Dojji

Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got til it's gone?

I wouldn't say we were in good shape. We're not in terrible shape however. The big league product is the worst part of the team right now but we are in a position that a few decent moves could seriously reduce the likelihood of an extended playoff drought, and we have players ready to potentially mature in the positions where we need them the most. The potential development for Rodriguez, Bogaerts, Betts and Swihart next year is exciting and could put us back on track faster than we'd hoped for. But we have a lot of dead money right now and the team leadership has some work to do. Our upper minors is also pretty empty of impending talent which is not the end of the world but is something to look out for.

I think we can all agree that scouting has handed us some real lemons recently. It's as good a time as any to do some house cleaning in that respect.

Yeah you want a top guy but it's nice to see the rotation starting to put it back together I wonder how much this coincidede with the return of Ryan Hanigan from his early season injury

Who says it's Vazquez? I guarantee you the catcher that other teams are asking for is Swihart with his combo of above average defense and a great hit potential. If the call is made to trade Swihart I won't have a huge beef, but the return better be really special, since you're mortgaging a potential franchise piece. If Swihart develops 20 HR power with his other athletic tools and very acceptable D, he's instantly one of the top 5 catchers in the league. He's got all the potential he needs to get there.

He's a good #4 or #5 starter on any team.

182 innings pitched 11 wins to 10 losses 4.34 ERA Peripherals exactly in line with career norms This on a losing team. Miley's been better than people let on sometimes. He's done exactly the same job he did in Arizona to this point, which is that average (99 ERA+ is basically average) inning burning bottom of the rotation guy. He's done that exactly as well as he did it last year for Arizona. If he didn't have the arms above him in the rotation to make his performance satisfactory by placing it lower in the depth chart that's really not his fault. Miley did start out rough and I'm sure that colored some perceptions of the guy but there's no denying he's really turned it around especially in the second half. Just felt he deserved some recognition for that even if no one would call him the ideal pitcher.

What pitching are you going to get for either of these guys right now? Neither are at the height of their value, and the one who is closest to that level as a trade prospect (Swihart) is the one that I'm less anxious to lose on the whole. I think you have to hold onto these guys until the deadline in order to make an informed decision on who to part with and that's a lot easier if Hanigan isn't there soaking up the roster spot and playing time 1 of them needs. I think you're kidding yourself. I don't see this team as contending next year, I think that it's a 3-5 year plan for this team because we need to let some of our youth really hit their peak before we're true contenders again (rather than just a wild card scrape-by team) Either way though, I don't think either of CV or Swihart would struggle to perform the duties that we expect of Hanigan next year. Let's be honest, Ryan Hanigan is not the be all of catching talent or experience. He's good, hes' a useful catcher to a contending team, but he's a luxury we can't afford when we need to get 2 major league ready catchers into the lineup next year.

You know it's entirely possible that the solution is going to be, to trade Ryan Hanigan. Go with CV and Swihart with a backup plan of Sandy Leon down in Pawtucket. That's a good catching corps. If we were on the cusp of a championship I would not agree but we aren't, and these are 2 good young catchers who are both at a stage where they need major league time, and a veteran guy like Hanigan is a luxury we can't afford in this context -- if we were going for the top next year we'd absolutely need Hanigan, but we need to develop as much young talent as possible next year and that means 2 young catchers is the better solution. Swihart and CV should be able to split catching duties. I would approve of Swihart also being given time at other positions just to get his bat in the lineup. If that is done, there should be enough playing time for 2 young catchers to develop. I think it's possible that longterm Swihart is the starter and Vazquez is one of those valuable backups that you can put in there without sacrificing quality in the catcher's position. It would break down that way if Vazquez struggles at the plate and Swihart doesn't which is easily possible. In the meantime before we find out one way or the other neither should have the precedent of being "starter." Let that be a prize to fight for and see where we stand at the deadline whether one of those guys isn't more valuable to another team than he is to us. I don't think either of these young catchers should be traded in the offseason though -- Hanigan is more expendable than either of them.

Where is he going to play? Do you really think Travis Shaw is going to be our everyday 1B? Are you really happy with the Panda's performance at third? He'll find places to play, don't you doubt it. I'd rate Swihart as an above average catcher defensively but nothing special. If Vazquez can put up something around .250/.330/.360, with the special kind of defense he's capable of he's got to be our starting catcher. Swihart's going to learn to hit well enough to play the corrners and he's played 1B 3B RF LF in college. He'll find somewhere to play I have no doubt at all.

Is it possible that Swihart is athletic enough for third base? Bearing in mind that the Panda is a converted catcher. And Swihart does seem to be something other than the stereotypical fat slow catcher.

Exactly. Fenway is a mediocre fly ball park but the best line drive park in the league. Players with good eyes and top of the line bat control tend to be a lot more effective here than all or nothing guys.

JBJ doesn't have the value to be a meaningful part of that kind of package. If we can get a full year of above replacement level CF out of him that's probably more than we can expect his value in trade to reflect.

Very happy with the overall package of Bogaerts. My concern about his range is mostly just a quibble, although it is a little unfortunate that his worst attribute (still decent) is the one that's probably the most important for a shortstop but turning away a great player just because he's not perfect isn't smart. Bogaerts at shortstop fixes something that's been a perennial problem for the Red Sox ever since we lost Nomar. I'd still love to upgrade defensively at third base if possible, I think we need to tighten that defense as much as we can. We'll see what the market will bear.

I think it's more important to load up on speed and OBP. Power leaguewide is recovering a bit but is still down compared to the last few decades. Get 'em on, get 'em over, get 'em in, seems to be the way good teams are playing in this era.

That's a reasonable package and a reasonable thing to hope for. There's always the chance he adds really solid doubles power to it especially if he gets consistent reps.

... at a time when the pitching is watered down and a lot of the best arms have been shut down and replaced with AAAA guys whenever you face noncontenders. I'm going to be happy when JBJ keeps this going next year but he hasn't done it yet. September runs tend to mean almost as little as Spring Training runs however.

I didn't say otherwise. It's not a controversial point that small guys deteriorate FASTER as they age than normal guys. Why you think that means I'm aghast over the fact that players deteriorate at all is a statement against either my ability to communicate or your ability to read English, probably the latter.

No, not when they're that young. But when they hit the late 30's those little guys tend to deteriorate faster than full sized players. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these guys had great years and the team turned around and sold high.

Oh no, a reliever is having a bad stretch of games in a season that no longer matters, get the torches and pitchforks.

Gfy

I don't think Matt Harvey's coming here. Could be wrong of course but my sense of things is that the Red Sox will look to free agency. Don't be too surprised if they look across the ocean too, I'm not sure what the IFA market looks like but the Red Sox aren't afraid to go that route if they think it'll benefit them.

NFW. Unless you get one of the top 5 picks or so (and we won't) it's just not likely to gain you anything considering how undependable draft picks are in MLB. Far better to make the rest of the season as entertaining as you can.

I really disagree with you YOTN. Let's use the example of Babylon 5. It was alloweds to play itself all the way out despite threat of cancellation after season 4, and it still has a rabid following.

The team is now playing for next year. They're enjoyable enough if you watch them on that basis.