jung

It is staggering to me how much crap off the plate the Sox swing at....they should be pounding this guy. i wonder how this Sox team is going to stack up against others for K's for the season. I have a bad feeling about that one.

Well that was enough contact for one game I guess....Geez That is another problem for a contact pitcher though....all that seeing eye, tough hop s*** kept Cook out there forever and then....here comes the big boys right when he is fading.

Yea but people don't post here for the team. If you were in first place your view it would be to keep winning games.

That last hit off of Cook is the way hitters should attack all the junk ballers. It used to be standard practice to just foul off balls to low in the zone to do anything with until you finally forced a meatball out of a pitcher like Cook. Carew used to be ridiculous at it. He would just stand there in the batters box and foul them off one after the other until he got one he liked. Seems to be something of a lost art these days.

It has been quiet in here for at least the last 2 weeks at least.

Neither ever has anything good to say about anybody...that is there schtick.

I wonder how much of this Aviles turf toe deal is simply wanting Ciriaco in the lineup without saying so. I definitely want Ciriaco in the lineup and I expect the Sox prefer him there as well but I don't think you will ever get the Sox to tell you that they want Ciriaco there instead of Aviles. If they truly wanted Avlies there instead, they would be dead and to stupid to fall over.

Well the difference between the two I think is that Lester at this stage at least for now still has basically the same stuff and must cure his mechanical issues. Beckett must have control of location at a level that he has never had before. If he throws 91 MPH FB in the same location he threw 95 MPH FB and even 94 MPH FB, well.....good night Irene. They will likely be flat and fat and right in the middle of the plate from what we have seen. I actually think Lester has the better chance IF he gets help in the form of a real 1 for him to follow and a pitching coach that can help him cure his mechanical issues. Beckett has already been at this for awhile so I just don't think the issue is time....it is commitment in the form of work and conditioning. Once you fall so far off the wagon that you are telling people you have fallen off the work and conditioning wagon....real hard to come back.

We are talking about a guy who saw fit to tell us that family is more important than anything else and that he is no longer as committed to baseball as he was at one time. The importance of family is obvious. Therefore Beckett was not really trying to tell us the obvious. He was telling us what he is willing to do at this point and he walks like he talks. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck......It is a duck. The work that Greg Maddux put in to make that transition is legendary in baseball. If Josh Beckett is even getting within pissing distance of that, you will be able to knock me over with a feather. By the way what do we think the aforementioned Mr Beckett will do if and when the time comes when his contract is up and he goes out to eh market pitching like a 3. Will he be willing to take 3 money or will he retire? I would bet retire unless 3 money has been blown so out of proportion by then that he can make what he makes now acknowledged to be a 3.

By the way I have already stated in other threads more relevant to the topic that I would not take a bag of bolts for Beckett and I would not agree to pay his salary. if that means we are stuck with him then we are stuck with him. You do realize that the fact that we are overpaying for so many players that are not performing nearly as well as they should is at least from the overall personnel problem, the biggest problem this team has and is the key element to upper management's unwillingness to commit more money for players. That list includes Beckett.

Well that is great news....Josh is a 3 somewhere.....as if we don't have a packed house of 3's already. Some of us frankly in an effort to be kind were saying that at best we had a bunch of 2's, a 4 and 5 before the season started. While Buch has done a great job in my estimation and has gotten my vote for star of the staff for months now and I have suggested that if he continues to pitch this way, the Sox will have no choice but to elevate him to the staff 1 unless they finally bring somebody in for that role. But at this moment I would rate Buch a 2 although he is the best we have so our 1, Felix our 2, Lester and Becket either the 3 or 4 with both interchangeable at this point and Cook our 5. The point being we have plenty of 3's and don't need more especially when they are supposed to be our 1 or 2 AND get paid like it.

Well I guess I will let you know when I figure out the relevance of "pitched better than a 4.54 ERA that has been inflated due to a couple of outings. You ask the Red Sox if they would have preferred to win the games that he has started that were lost instead of losing them. This whole selectively eliminate stats thing is frankly a discussion without a point. What are we supposed to do....go to Bud Selig at the end of the season and tell him we should be in the playoffs because those games should not count? I would guess the selective stats argument would get nowhere with a GM worth his salt the Sox were shopping Beckett to as the obvious response would be..."he did throw those pitches that resulted in that outcome correct? That wasn't a double or some twin out there we don't know about that was throwing....correct"? And that would be the end of that.

I should have added that while a strong core and extra fat around the middle are and can be exclusive of each other, any neurosurgeon worth his salt will recommend that Beckett and anybody else with that sort of back issue both strengthen his core AND lose any weight around the middle. What do you think all of that weight for a guy with weight around the middle is pulling against...his tits? It is pulling against his lower back and is being supported by his spine generally. Even if you just have a paunch, the neurosurgeon will recommend that you lose it because he is trying to recommend the least invasive methods of keeping you out of pain and off the operating table. You may choose to ignore that recommendation but he will make it. And yes you will generally be in significant pain after a back spasm but usually the real knock your dick in the dirt pain from that sort of injury occurs the next day. Today, Josh will be sitting down on the thrown carefully just to take a crap.

Core problems do not create nor cure back problems, however they go a long way to mitigating their consequences. Muscle spams occur in the lower back and in the cervical area for that matter for very much the same reasons. The spasm is a reaction to the actual injury. Looking at the areas they were paying attention to probably somewhere around L4 or L5, maybe both. The spasming muscle is literally trying to pull your vertebrae off the damaged disc or other functioning spinal component that is injured and inflamed. A back muscle spasm does not occur in isolation. It occurs as a protective measure, an effort on the part of your own body to try to heal itself much like white blood cells in their sphere of influence. He will likely be on the shelf for at least two weeks if not longer. If there is any video of him walking today he will likely look like he has a board stuffed in his pants running from his butt up his lower back. They will likely prescribe muscle relaxers to induce the spasming muscle to stop, anti-insflammatories to take the inflammation out of the damaged spinal component, some devices will likely be attached to his back that promote additional blood circulation to the area and he will eventually end up in some therapy with a doctor telling him that he must eventually strengthen his core if he wants to avoid/mitigate these occurrences in the future. That is a best case scenario. Worst case, he eventually does enough damage back there that he is living in pain for the rest of his life or he gets surgery.

He is getting spasms in his lower back....there is not a world of possibilities for how that happens. If the point you are trying to make is that the other 25% of back problems are not mitigated by having a strong core....good for you....bravo....I still think it is criminal that he does not maintain a strong core....all I need is eyes to know he is not doing that!

Only everything...it is nonsense. you cannot eliminate stints and arrive at any meaningful conclusion what-so-ever especially given the changes he is going through from his glory years now in his rear view and where he is today. You get the benefit of being able to watch the man pitch. You don't have to rely entirely on stats and manipulating stats is the worst sort of nonsense. Does he throw at 95-96-97 or 98 any longer......No - Was that the kind of pitcher he was for the bulk of his career and would we define that type of pitcher as power pitcher.....yes - When you watch him pitch do the bulk of his issues arise because at this lower velo his must maintain pinpoint control and location in order to be effective and he is unable to do that as yet....yes - Can he "blow people away" with a 91-92 FB.....No, not when the difference between his FB and his secondary pitches is as small as it is - Do the bulk of his runs against come now in bunches virtually defined by the of period time for which he losses his control and is unable to get it back.....yes That is it....that is the entire story with a footnote that relates to his commitment to the game at present and his conditioning both lacking. He appears not to be putting in the work effort to make this transition to a different kind of pitcher successfully as he has been at it for two years at least now....call it a Greg Maddux transition if you want to and he is spending more and more time on the shelf. The only difference between Beckett last year and this is that his blowup innings are coming earlier and more frequently in games this year as opposed to last year and this year he is being kept in these games after having the blowup inning which has blown up his ERA.

And if they develop back problems which Beckett developed in 2010, two years ago, they better damn well firm up their cores too! This is the second time for Beckett....firm up your core you lazy, defocused, sack.

More nonsense

You are apparently completely ignoring the fact that he is now a 91-92 MPH FB pitcher. You cannot simply remove stints for convenience sake especially considering that this is no longer the same pitcher, not by a long shot. He is now a control pitcher relying on location and secondary pitches to get the job done and so far, has not made that transition successfully enough to this point having begun it last year. Until he does, then removing starts from a season is frankly utter nonsense. He is what he is.....if you look at his problem innings, problem stints, problem starts call it what you want....he has blowup innings where he cannot maintain his control which must now be pinpoint because he no longer has the velo to blow hitters away. Until and unless he does that then the only numbers you can look at are season totals which are worse this year than last and which may continue like this until and unless he puts the work effort in required to make a completely successful transition to a pinpoint control pitcher, not to mention making the commitment to conditioning required to stay on the field. He is now going to miss even more time this year and if he comes back at all, will come back after yet another long layoff. 75% of back injury can be avoided by maintaining a strong core. Anybody that has had back trouble will tell you that and for a professional athlete making what he makes to be walking around that sloppy around the middle is pretty bad.

What is even more disturbing or at least potentially disturbing is that all those gaudy numbers from the past that people want to point to are pre-shoulder injury, surgery and rehab. With the exception of a half season of baseball, last year he has not been able to produce those kinds of power numbers. What is encouraging is that he has begun to be more effective on inside pitches again. They have to get pretty far in under his hands to get him out in there now. He had been looking outside so much that he had become meat inside. That is the most encouraging thing I have seen from Agons this year. Once again though, big money is paid for big power and without big power Agons is a huge overpay.

and Beckett is likely headed to the DL and Ortiz is not as yet coming off the DL and the Sox have got to get past all the teams above them to either challenge for the division or even the WC. However if they can get past tonight, the Twins come in for four games. So it could be a nine game win streak that quickly although on top of their other foibles and maladies, they have shown about as much killer instinct as puppy dog....a toy puppy dog for that matter. I had kept hoping they would look at games with chump teams in the first half as opportunities to make hay and the Sox basically were sleep walking through most of them...and that had nothing to do with injuries. With the exception of Ortiz the guys that were penciled into that lineup from the start were doing most of the sleep walking.

I predicted months ago that we will never see Iggy in a Sox uniform for any significant length of time. I just want to see him play for whatever period I can and when Ciriaco falls off (notice I said when not if) then with the late season roster moves, Iggy will likely be here and likely give us our last opportunity to see him in a Sox uniform.

Yea as soon as i saw it I was thinking weeks on the DL anyway.

The networks cannot possibly control people tweeting the metal winners in various events though right?

Sorta sucks they kept Frank out there throwing....that field is a mess and Frank simply got to the point where I don't think he could throw reliably.