Dojji

By the looks of the list, whoever compiled it (this was clearly copy-pasted) did so before the A-Rod scandal broke. I'm reacting the way I am because this list was already posted in another thread that YOTN locked because it became a series of personal attacks on a particular poster who was a Yankee fan (not Jacko, a new guy, who I don't want to name because that will just derail things further). So to see Emp9 come in and start a new thread with a post from a locked thread... well, it's at least highly fishy and it does suggest a continuation of that vendetta. Even worse because all that Yankee fan said to set this off was common knowledge about Papi's positve test in 2003 and its impact on his Hall of Fame chances. There was nothing wrong with that post so the whole vendetta seems to someone who doesn't come from BDC to be about nothing. I do love the energy and excitement a lot of the guys coming over from BDC bring, and I'm glad they're here, I've said that before and I stand by it and any more who want to come over will be welcome as far as I'm concerned. I just wish some of them could leave their vendettas against certain posters back at the old forum until those people demostrate they're up to the same antics here -- which in the case of that particular Yankee fan, hasn't happened yet.

you'd be lucky to trade clay in a deal that was similar to the Melancon trade -- bundled with some middling minor league talent to get a couple guys with a bit of immediate upside. Fortunately for us, one of those guys was Brock Holt. so if you can, target a bit player with some upside, and make the move. I don't think you can get a deal right now (or in the preseason, since Clay hadn't been great in 2015 either) that would get you more back than that. It's not like other teams don't know about his dependability issues. A team's not going to trade a big asset for a guy they can't count on. Any team that traded for Buchholz would trade for him because they thought they could fix him. That changes the discussion of exactly what we should expect to get back.

You can when those 3-4 keep casting it as a group issue (a BDC specific issue with trolling by Babe)

Sure, but it's 3-4 folks from BDC. Any group of people has to deal with the reputation the worst people of that group earns them. If the 3-4 agitators can't see how it's tarnishing the rep of the rest of the guys who are coming over from that forum, that's kind of on them.

Guys..... stop. Please. Just stop. you're opening a new topic from a thread you know YOTN closed, and you're doing it to restart an argument that you know was the whole reason the thread was closed. All to pursue a vendetta against a single poster *who has broken zero rules on this forum* At the very very least, this thread belongs in the "Damn Yankees" forum. If it belongs anywhere, which I don't believe it does. Leave the BDC crap in BDC. Drop the vendetta against Babe until he proves *here* that he deserves it. Unlike you BDC folks we know how to deal with those people. If he steps out of line here he's going to get swatted and he knows it, so he's doing the smart thing, and staying just inside the rules. that's exactly what a good troll does if he wants to be a regular, it's a sign that the system works, and Babe gets it. Right now it's you guys who are just completely failing to understand how the game works. Babe is behaving like a very abrasive but contributing member of the community so going after him in any way is far more likely to get you guys sanctioned than him. So for the love of God let us deal with them, this is a well moderated forum, believe it or not we have seen and banned trolls before and they have NOT come back. There is no need for this kind of aggressive personal vendetta here. Drop it. If you can't drop it, you will wind up dropped. This is not a threat, this is a warning based on things we've already seen happen with other refugees from the BDC forum. We've already lost a couple BDC guys because they didn't seem to believe they needed to listen to the moderator and could just say whatever and keep picking fights after *repeatedly* being told to let it drop. Again THIS IS A WELL MODERATED FORUM, and that means that the Sox fans have to behave too and so far here just counting Talksox posts (which are the only ones I get to see) you guys have trolled Babe *FAR FAR MORE* than Babe has trolled you. I'm getting tired of reading this, and YOTN is as agitated over your antics as I've ever seen him. For your own sakes guys, LET IT GO!

To be technical, he said it made sense to pick up the option, not that he agreed with doing so. Those two statements don't quite mean the same thing.

UN is right. Slasher, Buchholz has been horrible all year, and that one start is just barely a "quality" start, and so fundamentally unsound that it doesn't really count as a bright spot (so many walks and hits allowed that he was damn lucky he only gave up 3 ER) You compare that with Kelly's start, which by any objective standard was a bright point and a good sign of things to come, and there just is no comparison. Buchholz might have pulled out of the steep nosedive he was in, but that doesn't by any means indicate that he is pitching anywhere near well.

Bogaerts. I consider them all equally as talented, and if you want a tiebreaker, it's hard to go wrong siding with the guy who already has direct World Series experience. If I wanted to build a franchise from scratch, talent isn't the only consideration -- a great young shortstop is good, a great young shortstop who's already seen the view from the top is even better.

Well one of those two bastards is going into the pen. We're not going to go to a 6 man rotation just for the pleasure of having the worst of those two remain in the rotation.

UN is exactly right. I'd rather have a steady guy who isn't the best, than a peaks-and-valleys guy who you can't even count on to be there all year. Buchholz is exactly the kind of pitcher I hate to have on a team. He's maddeningly inconsistent, so you can't just dismiss the possibility that he's going to be great, but you'd be an idiot to count on it. His existence always puts one rotation spot in limbo in the offseason -- you know you're going to need to cover at least some of the innings you should be able to count on that starter to pitch, but he's there so you can't bring in a pro to do it. A better calculation of WAR in the case of a guy like Buchholz would be to calculate the value of his production, then add all the innings he didn't pitch that an average starter would have pitched (the difference between whatever he gives you and 180 innings) as exactly replacement level production. Because however much of the season he doesn't pitch, a scrub is probably pitching those innings.

As much crap as this rotation has gotten so far this year our top 3 starters have respectively averaged 6 1/3 innings, 6 1/3 innings and 6 2/3 innings per start. I don't think there's a stat on this team more important than the fact that our offensive ourburst has been met by a very durable top of the rotation. This means that the positions we're sorting out are really the 4 and 5 spots, and puts the whole question of the rotation in a new light. In fact if we get Erod back and one of Buchholz and Kelly stabilizes the last spot in the rotation, we are going to have one heck of a pitching staff -- at least until the next thing goes wrong. I also love the fact that wright has the only 2 complete games on the team so far. He's doing what a great #3 starter does, which is exactly what we needed him to do and more than we could have hoped for.

There's a few guys that history has missed. Hope Papi isn't one of them down the road.

you guys are a bit oversensitive perhaps? I'm talking about a subset determined by behavior not race. the Mexican illegal population is just the most numerous example of a group that comes here en masse and isn't all that interested in truly integrating. if you come to a new place and intend to stay there, you should learn how that place does its business and be prepared to follow suit as much as you can. If you can't, you probably won't last very long. It's a lesson I learned the hard way several times vis-a-vis online communities.

That is an answer to the question. it's literally impossible to go wrong from what we know right now.

Pity Evans is done as a candidate. He's more deserving than a lot of those guys, dude was way ahead of his time as a player, especially as a hitter.

*I am fully aware that this will kill me. Now watch me do it." Good god, I thought I was indifferent to logic? Is that whole speil really something you couldn't have said in PM? Especially since you already know that YOTN is getting a little agitated about the conduct of the BDC imports in this thread? YOTN is one of the most laid back chill cool dudes I've ever seen moderate a forum. If he seems angry to you, it's because you guys are doing a terrific job of not listening to his guidelines about how he'd like this forum to be. You guys are like the Mexican illegals who took over the Southwest, you want everything to be in your language How about instead of trying to turn this place into BDC you learn the culture on THIS forum a little better? You liked us good enough to come here, how about you decide to like us well enough to fit in here? you guys just don't need to stress about Babe as much as you are. If he's that bad, he'll out himself. The solution to guys like that isn't to get the torches and pitch forks, it's to give them the rope they need to hang themselves. And we here have been swatting Yankee contribs in this board who try their hand at trolling for a very long time. We don't have a problem with these guys. If you do, take it off board, mmk?

My answer to that question is "yes." And if forced to pick one or the other my decision is that that decision doesn't matter. Either of those players would be a franchise centerpiece, and so would Bogaerts. If I was given a selection of luxury cars that I could pick one of to drive for the rest of my life, any one of those would represent a major upgrade over my current ride, so it almost doesn't matter which one I picked, they'd all be a good choice. One thing for sure, these guys all have ceilings so high that you can't make a judgment call based on current performance. We thought we knew the answer between Nomar and Jeter in the early oughts, but the cold fact is that Jeter was the better player overall, even with his shortcomings on defense. Nomar started out being vastly superior, but he didn't hold up, and was gone within 10 years to Jeter's 20 giving us exactly 0 World Series wins and far fewer strong postseason performances into the bargain..

Don't do that. You've got some sympathy because of the antics of the guys arguing (badly) against you, don't throw that way by making cheap shots. I still maintain that the reasonable standard for when they should be a "cloud" over a player ought to be at least 2 failed tests, especially in the absence of any other direct evidence of PED abuse. One might be a false positive or else an isolated mistake. two suggests a pattern.

I agree with Fred in principle. There's more to lose than there is to gain in calling Eddie up too quickly. Our place in the division standings gives us the luxury of time, to make sure we get this kid right. Be a shame not to use it, especially if the weakened knee might do what a weak knee sometimes does, and makes him overstress some other part of his body (shoulder or elbow) to compensate.

84 is a very small number of at bats to judge a hitter who'd been inactive for over a year before those at bats. I am not surprised at all that CV is having a little trouble finding ball with bat. He's not that great to begin with and add the long layoff to that, a certain adjustment period is very normal. I don't think he'll be hitting that poorly at the end of the season.

Slasher, stop spamming please. you could have put all that in a single post.

“I called my agent and asked what was going on,’’ Ortiz wrote. “He didn’t have any answers for me. I called the MLB Players’ Association and they didn’t have any answers for me. To this day, nobody has any answers for me. Nobody can tell me what I supposedly tested positive for. They say they legally can’t, because the tests were never supposed to be public.” Ortiz knew he would be tested that spring. Players and owners, under fire from Congress, had agreed to confidential screenings of every major leaguer to gauge the scope of steroid use in baseball. “I believed I had nothing to be afraid of,’’ Ortiz said. “I never thought I could buy anything over the counter that would get me in trouble.’’ https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/03/26/david-ortiz-still-haunted-failed-drug-test/Cvcd1E7am8OybqLpNA6uKP/story.html How the hell can you accuse anyone of abusing PED's when no one even actually knows exactly what he is supposed to have used? Especially in context of the fact that about 5-10% of PED tests will result in false positives. That may seem like good odds, but when you're talking about disqualifying one of the best hitters in history for the rewards he would be due for his performance, such as Hall of Fame credentials, I think that at the bare minimum you should have at least 2 failed tests to back it up, when we're talking about a potential false positive utterly screwing a guy over I don't think I'm being completely unreasonable here Anyone can make an allegation. but unless that allegation is backed by *some* kind of due process, like Clemens or Bonds or A-Rod, or at least confirmed from multiple sources regarding multiple incidents (not just one test 13 years ago) such as McGwire or Sosa, I don't think it should be taken all that seriously. Without a second failed test or even clear details about what he is said to have abused, there just isn't enough information for a fair-minded fan (if that isn't an oxymoron) to pass judgment on a guy. In the absence of any additional proof, this is an accusation of convenience by people drinking the haterade, nothing more.

Wright is still your top starter statistically. You don't move a guy who's your best pitcher so far this year to the bullpen. The rotation cannot spare him until and unless he starts to falter and other people start playing up to their ability. If we got by merit, the guy moving to the pen will be Clay Buchholz.

I would too, he's been doing very well with an Guardians franchise that isn't strong enough to give him much to work with. I think it's impressive with the struggles and mediocricy he's encountered with Cleveland that Tito has yet to hand management a losing season.

But it does mean that money that could have gone to a more consistent lower rotation pitcher will go to Buchholz instead. I believe the relevant aphorism is "throwing good money after bad."