jung

I just edited my post. I had put in my post that Agons had been hitting ahead of Pedey. Mistake on my part. I had intended writing that paragraph differently and did not correct that sentence when I should have. It is corrected now. Agons was batting behind Pedey and is now batting behind Ortiz. Sorry folks

Interesting line up for tonight's game. I do wonder eventually how V is going to set up this line up relative to AGons and his apparent power outage. I don't see any particular reason for Agons home run totals to improve. He no longer swings such that he will or should produce many home runs. While AGons was struggling more at the end of the home stand having AGons hit behind Pedey was killing Pedey. Pedey was getting nothing to hit that he could drive as pitchers were pitching around Pedey to get to Agons. Even as Agons improves his batting average, pitchers will pitch more carefully to hitters that are home run threats than those that are not. Now AGons is behind Ortiz. Lets see if pitchers pitch around Ortiz the way they were pitching around Pedey to get to Agons. Another thing to watch for tonight and quite possibly more critical, Lester against the Royals. Lester takes the ball tonight and should dominate this team. Lester has been a fail for the most part as the teams #1 pitcher. He certainly gets about as good an opportunity to act like one as you can get against the lowly Royals. Lets see.

Actually it was Thursday, not Wednesday, a cold rainy day making it even less advised for Josh to be out there with his "stiff back". However regardless of the day it happened it obviously adds more fuel to the fire currently burning down at Fenway Park. Way ta' go Josh. What a jerk!

The biggest issue for Bard as a starter in my view is that he does not appear to be progressing. I don't entirely buy Mazz's "analysis" of the situation. In the first place, Bard's composure was so absent in the 2nd inning when he allowed runners on base and then proceeded to come apart that I would defy anybody to find some method in what he was doing on the mound. Two attempts at the two runners on, pick off/fake out, both resulting in balks...what the hell is that. Clearly, Bard should have been focused on the hitters. Just as clear, someone either V or McClure should have spring boarded off of that bench and settled Bard down as opposed to allowing him to drown in his own piss. V did jump off the bench in the first inning the night before when Doubront was suffering a similar lack of composure and focus. What the hell is different about Bard that kept V's ass planted to the bench? Bard went on to have a decent stretch from the 3rd through the 7th innings but clearly struggled through the 7th. Where were the coaches again in the 7th and why were they so utterly unprepared to assist Bard through that inning and preparing the pen for a possible appearance? Then we have the fateful 8th inning. Why were they so oblivious to Bard's state of condition to pitch in the 8th inning? To be honest as mentioned in the game thread I thought Bard was a shot load after the 7th regardless of a relatively low pitch count at 86. He had struggled in the 7th and just looking at the way he pitched in that inning and at him in the dugout between innings had me convinced he was not coming out at all in the 8th. Shows you what I know cause sure enough there he was. Bard never got within pissing distance of the strike zone to the very first batter of that inning and once again suffered the same lack of composure and focus that he suffered in the 2nd inning now much exacerbated by the ill effects of pressure combined with fatigue. He had already showed with the 1st hitter of the 8th that he could no longer control his arm angle. His velo is of little interest when he can't find the plate. His composure was so shot that as the ump attempted to call time, he was nearly decapitated by a Bard pitch directed not at Shops glove but at the umps head now about 8 feet from home plate! Had the coaches worked with Bard to help him through his rough spots last night, Bard might not have been a shot load by the 8th inning. However he was a shot load. That certainly should have been clear to the coaches. Bard had learned everything there was to learn from that game. He needed to be seated down next to McClure after the 7th inning so that they could go over his stint last night and V should have been taking a studied approach to who should come out for the 8th inning. Had he already opted to pull Bard he might have come up with something other than Fat Albers. We all saw how that worked out. So instead of Bard being on the bench for the 8th inning discussion his outing with McClure, an outing that on balance up to that point would have been marginally positive, he was instead out there in the 8th inning once again drowning in his own piss. Once again instead of making a studied approach to who should come in, V was hastily trying to determine what move to make under the pressure of Bard imploding on the mound. Now that I think about it, how much did Albers ability to get ready quickly play into the decision to use him instead of Miller? Further, maybe Albers was not ready at all! At any rate if the Sox want to continue the Bard starter experiment, the Sox coaches including V must understand that they need to help him though the rough spots and they need to be more conscience of what they are looking at from Bard and less conscience of the stupid God Damned pitch count. I might also suggest that Bard's lapses in composure are so unpredictable and so deep when they do occur that he might be less prepared for the hot seat of coming into games with men on needing to get the Sox out of jams than he is to start at this point.

Mazz's total purpose in life is to make Felger look brilliant....While it is hard to imagine that possible, I can find no other rational for his existence.

Well WMB to the outfield should make Ells happy as a pig in slop as he contemplates his return from injury.

Last night's performance was the first one that for me calls into question the viability of Bard as a starter. That is not to say that the Bard Starter experiment should end. In the first place Bard has not gotten more confident nor competent in the role in spite of having now had some starts and in spite of the fact that he has made it past the period when he was at risk for being tossed back into the pen. However, flaws and weaknesses exposed in earlier starts were all acceptable to me up until I take last night's Bard performance against the Royals and stack that one on top of the others. As I have said earlier in this thread, there was no question in my mind that Bard was gassed after the 7th inning last night. There is also no question in my mind that most of his problems were of his own making including the added pressure he put on himself due to a complete lack of composure. I am also of the view that the added pressure Bard put on himself due to his lack of composure was a significant contributor to the degree to which he was a spent load by the end of the 7th inning regardless of the pitch count. Bard's being gassed at 86 pitches given his lack of maturity in the starters role does not bother me as much as the fact that he appears capable of such a lack of composure that he stresses himself out completely over issues that should be controllable and contributed to his early retirement due to exhaustion. Those two balks were ridiculous and a complete manifestation of Bard's own making. By the end of the 7th inning he had shot his load and was spent, so much so that he was completely incapable of controlling his arm angle in the 8th and could not throw strikes to save his skin although he could still throw with velocity. Velocity with no control is useless and not meaningful. In addition, he was so stressed out by the runner on first again in the 8th as he was with men on in the 2nd inning, he nearly decapitated the ump while the ump was calling time. He was so flustered, he threw the ball at the ump instead of at the catcher. By that time the ump was eight feet from home plate! I am not saying the Bard starter experiment is a failure. I am not necessarily saying it should be ended. I am saying that he has not in my view learned to control his mind and body in such a way that he can avoid these outings where he ends up stressed out and exhausted. If the Sox want to continue the Bard starter experiment, they need to accept the fact that leaning on the pitch count is the wrong thing to do in judging if he should continue in any given game. If Bard is not making good throws and you have witnessed him unable to control his pitches and and his composure, get him outta' there. Never mind, the pitch count is 86 pitches....I don't give a s***. All you had to do was see the look on Bard's face in the dugout after the 7th inning to know he was done. I have no doubt that if you looked directly into his eyes you would have seen that vacant look that you will find on a boxer that has taken all the punches he can take in a given night, or a free safety (my position) that has just been whacked in the head to many times in a given game. Bard had learned everything he was going to learn from last night's start by the end of 7 innings. That lose last night is on V for not understanding the baseball condition of his starter and posing it accordingly given the baseball situation of his team. As for Bard himself, the coaches need to help him through these starts. V came out early in the Doubront start and calmed him down. Nobody came out to help Bard either in the 2nd inning or in the 7th inning or in the 8th inning. What the hell was that? These are young guys. We all thought V's problem would be with the Sox veterans but that he would be good with the young guys. Does not look like that to me.

Yea Bard got his only strike out in the 7th and promptly walked the first batter he saw in the 8th. His location in the 7th would suggest that whatever he had left he gave in that 7th inning. If you did not believe that then, his first pitches of the 8th which were nowhere should have left no doubt. As Bard himself just said in the KC locker room, his arm felt fine but he felt fatigue in his lower back and his legs and "I have to learn how to pitch in those conditions". His arm angle was all over the place. You want to look at his velocity and suggest that he was not spent because he could hump it up there. Sure he could hump it up there...nowhere near the strike zone but he could hump it up there. He could throw the ball but he could not maintain his arm angle and could not hit the broad side of a barn. So you could look at this another way. You could say that the Sox gave up this game in the continuing tutelage of Daniel Bard but you can't say he was not spent because he was. He simply does not know how to manage his body nor his mind as the stress and the fatigue take their toll and he does not know how to pitch when in that condition just like some boxers do not know how to box in that condition. A guy in his 30's will be fighting some young guy in his 20s and as the later rounds come up the older guy is often still fresh and has something in the tank and the younger guy is often spent because the younger guy does not know how to deal with either the stress of the moment or the continuing effect of fatigue. Same thing here. Only difference is Bard has a loss instead of a bloody nose!

The point is not what condition Bard should have been in. It does not matter that Bard SHOULD have been able to throw over 100 pitches. He was gassed at 86 pitches tonight and anybody with a pair of eyes could see that he was gassed. Whether he should have been gassed or not is meaningless. The stupidity of relying on the pitch count could not be more obvious. He was at 86 pitches going into that inning. So what should V have done 16 pitches later. Would it have suddenly been OK to take him out now that he has thrown those magical 16 pitches? Why because some God of pitch count has now been satisfied? It is just ridiculous. In addition it should have been obvious that Bard had really handled this stint very poorly and had caused himself a great deal of undue stress as a result. Undue stress is frankly often more debilitating than physical exertion. I suspect that is why he was gassed at 86 pitches. Do you think two balks and almost decapitating the home plate umpire is the kind of thing you would expect from a guy that had it together? That is what should make the pitch count a secondary consideration. It boggles the imagination that the first thing some managers talk about after an outing like this is the pitch count. Of course it does alleviate them from any responsibility to play situational baseball. They can blame it all on a number. and why bring in fat albers when Miller was just siting there?

So you don't think Bard struggled through the 7th?

So you don't think Bard struggled through the 7th?

V has been the straw breaking the camel's back far to often. He is going to break the young pitchers that he has physically and mentally. Sox are stupid for having handed $180M in assets to this jackass. He is terrible and is starting to make Tito look like genius.

I don't care what Eck says...Bard should have never been sent out for the 8th and not because we lost the game. He was spent. If we could see it from living rooms miles away it should not take much to see it from a few feet away.

This is the real problem that I have with pitch count. Granted Bard by pitch count was not overtaxed after the 7th. But he did struggle through the 7th and he looked totally spent in the dugout between innings. In fact when the camera went into the dugout I thought somebody was going to say that he was obviously done for the night. So why would you bring him out for the 8th. So how much do you want to bet V asked Bard if he could go one more inning and what the f*** is Bard going to say? And in truth, how tired you are physically has as much to do and sometimes more to do with how much stress you have been under as how hard you have worked physically. Did it not look like Bard had put himself through all sorts of stress throughout this stint?

Nice pitch Albers.

I know I said it earlier but Eck has been fun to listen to as the analyst tonight. I really miss Rem-dog but gammons puts me to sleep and Eck has been interesting, knowledgeable and fun at the same time.

If V waits till the bases are loaded or the Royals are ahead tonight the top of my head is going to come off.

What the hell kinda' lead did Byrd take there anyway. Don't think he would have made it if the pitcher went home.

Damn please get a couple more runs Sox.

Somebody who shall remain nameless should be taking notes on how you block the plate there. Good job Shop.

Bill Faul was the guy...used to hypnotize himself to pitch. The one time I saw him live something happened to him out on the mound and he just stopped....I mean just stopped! As I recall they walked him off the mound and brought in a relief pitcher.....no lie

He is absolutely pitching here...but when he loses his concentration it is like he is on Mars...not in the same ballpark...not even on the same planet. Any of you remember that pitcher that used to have to use a hypnotist to pitch? Damn I can't remember his name and I am going back a long way here. Actually saw him pitch one time in person. When Bard loses it sometimes he reminds of that guy.

Alright....3 straight good innings....C'mon get Dan a couple more runs...maybe he will make it through the 8th if we get him a couple runs and he concentrates on throwing strikes

I think Bard's arm is fine. I would love to rummage around in that skull of his to see what the hell is goin' on while he is on the mound sometimes "V loves me, V loves me not, V loves me, V loves me not....."

Dan....Dan....Dan......