DocHolliday

My thoughts exactly. Hopefully we can all enjoy some semblance of the baseball we became spoiled with during that time period in the near future. The book was a great read and, despite the mudslinging at ownership, highlights a misguided period following a period of great success. At the end of the day, the organization still has a lot to prove before the majority of us will give them the benefit of the doubt they received during the 04-08 period.

For me, their spree falls somewhere in between. A number of the fill in pieces have significant health concerns - either based on their history, their age, mileage, or some combination of all of those. They gave up a ton of cost controlled, talented pieces to get the additions and will end up looking like fools if they don't win big in the next 2 years. Then again, a failure will go much less noticed in Toronto than it will if the Dodgers spending spree fails to bear success.

Also have to consider what the Mets would want in return. Based on the RA Dickey trade for a pitcher in a similar contract and age situation, I'm sure they wouldn't just settle for players like Iglesias, Kalish, or Brentz. They'd most likely ask for one of the B's or a Felix Doubront. If Farrell has any say in personnel decisions, I'm sure he'd share the same opinion about trading Doubront for Santana as he did several years back when it was Ellsbury and Lester to the Twins for Santana. Also have to consider how much $ the Mets would pick up.

Bold statement. I think Farrell will have a bigger impact on a guy like Doubront in his development (as he did with Lester and Buchholz as they went through their early years). At this point, I feel Farrell will play a more minor role in Lester and Buchholz bouncing back - but I feel both will bounce back next season, assuming health. Lester will simply have to regress back to his career averages and peripherals due to better luck on things like BABIP. Buch will be a full season beyond his 2011 back ailments and will have to be more consistent from start to finish. From my perspective, the Red Sox have the biggest number of question marks isolated in one area of the team (rotation) whereas the Yankees have less pressing question marks that are spread over all areas of their team. Say what you want about the mediocrity and cost of the FA position players, but the Red Sox position players as a group appear to be much less volatile than the Yankees current group of position players. Same thing with the bullpen, particularly when you consider how Soriano stepped up last year when Mo was lost for the year. Even if Mo comes back and is vintage Mo again, I still like the depth the Sox have in the middle and set up relief better than what the Yankees can throw out there.

I like the idea of taking gambles on guys like Santana on short term deals. In this particular case, I just don't like the idea of 3 LH starters in the Red Sox rotation with 81 games in Fenway Park.

I could see them signing Stephen Drew on an Adrian Beltre 1 year pillow contract to add to their "deep depth" at SS. They need a bit more LH balance in their lineup and could trade Drew at the deadline if they are out of it. This would allow Iglesias to start the year at Pawtucket and get some more PA and fine tune his offensive approach. Also opens up the possibility of trading some of their depth at C, bullpen, and SS additional for rotation depth (where they have the most health and performance risk).

That "chip on the shoulder" attitude has certainly played a role in the last few seasons. In addition to the last 3 WS champs, each year featured atleast 2 additional teams that either made the playoffs or stayed competitive for the majority of the season (2010 Twins and Padres, 2011 Guardians and Diamondbacks, and the group of teams we saw surprise this past season). When you consider the extra WCs and the increasing parity throughout the league, it's not entirely out of the realm for a team like the 2013 Red Sox to surprise people like some of the previous teams did (who shared some of the same characteristics and expectations going into their seasons). Looking around the AL, there doesn't appear to be a juggernaut team who's a shoe in to the playoffs. The Angels pitching is suspect after Weaver. Oakland's lineup is certainly suspect. The Rangers lost their best player from the last few seasons who would've been their best player in 2013. KC and the White Sox should give the Tigers a reasonable fight for the Central and we all know the East is wide open. At the very least, we should expect an improvement over the Sox squad that ended last season. But if we finally get that long awaited season of better health, career averages from core players, and a few players currently in the minors who fill supportive roles on the big league club, it shouldn't be too unreasonable to expect a competitive team.

Still early, but I really don't see a clear favorite in the division right now. Baltimore's rotation lacks the clear number one and their bullpen severely overachieved last season, particularly in close games. It wouldn't surprise me to see them drop back 8 wins just from their bullpen regressing to its average output. Toronto added a lot of pieces, but I'm skeptical of their collective ability to stay healthy over a full season. Reyes, Johnson, and Morrow have all missed significant time to injuries in recent years. They need all of their acquisitions AND core pieces like Bautista and Encarnacion to stay healthy and produce over the better part of a full season. For me, they don't have the necessary depth options to fill in if someone goes down (lots of prospects traded away). Tampa Bay will miss Shields innings and production this season, and will have to get more from Price, Hellickson, and Moore to help make up for the void. Not sure how much more they can get from Price after the season he had, so the rest of the rotation will have to step up. I think they'll be improved offensively, particularly if Myers is called up mid season, but they will still rely heavily on their pitching. The Yankees certainly aren't done shaping their team for next year, but their roster has question marks in every aspect of the game. They'll be counting on Kuroda and Pettite to give them significant production despite their age. Sabathia has logged a ton of innings over the last few seasons and has health questions going forward. Lots of questions on the left side of the IF and in the OF. Questions with the back end of the bullpen as well assuming Soriano leaves. At this point, I'd have to give the edge to Tampa Bay since they seem to have the fewest question marks. I can see the Yankees and Jays doing well if their question marks stay healthy. Still a little early to start assessing the potential for each team though. I still feel a major move is coming for the Red Sox and the Yankees certainly aren't finished.

If he can put up a .650 OPS and play solid defense, that would be a large boost- particularly to ground ball pitchers on the staff like Buchholz and Dempster.

If one of the pitching prospects emerges over the course of that contract, they will find a spot for him in the rotation. Given all of the health questions surrounding the rotation, I wouldn't be surprised if they utilized a 6 man rotation at different times next season. Still time for them to entertain trades to improve other areas of the team that could involve them trading Doubront.

Very good point - and I'd argue the last 3 years should have proven this to most fans, but especially last year. I have a big sigh of relief today knowing we weren't the team that went the distance for Hamilton. Several times, I expressed my issues with him and feel he isn't the difference maker most want to portray him as. Even with Hamilton, there are a lot of holes on this team that won't be filled until the prospects emerge. With fewer and fewer impact players making it to FA at the beginning of their prime years, the emphasis will be developing talent and locking that talent up early on and eliminating arbitration and early FA eligibility years. Keeping the financial flexibility will allow the organization to sign core players and key veterans when their current contracts expire (Pedroia). To me, this is a much better use of resources and a much better model for remaining competitive than relying on dwindling talent in FA.

Trumbo would be a great return for Ellsbury- but he's probably best suited for LF at Fenway Park. I guess you could platoon Kalish and Gomes in RF, but Gomes would be awful defensively.

Ellsbury's value might have just gone up quite a bit.

I can breathe a lot easier now. Knowing I was pretty vocal about Hamilton's shortcomings, I suppose I would have been ok with a 3 year deal. If I'm Cherington, I'm on the phone with Jon Daniels right now asking for Martin Perez.

Furthering my attempt to understand the interest in Dempster, they seem to have changed their view on trying to find players who are suited to fit into the pressure cooker of the Boston market. Nothing about Dempster's personality or the places he's played gives me the sense he's more or less fit for the market than any other available player. Maybe the other guys on the FA are less suited to play in Boston? In either case, I'd say there's not enough to sway Dempster as the better fit, even if he was far and away better suited from a character standpoint.

What baffles me the most about the interest in Dempster is the Sox public statements about being hesitant to commit to players after age 35. The only way this makes sense is if they sign another FA starter whose younger with more potential or they make a trade for a high ceiling pitching prospect who's awfully close to ML ready. They are absolutely fooling themselves if they think the 4 guys they have in spots now will combine for 800 IP. I would not be surprised if ANY group of 4 starters from the last 5 years failed to combine to pitch 800 innings. Only in 1 season, 2004, did all 5 starters make all of their starts. On top of that, they have 1 guy returning from TJ surgery, another starter who barely topped 150 IP (and dropped off considerably after 100 IP), and another guy who has never pitched 200 innings in a season and is only a season removed from serious back issues. "Deep depth" is what LL coined would be necessary for the roster for next season. To this point, I feel foolish for believing that he was speaking on behalf of the FO and stating they had finally figured out a part what it would take to get this team back on track. From what I've seen so far, this is beginning to look more like "deep s***".

If they are going to go 3 years on a pitcher, why are they not considering someone younger, more consistent, and more proven in the AL than Dempster? Even if they had to go 4, it seems to make a lot more sense to me to go after a Sanchez or Jackson than it does Dempster on 3 years. Even spell check disagrees with Dempster and is trying to correct it to "dumpster" each time I type it. Puts a whole new spin on "dumpster diving" doesn't it?

As an aside, my frustration with the organizations approach to improving the pitching has helped stray this thread into an unrelated topic - so I'll try to steer it back. I'm beginning to feel that the FO needs to give some more idea as to the holdup of this deal. 2007 was many years ago, but if I remember correctly, the public was pretty much aware of the fact that the holdup in Drew's announcement was the medical language and that there was a team of doctors and lawyers who spent the better part of December and January hashing it out. To the best of my understanding, we have no definitive reason as to why the Napoli deal is being held up. It's seems necessary at this point for a report to come out that ends the confusion.

No worries Jung. My overall point is that sometimes you have to take chances on those types of players, particularly when you are a last place team with pieces to trade that other teams want, who aren't going to be part of your LT future. The current Red Sox fit the bill of a team that should have been involved in this type of deal (market size aside, the Guardians fit the bill as well). If we had more trust in the FO, I'd be willing to bet that more of us would say "oh, Bauer just wasn't their guy. We trust their judgment." Problem is they've given us multiple reasons to lose our trust in them recently. To this point in this offseason, they've done nothing to gain most of our trust in them back.

I'd be willing to bet their discussions of which strategy to take are very similar to the debates WE are having on this board about what they should do - because there is no clear answer. There's nothing wrong with having internal discussions and debates about what direction should be taken - as long as it doesn't interfere with collaborating together and adapting the strategy as the market unfolds on a unified front. At this point, we all should hope that they are keeping quiet as a posture to add leverage to whatever their plan is. But our collective brains can't give them the benefit of the doubt that we could in 08 or even 09, when they were coming off a great run of more than a couple of seasons.

I'm comparing the current Bauer to the pre-03 Beckett. The guy who was a raw talent with no postseason success who was widely thought of as a great talent with a need to harness control and with a competitive, but arrogant and, at times, dogmatic outlook on work ethic and what needs to be done to compete at the highest level. Despite all of those perceptions, Beckett, for a time, was able to step to the next level- largely because of his young age, his immense talent, and his drive to win. Once he won in Boston, I feel he lost a lot of that drive, and that loss coincided with his aging and dismissing talent. Coupled with some injury plagued seasons, we all witnessed the fall from the top at the end of 07. The FO saw the same thing, but decided to extend him in hopes that he would return to something similar to the '07 form or transform him into a pitcher capable of getting hitters with pinpoint control and execution, ala Curt Schilling. Many of us were against the extension at the time, and it turned out to be worse than even the most negative views could have expected. Luckily, he's the Dodgers problem now.

IMO, they shouldn't be trying to create "buzz" as much as they should be trying to make solid baseball moves. Making more of the solid baseball moves than the poor baseball moves to create offseason "buzz", as they have in recent years, will be a step towards generating the only buzz that really matters in the long run. Thats an exciting, winning baseball team in the regular season that begins as a team that can compete for a playoff spot, and eventually becomes a perennial playoff participant with a chance to win the WS. Moves like the Bauer trade are the types of moves this team should be involved in when they are in the position they are in. To our knowledge, they haven't been involved with nearly the amount of moves many of us expected them to be in, based on the results on the field AND their own admissions regarding improvement. Their recent track record putting together teams (on the field, but with off the field distractions in recent years) takes the benefit of the doubt away for the majority of the fans until they prove otherwise capable.

It's easy for all of us to remember the guy Beckett was when he left town. What we forget is that he was, at one point, very similar to where Bauer is now- where he didn't have any WS rings. Despite all of his attitude problems and location issues early in, he played a major part in winning the WS for the Marlins in '03 and basically put the Sox on his back in '07. Its not completely out of the realm of possibility that Beckett lost his competitive fire and drive in the final years in Boston (he even hinted to it in SP saying baseball was no longer his number 1 priority). Hindsight makes it easy to see where the Sox made the mistake with Beckett in offering him the extension in 2010. But despite all of his attitude problems, he did a lot of good things here early on when the drive was still there. I'm sure the Guardians feel the command issues are part of maturing and the drive to win at all costs will be there despite the attitude issues. Not saying Bauer is the only solution in solving the Red Sox pitching problems, but he was certainly one of the few available pieces with top of the rotation ability.

It seems that absolutely no reason has been going on for quite some time now. Until they give us a significant period of time where they make better decisions than they have in the past, all we are left to do is continue to hope- while building up more anger and hostility towards their apparent incompetence. The longer they leave us in the dark, the more ground they will have to make up, IMO.

I agree with this 100%. Historically, the Red Sox have had no problem putting players on the field who help the offense. Fenway certainly plays a role there. It's also clear that the years they have been successful have been the years when they've gotten the better pitching performances from their staff. This is why it baffles me that they aren't being mentioned more in trade talks and FA negotiations for pitching improvement. My hope is that they have multiple plans for addressing the pitching and are purposely appearing quiet in the public eye to help increase their leverage.