Maxbialystock

Sox scoreless in 1st with this lineup-- Refsnyder LF Turner 1B Devers 3B Duvall CF Yoshida LF Arroyo 2B Dugo RF Reyes SS Alfaro C There's apparently a huge Reyes fan club on talksox, so I figure the Sox win this one easily. Even better, no Kike, who singlehandedly destroyed the Sox and is now about to do the same to the foolish Dodgers.

Already started . . . Bernardino (L) vs. Alexander (L)

I said it, but later I corrected myself because Kike was the starting SS at the beginning of the season. I believe he got the job because, with Story on the IL and Bogey gone, he figured Kike was the best bet because of his hitting. As for Reyes, I agree he's probably better than Kike--certainly his WAR is--but the Sox were 11-15 in games he played in May and June. Plus the injuries. Plus Chang is getting all the starts since Reyes returned. You and others insist Kike is a loser, pure and simple. But the Sox won more games than they lost with him in the lineup--and also won more games than they lost when he didn't play. Plus, if he is loser, why did the Dodgers, who once again are leading the NL West, sign him?

My brain hurts from thinking about all the options. But overall I agree: 1) this is a good Sox team that will get better, especially when/if Story and Sale return as their better selves; 2) they have a good shot at the postseason; 3) and starting pitching should be what Bloom goes after and not--in Paxton's case--trade away.

I keep hearing that number as though it proves something. Is it an overpay in terms of his less than stellar production? Absolutely. But it pales in comparison to what the Yankees paid Ellsbury and what he delivered and the Sox paid Sandoval and what he delivered. Kike stayed healthy the whole season and was ready to play baseball, errors and lousy OPS no extra charge. Furthermore, if Kike is such a freaking disaster, why are the AL West leading Dodgers taking over the remainder of his salary for the last two months?

OK. I guess I get it. The internet is different because we are incognito and can be as provocative and nasty as we want to be. I come from the perspective of John Milton's Areopagitica, written in 1644 to defend freedom of speech, open discussions, and exploration of all kinds of ideas. Talksox actually does manage to do just that most of the time--within the confines of Red Sox baseball, of course. But, as moonslav and others are suggesting, some contributors drop by just to toss out a few molotov cocktails. They come from the same school as those who spin endless conspiracy theories and other nonsense on the internet.

The Sox won more games than the lost (I think 44-41) with Kike in the lineup. July has been a great month for the Sox, and lousy, stinking, rotten Kike--the guy everyone wanted DFA'd months ago--played in 12 July games before departing--and the Sox won 8 of them. Plus, as soon as he joined the Dodgers, who are leading the NL West, they installed him in the middle infield, where he played for the Sox. I do not disagree that Kike was not nearly as good as expected this year. His overall WAR with the Sox was -0.7, mostly because of his rotten hitting (OPS .599). But he was playing out of position and moved to the infield only because the Sox were desperate. Story has been on the IL 3 months now, and Chang and Reyes were both on the IL for I'm guessing a month apiece: Chang has played in 33 games out of 104 and Reyes in 28 games.

You are dreaming if you are counting on Sale, Houck, and Whitlock. Sale, I grant you, looks like he is headed back, maybe even in early August. Plus before the shoulder went bad, he had like 8 solid starts out of 11. However, I think we need to count him has fragile until proven otherwise. Houck and Whitlock are now expected back in September, not August. Plus they both had ERA's over 5. Whitlock has never been a consistent starter and neither has Houck. In fact, our four best starters--by a wide margin--right now are Bello, Paxton, Crawford (yes, Crawford), and Pivetta (who starts in the 2d or 3d inning, which seems to work beautifully).

Great game despite outcome. Paxton's gutsy start--1 run in 5 IP--was overcome by Sox lousy bullpen and, until the incredible 9th inning rally around Duran's fantastic clutch double, and weak hitting. I do not believe Jansen can be good 2 nights in a row because this has happened before this season. He was terrific last night, but he relies too much on that fastball, which is what Davis was looking for. And a terrific 5 game winning streak!!! Get 'em tomorrow. Devers is 0 for 8 in San Francisco, but coming into tonight his OPS for July was 1.101.

Giants bullpen has looked awfully good so far. Sox bullpen not. Bleier gave up a clean single, HBP'd the next guy, tried to take out Devers fielding the bunt and throwing to 1b but failed, gave up a hard hit grounder which Arroyo fielded but which still drove home around, and then finally got a ground out.

Looks like Bleier's instructions were to give 'em something to hit.

Manaea's ERA is 5.58 in 70 innings, but shutting the Sox lineup down for 3 freaking innings was a walk in the park for him.

Like I--and I alone on this game thread--said. Commendable in the clutch situations. 5 innings, 1 run--despite 8 hits and 2 BB's. I hope we keep him.

I find him to be commendable. Yes, hits, but no dingers, and he does bear down in the tough situations. He singlehandedly has kept the Sox in this game. The other 9 guys who go to the plate, not so much.

Devers now 0 for 5 vs. the Giants.

I'm getting the Fox feed on mlb.com, but can't get it on cable, which has the Yankees @ Baltimore.

Duran LF Turner DH Devers 3B Casas 1B Duvall CF Verdugo RF Arroyo 2B Wong C Chang SS Yoshida out, Arroyo in. Weaker lineup than last night, but Casas is moved up to #4.

Different point of view. What I don't like is when we get into verbal battles filled with insults. I've been in a couple and regretted them. In his latest (above), he commends Cora/Bloom for keeping Casas in the lineup and for sending Kike to the Dodgers. He blames Bloom for not getting pitching, which I suspect a number of talksoxers would agree with. Wacha and Eovaldi are thriving this year on other teams. So is ERod. Kluber is not for the Sox. I am fine with Bloom because I do see progress and, more importantly, I believe John Henry has given him guidance on obtaining starting pitching.

I agree. I'm pretty sure I read Mad Stork's posts whenever they show up, and so far have incurred little or no mental or physical damage.

Boy, is that true.

Impressive numbers--and research.

The Sox won more games than they lost with Kike in the lineup. I think he got the starting SS job because two years ago his OPS was .786 (but just .629 last year) and Cora, like other Sox managers, wants good bats more than good gloves. Kike's DWAR with the Sox this season, by the way, was +0.3. His overall WAR, however, was -0.7, mostly because his OPS was .599. Cora did recognize that both Reyes and Chang were more reliable SS's--primarily because Kike's throws from the SS position were erratic--but both have been on the IL this year and Kike has not. I completely agree that Kike is better at 2b than SS, which is why that's where he played after Chang returned and where he is playing with the Dodgers. I also agree it's good that he's gone now that both Chang and Reyes are back--plus Turner has shown some flair at 2b--but at the same time insist that the Dodgers would never have taken him back if he was the complete loser you paint him to be. You usually make a lot of sense, but your characterizations of both Kike and Cora are just wrong.

One problem Bloom (and other teams' executives) has/have right now is that 22 teams can legitimately claim to have a shot at a wild card or better. That means 22 buyers and 8 sellers, which is a lousy ratio if you are a buyer. Way, way too much competition. I've made a big deal (and been shot down) about the fact that starting August 4 the Sox play 48 games with just 2 days off, which will definitely be a strain on the pitching as currently configured. The Sox have 3 starters, Pivetta pitching long after someone else (preferably lefty Bernardino) starts and goes an inning or two, and a bullpen game. I don't think that will work for those 48 games. I am also not optimistic about the returning arms. Kluber will never start again for the Sox. Houck and Whitlock are both more likely to return in September than in August, plus both have ERA's over 5. Sale could be back in a week or two (apparently the shoulder has healed), which is great, but we can't be sure that he can stay healthy and/or pitch the way he did for roughly 8 starts this season. Given all of the above, I do not envy Bloom's situation. It's a bad time to buy, but there is also in my view a compelling need for another starter.

Good points. A quick look at the current standings says that 22 of 30 MLB teams can legitimately claim to have a good shot at a wild card (or a division title of course). At 56-48 Miami is definitely in the hunt for a wild card. If the above is anywhere near factual, there are currently 22 buyers in MLB and 8 sellers. So just maybe right now is a great time to sell and not so great to buy.

Indeed.