SoxFanForsyth

How am I being a poor loser? We haven't lost yet first of all, and I'm not at all spiteful of them getting good performance out of Colon. The Red Sox caught lightening in a bottle with Matt Albers for the first half of the season. So what. How is anything that I'm saying disqualifying the fact that the Yankees have the lead right now? Calling them lucky for Colon posting a 3.55 ERA this season is calling it like it is. And any Yankee fan on this thread would agree with me. By the way - add Millwood to that listing. Explain to me, again, how signing Millwood, Prior, and Colon, and getting 170 IP of 3.55 baseball out of Colon is a sign of organizational strength, rather than luck??

Actually, its pure luck that 1. Colon has lasted this long, and 2. that he's been not just effective, but low 3's ERA effective. The guy had not touched 100 IP since 2005, and threw 70 IP in winter ball. To expect him to be a reliable starter through an entire season would be hideous judgement by the Yankees brass. To expect him to give you a few spot starts when starters went down, that's why they signed him. By the way, the same way they signed Colon, they also signed Mark Prior. If it's not "luck" and it's purely organizational management making a good decision, then why isn't Mark Prior up in the MLB, I mean you've got Burnett sucking wind every start, so why isn't Mark Prior making a big impact like Colon? Plain and simple, they caught lightening in a bottle, and got lucky. That's what teams do with these signings. It was the same thing the Red Sox tried to do with Brad Penny and John Smoltz a couple years ago.

You expect Theo to be a fortune teller? The Giants gave up a top pitching prospect in their system for Beltran, probably because they intend to re-sign him at the end of the year. You had a .935 OPS right fielder on your team, why would you go out and get Beltran? That makes no sense. And this team HAD depth! How do you not understand this? Aceves, Doubront, Wakefield, Miller, Weiland. You are like iortiz, you guys expect to have legitimate #4 and #5 starters as depth. The problem is, if there are legit #4 and #5 starters, they wouldn't be in AAA unless they are young (Doubront, Weiland). Otherwise, they're playing for another team, pitching every 5 days. And that's not even to mention that there WAS NOBODY available. This is obvious because the Yankees started with a rotation that included Garcia, and Colon was the next in line after Hughes went down.

And they have two retreads in Colon and Garcia who came out of freaking nowhere and are posting low 3 ERA's. What if they threw like they were supposed to, and didn't have absolute career years (in Garcia's place) and "stem cell transplants"? The Yankees would probably be behind the Rays! You can't compare the two teams because while the Yankees had Hughes (Buchholz) and Burnett (Lackey), they also have Colon and Garcia who are throwing better than anyone could have ever expected. If DiceK and Bedard were still here, throwing to 3.35 ERA's, this team would be fine.

I'm not confident in him now, but I was confident in him at the beginning of the season. Go look at his 2nd half splits last year. He looked like a solid pitcher.

To me, it seems like you and iortiz are the ones making excuses. Blaming the FO for not getting someone at the deadline/building more depth. The fact remains, there was nothing there. You want to scoop some 4.50 ERA, 180 IP pitcher out of this invisible bucket but there was no SP to be found.

And how was Lackey a Red Light?? He threw over 210 IP, won 14 games and posted a 4.40 ERA. His 2nd half, he posted a 3.96 ERA. Do you expect us to have a rotation of 5 sub-3.50 ERA pitchers? The 4 and 5 pitchers are meant to eat innings and keep you in the game. They're not, by any means, supposed to be top of the rotation starters, regardless of how Francona lined it up in the beginning of the season. And Buchholz was as green as the light gets. 2.33 ERA? Come on man.

Felix Doubront: 4.11 ERA as a starter (3 starts) in 2010 at the age of 22. He was projected to be a very good starter at the MLB level. Injuries hurt him this year. And he's still only 23. Aceves: Career 3.21 ERA while pitching in the AL East. He should be in the rotation right now, but he's so incredibly valuable out of the bullpen. Still, though, with the rotation in the state it's in, he should be starting games. Wakefield: Spot starter who can give you 6-7 IP of 3-4 ER baseball. Not meant to be an ace, and not meant to throw more than 95 IP. Again, a spot starter. Miller/Weiland: Crushed it in AAA, but his stuff isn't playing well in MLB. But regardless, he's #9/10 on the depth chart. The Sox had their 1-5, and then had 2 pitchers in Aceves and Doubront who were very dependable and had good track records. They had Wakefield who can give them innings in spot starts. What it boils down to is this. You expect our #8-10 pitchers to be able to go out and throw 7 IP and allow 3-4 ER. That's not the case. That's not the case for the Red Sox or any other team. If we had pitchers who could do that, they would be throwing for other teams every 5th day. Your expectations are too high for the depth of the pitching rotation, plain and simple.

Don't worry Pal. I got your back. People just want to blame this bad streak of games on someone. Nothing Theo could have done differently.

Guardians offered more for Jimenez than Sox had. They had no chance. That's like you having $10 and me saying "Why can't you give me $20?" And Sox didn't go after Pence because we had a guy hitting .331 with a .935 in Reddick. Why would you sell the farm to replace that?

Actually, that's not true at all. At the beginning of the season, we went with: Beckett Lester Buchholz Lackey DiceK Aceves Wakefield Doubront Miller Weiland Millwood (FA Signing) If Jenks, Dennys Reyes, Okajima, Rich Hill, and Tommy Hottovy didn't all suck so bad/get hurt (Hill), then Aceves would be a SP right now. But our bullpen sucks without Aceves there, so he stopped being an option. So now look at that rotation. Over the past 13 games, let's look at each player: Beckett (injured) Lester Buchholz (injured) Lackey (ineffective) DiceK (injured) Bedard (injured) Aceves (bullpen) Wakefield (ineffectve) Doubront (bullpen) Miller (ineffective) Weiland (ineffective) Millwood (released) So it's not like Theo didn't give us depth. He gave the team plenty of depth, but the fliers he took didn't work. Again. Look at the Rays #7 starter. He's started 4 games and has a 7.98 ERA. Show me one team that has a #8, #9, and #10 starter who are effective. You can't, and do you know why? Because if they are effective starters, they will be #4's and #5's for a team and playing at the MLB level.

You mean the same guy who panicked about 1 RBI being taken from him. So bad so that he interrupted a Francona during a presser?

Adrian Gonzales quote in the Boston Herald: I love it.

And like I've said before - All the Red Sox need to do is win against the Orioles while the Rays and Yankees play. If the Rays beat the Yankees, you pick up games on NYY, gaining ground, making the Yanks play the Rays hard in the final series of the season when, oh by the way, the Red Sox are playing the Orioles again. If the Yankees beat the Rays, you pad your lead in the wild card. At the very least, take 3/4 from the Orioles. You're guaranteed to pick up games.

Exactly. I'm not sure who everyone wishes we should have gone after at the deadline. The market was extremely bare. Ubaldo was available, but what the Guardians gave up for him trumped anything the Sox could have offered. The only guy I think the Sox should have gone after is Fister, but I think the Tigers overpaid for him anyways, so again, unless you want to completely overpay for a player, you're probably better off making a small move, getting yourself to the PS, and then using your 1-2-3 there. I still think Beckett - Lester - Bedard will be good for 2/3 in any series, even the Phillies.

Do you know how many pitchers the Rays have had start games this year? 7. SEVEN. That's an absurdly low number. They have faced basically zero injury, and their farm system is closer to the MLB level, so they can call up Alex Cobb and get a good start out of it. You know what their 7th starter did in his 4 starts? Posted a 7.85 ERA. So that's a horseshit argument. They have just as little depth as the Red Sox in the SP position, but their starters have gone out there every 5th day. The Red Sox have had TEN starters, and obviously numbers 6-10 are all progressively worse and worse. You can't expect to have a #8 or #9 man to come out and give you QS after QS. Who do you want to pick up that is going to post a 4.50 ERA or lower and be out there every 5th game, but is going to agree to a MiLB deal where he's 8th or 9th on the depth chart?? It's not out there.

Enough losing. Win. Wakefield vs Morrow. Seriously. I think we're all sick of this. Win tonight and start a streak. Do it.