FredLynn

HAHAHAHA Entering the forum with a splash, eh Muggah? I think that the new GM is not going to grant Wakefield and Varitek charter membership in the "good 'ol boy network". The handwriting is on the wall for those two. Brady posted that Varitek could be given a three month contract then be made into a coach; that seems reasonable to me. Historically he has been decent, even good, for the first few months, before his age becomes a factor. Lavarnway is probably not quite ready yet, and I don't really see a catcher anywhere that can help us from outside the organization. And Varitek, for all his shortcomings as a catcher nowadays, would probably make a very good catcher's coach. Welcome aboard! IPOT and Orwell have promised to follow; others may too.

I would prefer a GM from outside the organization. This franchise needs to clean house and welcome new ideas. Epstein trained Cherington; it could be Theo redux if he becomes the GM.

I think we are probably about 2-3 years away right now. I cannot see an elite SP that is going to come available this year. CJ Wilson is not that guy. I remember that someone posted a list of SP FAs for after NEXT year, and that list is impressive. I would rather accept mediocrity next year and try to win a ring in 2013 than go after someone who isn't really the answer. Our problem is pitching; that much is obvious. I just don't see us solving that plus the clubhouse issues in one year, no matter who is managing or who the GM is. Also, in case anyone missed it, here is an article with some of the details of the scope of the clubhouse problems: http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2011/10/12/red_sox_unity_dedication_dissolved_during_epic_late_season_collapse/?p1=News_links

While I will certainly not miss Epstein, I do appreciate his role in winning two rings. Its time for a change though. I wish him the best of luck, as I do Francona.

Both Epstein and Francona were responsible for the me me me and anything goes attitude in the clubhouse. Those factors played as big a role as our lack of pitching in our failures this year. Once those two are gone rebuilding can commence, assuming we get the right people in those positions.

Yes, we would/should have made it into the playoffs. But just how far would we have gone? Not far at all IMHO. We finished NINTH in overall pitching in the league this year. How were we going to make a serious run with guys like Lackey, Wakefield, Albers, Miller, Morales, and Weiland on the staff? And who is responsible for our pitching staff being in such dire straits? Thats right: Theo Epstein. He really isn't a very good judge of FA talent at all.

Yeah, and thanks for Cameron, Lackey, Crawford, Lugo, Renteria, Smoltz, Penny, Gagne, Clement, Schoenweiss, Wakefield over the past two years and all the rest of the dregs you have allowed to wear the Sox uniform. Cherington should not be hired; he is an insider. If we want the me me me attitude to end, the new GM should come from outside the organization.

So do his results. This guy just doesn't know when to hang them up. Of course, as he says, "The fans deserve to see me go for the all time Red Sox win record" for pitchers. He exemplifies the me me me attitude that cost this team the playoffs this year. The only way he comes back is if Epstein comes back because that selfish jerk is part of the good 'ol boy network and Epstein doesn't have the good judgement to let him go.

I thought we were discussing THIS year. Over his career its clear that Lester has been better. This year he was not the ace of the team, and as I said, I don't care what happened in 2010. Frankly, neither guy is what we need for a #1 IMO. Both are very good #2s for a playoff team hoping for a ring.

Good debate..gotta split for the sunset run.

Aces do better when it really matters than to lay an egg for half of his starts when his team really needs him to show up. Lester is a good pitcher; I am glad he is on our team. He is our #2 SP, but he is certainly not an ace. Beckett was our ace this year. Lester: 15-9, 3.47 (17th in the AL) Beckett: 13-7, 2.89 (5th in the AL) These numbers are not small sample sizes. Beckett was our ace this year, not Lester. Lester isn't even an ace on his own team.

Lets look at what Lester did in September more closely. He had six starts and lasted more than six innings twice when he lasted seven innings each time. In half of his starts he last 5, 4, and 2.2 innings. Against the Yankees and the Rays he was 0 and 4 in September. He surrendered at least four runs in half his start. He won just once in September and lost five times. His ERA was over 5. Thats not the profile of an ace on my team.

Not agreeing with someone is not the same as ignoring them. His opinion certainly has validity; I just don't agree with him. If he were being ignored there would be no dialogue.

Lets get back to THIS year, the ONLY year that matters. In September, when his team really needed him, his ERA was 5.40 with a record of 1-5. Some ace. In fact, in Aug and Sept combined his ERA was over 4. Aces lead the team; they are at their best when the team needs them the most. Lester has never been a consistent ace. Beckett has. The others on my list have too. Not Lester. Maybe some day.

I don't care now what he did in 2007 or 2008. I care what he did THIS year. Thats the nature of the game. You know that. Its very much a "what have you done for me lately" game. More names, with the above caveat: Sabathia, Hamels, Weaver, Kershaw, Kennedy, Shields, and even Beckett are all better than Lester this year. Lester was good-35th in ERA in baseball. Maybe we are discussing a difference in definitions. A SP can be the best on his team and still not be a true ace. I would say that even on our team this year Lester was not the ace; Beckett was, despite his September. I do not agree that Lester excelled last year. Sorry.

I think we could have made the playoffs if we had grabbed BOTH Bedard AND Harden-barely. But we would have been bounced pretty quickly anyway. Frankly, I am glad it turned out this way. This FORCES our owners to act. That has started with the firing (yes, he WAS fired) of Francona, and it must continue with the firing of our GM, our strength and conditioning staff, and our medical staff (they should have ordered an MRI on Buchholtz in July, when his symptoms started and not waited until August when the test was done and showed a fracture which, if diagnosed and treated in a timely manner, would have allowed him to return in September and yes, I am a doctor; and they blew it with Ellsbury last year too). Anyone who thinks that this current ninth place staff will somehow turn it around to be in the top four is in fantasyland. Wholesale changes are needed. Picking up CJ Wilson, the top FA SP this year, will be insufficient and, frankly, I do not trust Epstein to make the proper choices in the selection of ANY FAs because of his track record with them. If we can get a new competent GM the rebuilding process for our pitching staff and to a lesser extent the position players can begin. Drew will need to be replace; Youkilis cannot withstand the rigors of 3B; and Ortiz is too concerned about ME ME ME and his contract for my liking. We have issues at catcher as well; Salty will need someone to help him out; Varitek is finished. I think that as the team now stands we could make the playoffs next year, but we cannot win a ring until the pitching staff is fixed.

Forsythe, let me clarify: I do think that we have the players to MAKE the playoffs. What I was referring to is being a factor once we get in. A team can bash its way into the postseason, but you must have good to excellent pitching to hope to contend for a ring. Lets look at who we have: Beckett/Lester: serviceable #2-3 SPs, but certainly not aces Buchholtz: one great year, thats it. An X factor. Lackey: the worst SP in baseball and we are stuck with him Wakefield: he will be back if Epstein remains. Part of "the good 'ol boy network" Bard will likely become our closer when Papelbon leaves, and its likely, IMO, that he will take the best deal which probably won't be offered by us. Aceves: could start. Thats really where he belongs, but his results as a SP have not been nearly as good as as a reliever Albers: are you kidding me? Reverted to his career norms late in the year Wheeler: likely gone at $3M/y Jenks: yup, he's ours. Signed for another year. Morales: inconsistent Atchison: up and down from Pawtucket. Good mop up guy, but not good for much else DiceK: gone until August at least. Unlikely to pitch again for the team, fortunately Bowden, Tazawa, Doubront etc: have proven nothing so far. I think thats a fair assessment. Remember: we finish NINTH in the AL in overall ERA. While its possible that some guys could have career years, I am not counting on it. As far as the offense goes, we will score a lot of runs, even with Crawford performing poorly, and even with Gonzalez fattening up his statistics against lower tier clubs (except the Rangers) and choking against the Rays and Yankees and Tigers. As I said, we can bash our way into the playoffs, perhaps, but that will be worth nothing if our pitching staff cannot stop the other guys from scoring. That WILL NOT HAPPEN with the current pitching staff. Period.