games, and Sale's contribution was 15.1 innings and 7 earned runs for a postseason ERA of 4.17. In the 2017 postseason he pitched 9.2 inning and gave up 9 earned runs, so he actually improved in 2018. The next four freaking seasons--2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022--have accumulated a total WAR of 3.2. In other words, busts. I think that skinny frame is the problem, but obviously not when the liner he is left little finger.

Exactly. Let me add that Juan Soto, age 23, just turned down the insultingly lowball offer of $420M from the Washington Nationals. Devers is 25 and has demonstrated far more value than Soto. What makes anyone on Talksox think Raffy's agent isn't telling him to hold out for $500M?

While I do agree one player, pitcher or position player, can make a real difference, I also think they can't do it without being surrounded by a bunches of good players. You need a good lineup and a good pitching staff. Right now the Angels have two of the best players in MLB. Both have won AL MVP awards. And the Angels are 15 games below .500. Based on the above, I would argue right now I simply do not see the point of trying to keep Bogey, JDM, or Raffy. All three are on this team right now, and this team stinks. And please don't give me that, "but what about the injuries" crap because injuries are absolutely part of the game. Do you remember Mark Bellhorn who played 2b/3b on the 2004 team? He batted .264 and had an OBP of .373 and an OPS of .817--and sometimes batted 9th on that team.

Excellent point. My assessment is that these Sox are getting better every single day. Moreover, I am hereby challenging all you doubting thomases. I predict the Sox are going to win another game this season. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

The comeback continues! Now two straight losses by margins less than 10 runs. This Sox team has no quit in them. Those 3 errors were all bad calls by the scorers.

Bogey has had a good defensive game--heck, a good defensive season. Hitting lags, but who needs a good hitting SS when they can get the real things, a steady, not too flashy guy who can get the big single now and then? Well, maybe not big singles in terms of driving runs in.

Vazquez with a sweet K with a man on 3d base and one out. But Mr. DH (his best position) Verdugo drives Duran home with a solid single.

Big rookie mistake by Duran. If he would just copy Verdugo, he would have known to stand at the plate and watch that ball awhile to see it was a dinger--and then trot down to first base.

Last night I spoke/wrote too soon because this game could be another 10 run loss, to say nothing of an absolutely abysmal display of lousy baseball by the Sox.

He got lucky--perfect GIDP ball except it was hit right in the hole.