Hitch

I worded my post badly. I was speaking in the abstract, rather than the literal. He had given two players on the opposite end of the spectrum and I was saying it is never an either/or choice to that extreme. I did see what Atlanta wanted and they have been routinely mocked for it from all quarters. That's Atlanta. Not the entire league. Although I agree the market isn't great at the moment for starting pitchers. But did us a favour? Give me a break. It might turn out to be a great trade for us. It might turn out a great trade for them. But nobody sound of mind could POSSIBLY make the argument they did us a favour. Do you have the quotes or links to DD saying that Hill and Pomeranz were literally the only two pitchers available? And the same for Oakland wanting Espinoza for Hill? It's not that I don't believe you but I'd like to see them for myself as I find that very hard to believe, even for Beane. Let me just reiterate again, I don't hate the trade. I was just saying why I think there are sound reasons to worry about this trade because the people who are, were being treated a little like they were anti-win and other such horseshit, about 20 pages ago when I made the post. Overall I'm on the side of the trade, but there are very big risks that come with it.

Well no, but lets not pretend the only options were just Hill or Pomeranz. I haven't read the rest of the thread yet but I'm sure people who have their opinions will have made them available. I was just saying I can understand why people are upset. The kid is a very highly rated and there are plenty of risks with the trade. Either way, I'm glad we made a move. And hopefully what we've seen this year is the real deal....

Possibly. My point is, I don't think it had to be Espinoza. Or, I should clarify, I think that's what some people's opinion is. I'm a little disappointed with the trade as it really is far from sure we have our worthwhile starter for Espinoza. I'm not against giving the kid up. If we got the right guy for the kid remains to be seen, however. But I'm certainly glad DD is making moves. Like UN said earlier, DD rarely comes down on the wrong side of these things so I have some optimism too.

This will definitely be tedious.

Come on, that's unfair on people and you know it. They didn't mind prospects being traded(they knew we'd have to suffer some pain to sort the pitching), but they didn't want Espinoza traded.

I can see why plenty of people are worried/upset about the trade. The kid looks like he has a very bright future ahead of him, and Pomernaz comes with so much uncertainty. That said, we all knew the pitching needed major help. The club is purring on offence and league leading in lots of ways but we are still 2 games out of first and sometimes feel like we are just hanging on in there. If the Pomeranz of this season is the real deal and he doesn't wear down through the extra work load, this is a great trade. But it's a big 'if'. As always, only time will tell if this is a great/good/middling/bad/WTF was you thinking? trade.

Not just Bradley's. Hanley took to laughing on two separate occasions at how bad the calls were on him. Some of them weren't even close last night.

Well yes we will always have variables but getting actual strikes right should be something they get right at the very least.

Are you actually comparing a proper and correct strike zone with automated 3rd Base coaches? Holy Jesus. At its very core a game/sport should be fair and just and everyone playing by the same rules. Skill and human error should always play out within the game but the rules by which everyone are playing should be exact for every one.

Exactly this. It's not one bad trip through the rotation. Our pitching has has been dodgy since the season started.

Hence my worrying about his health. I do hope he's bald otherwise it will have been an ever painful experience, these past couple of months.

That's why I said there are outliers. They happen of course. Jesus, you can do your ACL playing a round of golf. Which is basically a brisk walk for angry people. I'm not trying to play baseball down, in fact quite the opposite, but I would argue that it's major issues are with wear and tear with some impact injuries in there, which is reversed for other two sports mentioned. As I keep saying though, they are incomparable. All the sports are very tough on the body for differing reasons(in the main).

Snakes, they hear your footprints they scuttle off out there quick as their little legs will take them. Spiders, they see you, "Yeah what ya gonna do f*** head? That's right you keep walking back out the bathroom. It's my shower now."

A shattering stroke incoming for YOTN in 5...4...3...2...

We are 21st overall for ERA in the majors and 12th out of 15 in the AL. I don't think it's melodrama to say we have issues.

I stared down a lion* just less than a month ago. Fearless I am. f*** messing around with spiders though. That is CLEARLY a woman's job. Always has been. I'm suspicious of men who talk of handling spiders. Liars is what they are. Damned liars. *From about a mile away in a locked car with windows up and sunroof shut.

Maybe I should have been a bit more clear there. I mean impact wise in terms of injuries. What the rest of my post was saying is that they type of injuries and issues are very different in baseball to Hockey and Football. Baseball tends to be more wear and tear (although there are outliers of course) and the other sports tend to have injuries caused by the high impact side of the respective sports. As I say, it's impossible to compare really. And I'll fight you. I once threw a 43mph fastball so I obviously have a hell of a punch. My change up is rubbish though.

I don't think my post disputes, or even touches, on that.

Baseball is a wear down sport. The muscles wear down through constant use over 6 months. The muscle fibers that have been over stretched and worked, rip, and pull at ligaments making even more serious injuries an issue. It's an absolute bitch of a sport to play in that sense. And catchers and pitchers in particular...absolutely brutal. That said it's not as demanding impact wise as the other big 3. It's impossible to compare really as the stresses and reasons for injuries involved, are usually very different.

It looked absolutely horrible. How he hasn't broken it I'll never know... Hoping for the best, but a season ender it looked like at the time.

I don't think so. Our rotation is struggling badly. This team doesn't compete come the play offs unless it gets pitching help.

How about we just not trade any of JBJ, Bogearts or Betts and instead build the future of the franchise around 3 excellent and talented young players? We have plenty of trade chips should we need to pull the plug. Getting rid of any of those 3 would be madness at this point.

JBJ? As an aside, I cannot believe Farrell didn't have Clay up much earlier warming up last night. Kelly was done from the first inning. He had nothing.

He is struggling, but one thing with Hannigan - he seems to have a lot of good at bats. Makes the pitcher work for his out.

Same here. I keep mentioning, but I didn't get into this sport until 3 and a bit years ago. Right at the beginning - the 2nd or 3rd game I watched - I had the game on in the background and was cooking at the same time and Remy said " You're just not going to get that call with this umpire" I looked up at the TV and the tracker showed a pitch that was center right. A little close to the edge but a strike all day long. I had to re-wind back the footage because I couldn't believe what I had just heard/seen. The fact the umpires work off their own interpretation of the strike zone, bewildered me then, and it still does now.