jung

Well I think people are dividing the question between where Buch would be in a contending rotation and where he is in this rotation. There can't be any question where he belongs in this rotation but this is not a rotation contending for anything other than trying to stay out of the basement.

Amazing how Baseball 101 eludes the Sox FO and most of this board on such a regular basis. Accepting and even anointing a SS as "adequate" as we have on this board on occasion is simply as wrong headed as it gets. There is no such thing as an adequate SS. It is one of only two defensive positions on the field for which that is true and it is the only defensive position on the field where an inning can be turned around entirely at any given moment by a defender capable of making plays as opposed to one staggering around the position the way Aviles does. One of my biggest disappointments in this FO and the clearest example I have of their lack of understanding for the game of baseball as it is played on the field is installing a utility infielder as the everyday SS. By the way, Soxsport is exactly correct.....it is an entirely different defensive position than either 2nd or 3rd, closer to 2nd than 3rd for sure but still a long way past 2nd base with regard to the difficulty of playing the position and the opportunity the position represents to the truly capable SS.

Lackey does appear to be universally liked by his teammates in spite of his antics on the mound. I don't know why but it does seem to be true. I have often wondered if for whatever reason, even under Tito, this became an us vs them clubhouse where for the players, a player could do no wrong but everybody else was considered the enemy. Not sure how to explore that topic intelligently but I do wonder if that is where that clubhouse got to at some point and maybe that is where it remains.

The only issue I have with focusing on Lester and Beckett in the rotation of starters is that your starting pitching has to last the entire season. Clearly they have not lasted. Bard fell apart early. Felix as expected now has to simply be put on the shelf as he has hit his limit. Cook has hot really been a solution and Frank is probably only a step behind Felix. So while Lester and Beckett have been abysmal....this starting rotation was doomed from the start. Hence our bullpen is now dead in the water...spared only by Buch's starts. Don't let the FO and Management off the hook here as this was a known problem before the first pitch of the regular season.

That is a good point 700. Durability at this point is probably the more appropriate term although when he is forced to these DL stints, he must fight his way back and it does then become consistency again when viewing his career in total. You really do have to be durable to be consistent. Hard to imagine that a pitcher who is not durable will be none the less, consistent. The top three guys and surely without question the top two guys on a staff must pull down at least 200 innings each. If you don't get major innings out of those top two or three guys, your bull pen does not stand a chance of surviving. This is two years running that we have toasted our bull pen. Just another facet of the problem with the starters. I think last year the pen was toast by the end of August. This year the pen is toast at the beginning of August. Two different managers...two different ways of handling pitchers...same result...toasted bull pen. I do still think Buch is the Ace of this staff for this year if folks are insistent on applying that term to somebody on this team. That is not saying much though. It is almost unfair to Buch. He has simply turned into a very good pitcher for this period this year and is far and away the most promising player story on this team right now.

With Lavs as the primary catcher, Salty won't get a chance to go on any run...a month or two or a week or two....he will end up catching the back end of double headers and day games after night games and that will be it. If Lavs is primary...no way he splits time with whoever they have for a second catcher.

He is the unquestioned Ace of this rotation even given the brevity of the period he has been this sharp. I would just not want to see us fool ourselves into thinking that makes him the Ace or the #1 of a true contending team. Buch is not as good as he has looked in the last several starts and is not as bad as he has looked at his worst. Bring a true 1, someone that can hold down that spot for a contending team here and slot Buch in right behind him...find a 3 out of the remainder (lester, Felix, Frank, Lackey, Cook) and just like that you have a legit rotation that would be right up close to the best rotations for contending teams...just like that. Just make sure that the guy you bring in is a 1 in the sense of being capable of leading the rotation and the pitching staff generally as well as pitching like one and you really have something.

There starting pitching sucks. That is most of the story. The offense lacks cohesion. That is most of the rest of the story. The defense is porous in the most important defensive positions.....that about covers what remains of the story.

As much as I really have trouble with Salty, I would likely keep Salty and make him Lavs backup and get rid of Shop. Shop is not a great defensive catcher...he is just better than Salty. However if Lavs is the primary catcher I think Salty gives the Sox more to work with than Shop does.

This is a win for the Sox the way a hockey game is a win because the goalie stones the opponent. Buch was the best player by far on the field tonight and towered over the game in total. However it took that for the Sox to eke out a 3-2 win over one of the worse teams in baseball with the worst or close to worst pitching in baseball.....a prime example for why the Sox are NOT one of the best teams in baseball and NOT something like a number 3 in the rotation and sending Aviles packing away from "going all the way" or even faking it. This season is not some fluke just like September was not some fluke. I just don't know what it will take for some folks to figure this out if six straight months of abysmal baseball does not do it. Can be turned around but not by nipping at the edges of the issues here. They will have to make tough choices...or stew in this quagmire for the next couple years at least.

If the Sox could land a legit 1 then the whole profile of the rotation changes mainly because Buch could slot in right behind that guy. Then you are looking for somebody....maybe Felix to emerge as a 3 and you have a legit rotation again. Maybe Lester gets back to good enough to be that guy that slots in behind Buch. However bringing in a 3 or something like that will not get it done. This rotation must get a 1 during the off season to even think about contending again. There are other problems to solve as this is not a contending team as constructed. However you get a 1 in here and you have a shot at dealing with the rest of this mess.

Sliders still appear to be a mystery to Crawford. Either a pitcher has one, in which case Crawford is in a lotta' trouble or he does not in which case Crawford might be golden.

Well at least it does not look like it is exploding on him. Hopefully just turns out to be a bad bruise but that was loud.

that did not sound good

For crying out loud the Guardians are one of the worse teams in baseball and we are I guess.....competitive with them...lucky us. Can we not eke out more than a 1 run lead? Can we not put any distance between us and Cleveland?

Buch is the Ace of this staff without question...He is not a 1 on a contending team if that is what you mean....has not done it long enough with near enough consistency. However he has gotten my vote for best of the season here from pretty early on. Now that the rest of the pretenders have imploded, it is pretty obvious that he is the man at least on this staff. Frankly I picked him early not so much because he was pitching great early but because I had little confidence in Lester and Beckett and the other guys had no shot at catching Buch for that title. He made progress slowly but pretty steadily from that worse start in May and never looked back.

Win or lose...Buch saving the pen might be the biggest news out of this game. If the pen has to or I guess had to get used tonight, I just do not what they will do in the next couple of games.

Guys like Scott are the other side of the coin. Frankly not a very pretty picture. Guys that get bounced down to the minors make nothing which the union could have changed some in this last CBA. However the MLB players decided to vote against it making sure every possible dime of potential income went to them. God forbid they should shed a few coins they would never see to the farm system players. Generally MLB baseball players are getting harder and harder to like.

Equal amounts of suckage in both dugouts but Buch is the difference. Just wish we could give him more run support. Out of the dugout...up to the on deck circle....up to the plate...back to the dugout surprised opposing ground crews don't have to prepare that path just for the Sox.

Good thing that is Buch on the mound Lester would be pouting Beckett would be day dreaming Padilla would be planning an assassination Ace would just grove one right down main street

Little league world series

85 pitches....a new career high in pitches thrown for this guy....Geez...there is our 6th inning dinger...two runs instead of one...could be enough the Buch pitching against the Guardians

Geez that is an awful move for a LH pitcher

Now Pedey might try to steal

Seddon seems to have a terrible move to first or even throws it into right field...Pedey might steal again although I doubt he will try here