jung

Well that is just perfect now isn't it. Of course he accepted. He would have to be dead and to stupid to fall over not to. So far this is shaping up to be the Sox of old. Be prepared for a string of 12-8 losses.

Well one thing I did not even realize because the articles I read must have been posted just before they did this but apparently they managed to bust the tax limit in 2010 by a lousy $1.5M. First time they had done it since 2007. One thing I have often said, if you are down to 0% tax and bust the cap for the first time from 0% don't bust it small cause that is going to be lowest rate you are going to pay. Don't know how they managed to bust it by so little but I can't believe they planned it that way. Now I have to back and check the numbers for 2011. The last time I had done that they were slightly under (perfect) and remember they had messed around with the timing of AGons contract so that it would not count in the 2011 numbers. So now I don't trust my 2011 numbers either. If they also busted the tax cap in 2011 they are really up the creek without a paddle as it would really limit the likelihood that they would bust it this year as well.

The Sox have been focusing on star signings that make for big PR for years now. That is how they got into this mess. The best evidence that this was only in part Theo's doing is that they are still doing it now. Giving Ortiz arbitration was the Christmas present of a lifetime and the idiot FO move of all time.

The Sox are checking in with this one and looking at that one....what a bunch of BS. They have themselves boxed by the stupid arbitration offer to Ortiz and are stuck on pins and needles waiting to see what he does....dumb....dumb....dumb

Did not like the decision to offer him arbitration when they made and like it less and less the more the press is floating the idea that the Sox will not bust the luxury tax cap this season. If they were never going to bust the cap this season how in God's name can they justify paying Ortiz 1/14 with enough pitching holes to drive a truck through. Frankly, if Ortiz takes 1/14 and the Sox do not bust the cap I would call that about the dumbest front office move I have seen in a good long time. They are going nowhere without pitching and you can't buy much pitching with $8-9M to spend. If they are lucky Ortiz will be stupid enough to reject arbitration. Frankly he would be doing the Sox a monster favor to do so.

I agree with 700. For me it was like the real Mets finally showed up and so did the real Red Sox. For me in some ways even Bucky F***ing Dent was worse then the Mets fiasco. Both pail in comparison to the collapse of 2011.

I actually don't know what they would have done with those two guys at that point...they seemed so beaten down and lacking in confidence. If they had to come in with runners on I think they night dug a hole right out in the middle infield and climbed in.

Yes I realize it was not an issue of replacing Lackey but the Sox would have had to move somebody around in order to drop Aceves into the rotation. They simply did not have enough arms to just move Aceves into the rotation without doing something to replace his relief innings. Theo admitted after it was too late that he did not do enough to try to supplement what pitching we had going into the later part of the season.

If I had to play devils advocate I would say Aceves was not given a starting role later last year because he had not been prepared as a starter during the spring. The Sox had so much invested in Lackey that they kept throwing him out there hoping to catch lightning in a bottle and the rest of the starting staff was not giving the Sox more than 5 or 6 innings a start. In fact they were lucky to get 4 innings out of starters in some cases. It would have been wishful thinking to depend on Aceves to do better under the circumstances. We did not need yet another 5 to 6 inning starter last year and moving Lackey to the BP in the latter part of the season would have been as foolhardy as moving Aceves into the rotation. As he aged Wake became less and less reliable in the relief roll as well and they were involved in that ridiculous effort to get him his damn record. If they do drop Aceves into the 5 spot this year, they will do it hoping that the rest of the rotation can go more innings than they did last year. They can afford to have guys at the bottom of the rotation going 5 or 6 if the guys at the top of the rotation are going 6, 7 or 8.

If I had to play devils advocate I would say Aceves was not given a starting role later last year because he had not been prepared as a starter during the spring. The Sox had so much invested in Lackey that they kept throwing him out there hoping to catch lightning in a bottle and the rest of the starting staff was not giving the Sox more than 5 or 6 innings a start. It would have been wishful thinking to depend on Aceves to do better under the circumstances. We did not need yet another 5 to 6 inning starter last year and moving Lackey to the BP in the latter part of the season would have been as foolhardy as moving Aceves into the rotation. As he aged Wake became less and less reliable in the relief roll as well and they were involved in that ridiculous effort to get him his damn record. If they do drop Aceves into the 5 spot this year, they will do it hoping that the rest of the rotation can go more innings than they did last year. They can afford to have guys at the bottom of the rotation going 5 or 6 if the guys at the top of the rotation are going 6, 7 or 8.

The Sox were over the cap in the the 2007 WS series year, the year before it and the year after. The Phils will very likely go over the cap this year and as noted the Yanks have been over it 4 years running now. The Sox will have a very hard time staying under if they do sign Ortiz under arbitration. It seems clear from the new CBA that baseballs powers have decided not to punish teams for going over one or two years running but to really let you have it if you go over three and especially 4 years running.

While they are a solid organization. again it is circumstances and each team's situation that make for major differences from one team to the next and that often drives their decision making process. The Phils have a new ball park and based on the team they had going into the offseason and its performance last year, they feel like they are only a couple of key signings away from going all the way. The Phils have not had quite the nuclear explosion of negative big FA signings the Sox have had lately either. While the Sox are going to have a very good team in 2012 I do not think they are in the same competitive or market based situation that the Phils are in. For example the Phils have looked like they were going to bust the LT cap all along this off season and they are sure to do it. Whether the Sox do it or not has been a matter of conjecture and while I now think they will, it is still a matter of conjecture. There are really not that many candidate teams in the MLB when it comes to spending big money on closers. In fact it is not even like a classic car auction which generally requires at least two interested buyers in the room to bump the price of the car. Heck the Phils were basically competing with themselves but gave Paps what he wanted in order to get him. Also as Elk has said, the FA market for closers this year is favorable to the path the Sox appear to want to go down with regard to closers. They may get what they want, they may not but this is certainly a year that looks ripe for doing what they appear to want to do....all the way up to having a guy in their own organization that may well be ready to get his shot.

Might be worth the effort. Although his agents might be trying to seed the field with rumors of interest in order to bump up the price, I really don't think he is going to get offers that are off the charts. At the end of the day taking arbitration probably works out better for Ortiz than any other option.

I was referring more to experiences like like that of Edinson Volquez.

Maybe it should not be much of a surprise but a number of pitchers have a hard time finding a reliable pitching groove again after TJ. Then again their careers are over if they don't get the operation. So it certainly gives them more of a chance to go forward than they would have otherwise. Rarely as easy as just rehab and then get back on the mound again.

The fact that so many closers are nameless is the in point in some ways. Many teams have very serviceable closers that they don't pay big money...they follow some version of what the Bard approach would be if we let Bard close. I will be interesting to see what happens with Madson regardless of whether it is the Sox or some other team.

Initially I thought Madson would want to string Boras up by the fingers for not being able to complete the deal with Philly but maybe both of them are suffering from unrealistic expectations for what teams will pay for him. I thought Miami was still in the running and I am a bit surprised that they declined on Miami after the Philly experience. How many deals are they going to screw and how many teams do they are out there that pay big money for closers. There are many teams that go the "bring the guy up the organization" route for closer. Take them completely out of the running.

The one other team I thought could be a spot for Madson would be Miami but he has already declined on Miami. I would have thought Miami would have offered 3/33 for him though so I don't know what he has declined from Miami. I wonder if that 4 years from Philly is stuck in his craw. Again I thought Miami would have worked a deal for him. You are right 700 4/44 is stupid money for Madson....likely why Phils owner threw up his hands (so the story goes) and told his GM he was nuts if he thought he was going to sign that contract.

To extend on 700's point the problem with the "let somebody sink to the bottom and get him cheap" approach is as I have identified it before, I think you just end up paying more money for someone that would not be better than Bard. However I have a feeling that is what they are doing. As for Madson, I think they will get better than 3/33 from somebody. I can't remember now what the Phils had on the table for him before that deal blew up. Was it 4/44 I think??? 3/33 would be way less than 4/44 and obviously less than 4/50.

Well unless they can get Madson for way less than I would think possible, letting Paps go to end up dealing with Boras over Madson makes no sense whatsoever. The Sox will likely be forced to negotiate down on Madson to a point that will not be acceptable to Boras or else they risk looking ridiculous for allowing Paps to leave. They can talk but I doubt they will get a deal done.

That is what I have believed...the Sox are looking for a bargain at closer and probably a few other bargains as well for the BP. Maybe at the end of the day Bard is their fall back position if they are unable to pull off getting a closer on their terms.

V is on his way to the Dominican to visit Ortiz. While this is being promoted as the first of V's goodwill tours I am inclined to think it is more than that. I would be willing to bet that V has been given a task by his new bosses. I believe V will be trying to coax Ortiz to accept the offer that the Sox want him to take which might be two years at a lower per year salary than he will earn in arbitration or accept the arbitration that they have offered. I just wish the hell that I knew for sure which one they want V to peddle at Ortiz but I would be really surprised if he does not have a task to perform out there. I do think it will be wrapped up in an argument for how much the Sox want him back but the message if properly delivered will be we want you back but we really need you to take this deal...whatever that is.

dice as a legit starter might not be hard to envision. Heck he was a legit starter for time here already. The problem has always been that combined with the posting fee they paid ace money for him and he never turned out to be an ace. No telling what kind of arm he will have on the other side of surgery and that actually becomes more of an issue than the name of his manager.

I am almost positive I still have this card. I have not looked at them in 25 years but just have kept carting them from one house to the next but I can even remember what this card looks like.

I would tend to agree were it not for the fact that CC could not handle a pitch in one particular location which really became his downfall for the year. I am sure the Sox have this information but I think we would find if we had been charting him that he got crushed on any pitch down and tailing away from him and eventually everybody went after him right there. I agree that nerves contributed to his problems last year. If you did not believe that from his plate appearance then his performance in the field would seal the deal on that issue. Not blaming DM either. However to have fallen pray to pitches in one location time after time suggests that there is something else going on. Either he is not seeing those pitches the way he once did or cannot get to them the way he once did. Batting is something like golf in the once sense that it is very hard to figure out what has changed when something has changed. Maybe he has opened his stance even the littlest bit more and can't get to those pitches or it has change his angle of view on those pitches and does not see them as he once did or maybe his vision has changed. That sounds like an effort at humor but it actually happened to Jim Rice one year and has happened to other ballplayers as well. So I would buy the nerves thing if not for the fact that he really got killed by pitches in one location. In fact by year end you could see a 6-3 out coming just about from the point when a particular pitch left the pitchers hand and could even see pitchers grooving their pitches to get to that spot where CC was just an out every time. Usually pitchers still have to work you to get you out. By year end, pitchers hardly bothered and were just trying to hit that right spot where CC could not help but swing but could not hit the ball a lick. It became the opposite problem to a guy that cannot lay off the rising fast ball but can't hit it either. That said I do think CC's problem will be way easier to fix than guys that cannot lay off high heat.