Maxbialystock

Go ahead and count 2020 if you want to. It still has no effect on the simple fact that the 2021 season was better than 2016 or 2017. 2022 and 2023 were not good, agreed, but the 2012 season was much much worse and still average 36K+ attendance. As for the last three seasons, 2022-2024, I think the attendance of 32K+ has mostly been affected by the lack of stars, especially expensive ones. Americans have enormous respect for rich people even when it's unearned. That's why I keep calling the 2024 Sox the "no-names." Who wants to go see Duran, who only makes $760K? Or Houck, $770K? Or Crawford, $760K? Or Wong, Abreu, Slaten, Hamilton, Bernardino, Winck? Heck, Rafaela, even with his longer contract, is only getting $1.25M this year--and Bello $1.166.

Ahem. The "downward spiral" began in 2019 when the Sox had the biggest payroll in MLB and did not make the postseason. If you check, you will see the 2019 Sox had almost all of the lineup and pitching talent they had in 2018 when they won 108 games and the WS. If we skip 2020, the covid season, the 2021 season--without Mookie Betts and Price and Sale--was pretty successful, which you and others always ignore. The Sox won 92 in the regular season, beat Cole and the Yankees in the wild card, beat the 100 win Rays in the ALDS, and finally lost to the Astros, 4 games to 2, in the ALCS. That was in fact a better season than 2016 and 2017 when the Sox lost 3 straight in the ALDS both seasons. The actual downward spiral appears to have lasted two seasons, 2022 and 2023. Not coincidentally, the payroll has gone steadily down, in part because JH refuses to shell out big and long-term for great starting pitchers. Plus Mookie of course. However, the 2024 Sox appear to be on par with the 2021 Sox and better than the 2019 Sox who still had almost all of the great talent the 2018 Sox had--and certainly the massive payroll. Moreover, the 2024 Sox are missing Sale (given away), Giolito (hired to replace Sale), Story, and Whitlock. Nevertheless--despite the massive wailing in this game thread--the Sox pitching, over halfway through this season, is the best it's been in a long time with a team ERA, 3.65, ranked 5th in MLB. For reference, the 2018 Sox team ERA was 3.75, ranked 8th, and one of the most expensive pitching staffs in MLB with Price, Sale, Kimbrel, Porcello, Pomeranz, et al.

Absolutely no need to trade Mayer to keep Story. If Story is healthy, he is the answer at 2b as he was in 2022.

Terrific win. Houck looked sharp, and batters 5, 6, and 7 (Wong, Yoshida, and Abreu) combined for 8 of the Sox 10 hits, all 7 rbi's, and 3 dingers. Sox at 51-41, .554, and in the 3d wild card slot, 1.5 back of the Twins and 3.5 back of the Yankees. And 6 back of the Orioles. Do you believe that??!!! The case for investing in the team this month gets stronger and stronger.

I think it's better when you like the place where you live. I've lived in a bunch of places and fortunately liked most of them. Tabuk, not so much.

I think that's what mvp 78 just said. The "cool" part was ironic.

I think--without knowing for sure--that a righty hitter with a "reverse split" (meaning he hits righty pitcher better than lefty) isn't so rare. Why? Only 10% of humans are left-handed. I don't know what the carryover is among MLB pitchers, but I'm sure the great majority, if not 90%, are righties. Consequently, righty hitters have no choice but to develop an ability to hit righty pitchers. If the only pitchers you can hit are lefties, you aren't going to play much. The above also explains--in part--why so many right-handed players learn to hit from the left side. They can reasonably expect to face righty pitchers most of the time.

I remain astounded that Wong can continue to function at all--behind the plate and in this heat.

Good summary.

Good points! Iglesias was brilliant on defense at SS, but in 2013 the Sox had a shot at the postseason (they won the WS) and wanted a pitcher, who turned out to be Jake Peavy. Plus the Sox already had Stephen Drew starting at SS and Xander Bogaerts in the wings. He played 3b in the 2013 postseason, and became the Sox full-time SS in 2014. Iglesias went to Detroit and started at SS in the 2013 ALCS when the Sox beat Detroit, 4 games to 2. Moncada was traded in 2015/16 so the Sox could get Chris Sale.

Good point! His WAR for 94 games was 2.5. That was the last year of bold shifts, and Story seemed especially adept on the right side of the infield (and sometimes almost in the outfield). Nevertheless, his OPS of .737 was well below his lifetime .834. The other problem is that in 3 full seasons with the Sox he has played 94, than 43, and this year 8 games. That's a nasty trend which can't be blamed on falling off a bicycle or needing TJ surgery. In 2016 at age 33 (in August), Pedroia played 154 games with an OPS of .825 and a WAR of 5.6--an excellent season. The next year Machado slid into him hard with a clear intent to take him out, and Pedey never came back from that.

I think you need to read the reports on Casas's so-called progress. The injury occurred on April 20, almost 3 months ago. The MRI on June 24 was "clean," but in fact everything he's done since that "clean" report has been tentative. He wanted to be back by July 2, but 2 August is more likely. There is no known treatment for this injury, which is supposed to heal "naturally." And it occurred because Casas was simply swinging a bat at a pitch, something he must do a lot of and vigorously so if he is to remain in MLB. I have yet to read anywhere of a MLB player having the same injury and fully recovering. Have you?

Tonight reaffirmed your last point, which I agree is key. I think it is no coincidence that the two longest-serving Sox SS's in the last 30 seasons--Garciaparra and Bogaerts--were both good righty bats with power. When Manny showed up, he was an even better righty bat and nobody cared how well he played LF.

This thread is about trades this month and I'd hate for the Sox to make a big deal to "fix" the 2b problem when next year they will probably have both Story and Mayer along with Hamilton, Rafaela, and possibly even Gonzalez.

Agree. DH can work either way--just one guy or several.

Yup.

Sox do not have as many good righty bats as they do lefty bats. Plus I thought Sears pitched a heckuva 5.2 innings. He gave up 1 run and so did their bullpen. And Pivetta gave up 4 runs in 6.2 innings.

I like these Sox, whom I consistently call the no-names because a bunch of them have just 1 or 2 years at the MLB level: Casas, Duran, Abreu, Rafaela, Wong, Bello, Hamilton, Gonzalez. I love the fact that they've taken 2 of 3 from the Phillies and 4 of 6 from the Yankees, that before this game they were 50-40, that the pitching has been way, way better than anyone expected, especially after Breslow dealt Sale away and brought in Mr. Nothing Giolito. But, unlike you, I recognize that the very nature of MLB makes it a great leveler in any given game or series. That's why the Sox were able to take 2/3 from the winningest team in MLB (Phillies), why the White Sox took 2 of 4 from us, and why the A's could very easily take this series. Interestingly, the Orioles, just like the Rays in years past, have 25th biggest payroll, $101M, and are leading the vaunted AL East and the 2d biggest payroll ($308M) Yankees. Our payroll is $182M and they've taken 5 of 6 from the Sox.

No problem. We got these guys because vegasbob keeps saying they are nowhere near our level of superb baseball. We're the real deal, and the A's are just AAAA. Most of their players belong in AAA and all of ours are the REAL DEAL. And just ignore that Winck came in and loaded the bases in the 8th with no one out.

The real eye-opener for me is not that the A's can hit, but that the Sox can't hit lefties. That was actually a good pitch Ref golfed over the monster--he just got lucky. So far in 16 innings, the A's have scored 13 runs and the Sox 13 runs. And vegasbob keeps insisting that the A's are a AAAA team, ybworthy to be on the same field of play with the Sox.

AAAA is a stupid and unfair label. The worst team by far this year is the White Sox, and they split 4 with the Red Sox. Last night the A's scored 9 runs in that loss--against what we all thought was a pretty decent Sox pitching staff. Tonight the A's are leading, 3-1, in the 7th and they definitely look like a MLB team whereas the Sox definitely do not. Whoops, there goes another rubber tree plant. Now the the A's are up 4-1.

Now a single by Wong. Too bad O'Neill K'd his 3d time up. Sears struck out 8 Sox players--each of them once--but not Westbrook, whose speed on the basepaths was not in tune with the Sox 3d base coach signals.

3d time thru the Sox order and Ref gets the dinger. Auspicious, we can hope.

And against a AAA team, too. Don't forget that.

Why? Do you think Big Papi was a failure? How about Ohtani this season? Perhaps you've read my quote about Jimmy Piersall, who said he wanted his salary doubled because he had to cover CF and LF when Ted Williams was in the Sox left field. So, in a way, Ted Williams was a semi-DH. So too Babe Ruth in RF for the Yankees.