jung

Ortiz should be very good this year but you cannot expect him to hit at this torrid a pace and Aviles has already been coming down to earth. They will need either Youk to hit or Middlebrooks to stay.

I think it is a given that WMB is going to fall off and that his performance to date has represented something of a peak. However I don't think it is a given that Youk will come back to anything like the player he was in early 2011. I also think that Youk is going to pick up the pace from where he was before his back issues this year but I think Youk is much closer to the player we saw before he went on the DL and I think while WMB is not likely to maintain performance at this peak level I still think he will generate way more offense than Youk is capable of while being a more solid defender than Youk is at this stage of his career. Guys age at different rates and we were saying even before this year started that Youk might just be on a faster rate of decline than his age might indicate. He appears to have some hard miles on that body of his and I think it has caught up to him. WMB's offense may be more critical to the Sox than even they think as the Sox are suffering from a severe power outage relative to what had been expected. Agons simply no longer hits HR's and I don't see any indication that he will hit HR's at anything like the rate anticipated when he was signed. Combine that now with Youk not really hitting at all at least before he went on the DL and now take WMB out of the lineup. Ortiz and Pedey can just do so much. Ross does not really produce against RHer's and Sweeney is not a HR hitter against pitchers from either side. So combined with Agons lack of power, you take WMB out of this lineup and what do you have??.....a slow of foot, aging team that has no real reliable means of generating enough offense to make up for a pitching staff that at this point you would call "shaky" in spite of getting good performances from the starters for the last few games and the pen doing better. You can just take so many productive members out of this lineup and still expect to generate offense. While CC did not produce last year making this year not that different so far, you have no Ells, no power from Agons, a slumping Youk and now you take the guy that has replaced Youks numbers and pull him out???? Unless Youk hits immediately upon return, I don't think the Sox have much of an offense in that case. I really think the Sox are going to insert Youk right back into the lineup. Don't know how long they will give him but I do think that is what is going to happen.

I can understand the Sox front office in its desire to get Youk back on track. I don't think it has anything to do with fairness to Youk and any of this "you don't lose your position to an injury ********". They want Youk back there because they believe Youk will make it back. Lets try this one. Given the fact that WMB has not even made a full turn through the AL yet, would our chances be better with a healthy Youk playing the way he was capable of playing before his injury in 2011? I would have to say that the answer is without question yes. I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell of Youk making it back to what he was before his injury. He will not in my view fall completely apart but he will never get close to justifying a $13M paycheck again. Having spend incredible amounts of money poorly in the last few seasons it seems to me that the Sox have drawn a line in the sand on Youk and are not willing to give up their $13M without a fight when in fact, the horse appears to have already left the barn.

Sure he was lights out but ya' never got the feeling that he had stepped up in that clubhouse and said something like "climb on my back guys and I will take you all the way". Schill relished that sort of thing and you could tell before hand that the team expected it of him and he expected it of himself. I think we have expected it of Josh and really have never had any good reason for expecting it of him other than it made a nice fantasy world story for the media. The media laid that on Josh. We never saw Josh out there asking for the role. We should expect the best pitching performance he can give us on any given day and while this whole golf story has gotten so convoluted and fouled up, if in fact he was not resting when he should have been resting, well that would seem to go directly to his ability to pitch his best.

Sure the point is that the Mariners are a suck team but we would have killed him if he s*** the bed against these guys. He went out and pitched a very good game so in that sense you have to give it to him. Everybody...us, everybody else the media and most particularly the other pitchers on the Sox staff have got to stop looking to Beckett for leadership...he is not a leader...he does not want the job. If he does not want it at this point he is never going to want it. The only way leadership should be expected of Beckett is if the Sox said to him at his signing of his extension that they expected him to be the leader of the staff. If at that time they made that part of the expectations for Josh then acting the way he has acted is unconscionable. If they did not then these are expectations that are unwarranted and everybody should just stop jumping on him over this lack of leadership stuff. In fact as I have said before I even think some of his behavior is his juvenile response and reaction to people laying these expectations of leadership on him. He is the #2 starter on this staff. That is where it begins and end. I don't think he needs to be as much of a jerk as he is at times but most of the hits he takes are over his behavior "as the leader of the staff". Yes it does leave a big leadership hole on this team but it is what it is.

Well if we remember Theo admitted that not trying to find another arm for the later part of last season was a mistake. I got the impression from the way he framed that discussion that there was nothing behind that decision like a lack of willingness to get somebody. He made it sound like he just flat made a mistake. So I think he basically told us what happened. He screwed up.

I could be remembering this wrong but I think before Ace had yesterday off he pitched in all three games before that and had big pitch counts each time, between 20-30 pitches in the last two for sure and was clearly weakening at the end of the last one. I would have thought one more day off the mound would have been a good thing for a guy that they depend on as much as they depend on Ace especially in a none save situation......maybe not....

Whatever he is Ace could use more than one day off the mound considering how many days straight he came out and pitched before that. Why even have him warm?

I guess V is going to get away with it but I think Josh deserved to come out for the 8th. V must have figured that he was not going to let Beckett finish under any circumstances and maybe got burned last start giving Josh that last inning to pitch case in that case that last inning cost Josh something like 23 pitches as I recall.

If Agons was not so darned focused on pitches between the knees and the belt on the outer half that third strike pitch would not have looked nearly so inviting. Swinging at that from a right handed pitcher even with 2 strikes is way below the standard you would expect from a LH hitter as good as AGons. Should not have looked good enough to swing at coming up to the plate for someone as good as AGons.

Nice at bat Agons....see what I mean?

I don't think even the Sox are stupid enough to keep d-mac instead of Nava. There is nothing to recommend d-mac over Nava. The minor "potential" added defensive advantage d-mac brings is paper thin compared to Nava.

They are way better with the younger kids playing. They are way better with the younger kids playing even when they do come off their peaks. Nava may tumble pretty far when he does finally tumble but he is not going to play the game differently and the way Nava plays is so refreshing compared to most of these entitled vets. But I don't think that counts for much with the Sox as much as I like it. Clearly Nava plays the game this way whether here or Pawtucket. The fact is he got white hot in Pawtucket just as the Sox needed outfield help which says to me that once he falls off of this peak they are not likely to keep him around unless injury to others suggests otherwise. I would love to see him stay at least as long as it takes for Ells and CC to get back. Clearly at least Nava is not facing the same kind of issue that we have with Youk and WMB.

Sox must feel like Youk will recover to be his former self. There is no other explanation for sending WMB back to Pawtucket. If they are just doing it without any indication that Youk will recover, just hoping then it is just ridiculous. He must have either done something before the injury or has done something since that has the Sox feeling like he will come back. I am sure they believe that WMB will come off of this peak level that he has been on. But even with that you could feel the life being sucked out of the lineup with Youk in there not to mention being something of a liability in the field. This has to be the Sox thinking with their wallets but they have done that all year.

Your interpreting what I said to suggest he would not swing at that pitch with two strikes. He will swing at the inside strike with two strikes but he cannot do anything with it because he is still focused on the outer half of the plate even with two strikes. That pitch that Nava got his last hit on is now eating Agons alive and it has been all year so far.

AGons swing has not gone to s***. He is not swinging for HR's. There is a difference between a swing going to s*** and just not picking on pitches that can be hit for HR's. The shoulder may have a part to play in that but there is no ignoring the fact that he jumps now at any pitch if it looks like a pitch he can take the other way even if it is the first pitch of an at bat and even it it may be a ball. If potential injury to his shoulder is responsible for his current approach to hitting then you might be able to say that his swing has gone to s***. He simply has no interest in pitches anywhere else and does not even protect that plate any longer when he has two strikes. We all have eyes. Either you can deny what you eyes tell you are not. Even the balls he is taking the other way have no shot at getting over the wall. AGons has been carrying this swing on the road with him so you can't even say it is his Fenway swing.

Even when Agons has his timing in order, he just no longer even has a HR swing. Doubles at best are what he is going to get swinging like he is swinging and he no longer has any interest in pitches on the inner half of the plate...either he is going the other way or he is not goin' at all. He had that flat swing for the two homers he hit this year but those were pitches on the inner half and up that he hit really hard to get them out. Left hand hitters that don't have any interest in the classic go pitch for the LH hitter (low and inside) just are not going to hit many homers.

Man that OBP and OPS ob AGons is just awful.

If there is some lesson in the Nava, WMB experience it is in the value of having some balance between young players and aging stars. These guys make most of the regulars look like they belong in some senior league. Suddenly beer and chicken makes much more sense for that crew:D:D

My hope for Beckett and more importantly for the Sox is that everybody stop thinking of Josh Beckett in terms of being the leader of the pitching staff. He is not a leader and if you look at his behavior you can easily make the case that he does not want the job. I admit that leaves a hole because in reality while he does not exhibit the same behavior, I am not convinced that Pedey is a team leader either although I think Pedey has sought the job this year. I don't see any evidence that Josh has sought even the distinction as leader of the pitching staff. In fact I would say that his behavior suggests exactly the opposite. I think this is and has been a media creation that Josh has not bought into. I would be willing to bet that a number of the pitchers on the Sox have bought into it for the same reason that the media has promoted it...it would seem a natural. However it does not matter what we or anybody else might want, I think we can see in part the result of trying to shoehorn Josh into the job. Josh almost seems compelled to show us that he does not want the responsibility of leading anything and I have gotten to the point where I think the more we shove this on him, the more likely he will behave in ways that disappoint us. The pitchers on the Sox staff are going to have to make their own way, young or old, experienced or not because they really do not have a leader. Beckett is the #2 starter in the rotation and that is it. Frankly I just hope he has enough interest in that job to not go out there and stink up the joint like he did last time out.

Tonight's game should be a great opportunity for Beckett to recover some PR mileage. The Mariner's are yet another semi-ML team stuck in limbo between AAA and MLB. He will be pitching to Salty in this afternoons 4:00PM start, not his favored catcher. Still and all, the Mariners are terrible. Beckett could end up having a great game tonight. He certainly has the potential to pitch a great game tonight. In reality the sooner we all stop expecting Beckett to be some sort of leader of the pitching staff the better off everybody, especially in that pitching staff will be. He is not a leader. He does not want the job. In reality I am beginning to think many of the things people do not like him for are things he does trying to flesh off the responsibility as the leader of the pitching staff. He is the #2 pitcher in the rotation. That is it. That is the only job he is interested in doing and it appears that there are times when his interest even wains in that role. I cringe now every time I see an article or media piece that starts with the assumption that Josh is the leader of the staff. I have gotten to the point where I think it just instigates more bad behavior on his part. I admit it leaves a big hole because this staff really does not have a guy that has the cred to fill that role. Maybe they will all grow more as a result. It is what it is.

Every Beckett start seems to engender so much angst. No idea what we will get tomorrow.....the golfer....the texas tough guy....be nice to just get the starting pitcher for a change.

Ya' gotta wonder how well Lester would have done with Salty behind the plate...takes nothing away from Lester but should be noted ala' Salty vs Shop

C'mon Jon...finish it

Don...."He has had an 8 inning complete game this year but has not had a 9 inning complete game since 2010". Atta boy Don.