Gom

I don't see why you can't get added. SFOC, please add 26. If you need to pair him up, Yankee20715 will definitely play.

You've gotta stop hitting that bong Crespo.

You're an idiot. You made a s***** analogy stressing weight-lifting as a reason for pitchers. I tried another one as runners, showing the wear and tear on the joints. You're f***ing clueless. According to you, if you bust your ass multiple times a week, you'll get better. Moron. Go back to sleep.

Ok...you were making the analogy of pitchers being weight-lifters, and I was saying they were more like runners. That's all. I tried to make an analogy like you did...but when I do it, it's idiotic, strawman, or both? That makes sense, I guess. :thumbdown

What? I don't understand what you're trying to say. Papelbon is a starting pitcher? Huh? Someone please explain.

I respectfully disagree. I will explain why. Throwing a baseball effectively is not the result of exercise as much as it is due to a genetic pre-disposition. In other words, you're born with the ability to throw a fastball. Unlike working out, where pretty much anyone with the right diet and exercise regimen can be an adonis, pitching is not the same. It is basically the flexibility in the tendons and ligaments and their elasticity in the elbow and shoulder. This is not to say that you can't improve it to a degree, but it is generally a product of genetics. The propensity for injury is best correlated by the number of times this activity takes place. Most injuries happen when the pitcher is fatigued, and a pitcher is fatigued more as he logs more pitches in his arm. This is pretty much common sense, regardless of other factors. A base-line truth, so to speak. A better example would have been runners. Starting pitchers are marathon-runners, while relievers are sprinters. By their very nature, starting pitchers/runners need a longer period of rest between activities, to allow the body to heal and to rest and recover. You can't go out and run a marathon every day. Relivers/sprinters often exert more energy in a short period of time, however, their recovery period is shorter. You can relieve pretty much every day, and you can sprint every day. However, the total amount of pitches/distance run is the biggest factor in predicting injury probabilities. Somehow, ORS found the only Doctor who disagreed with logic. :thumbsup: Jab aside, I respectfully believe that your analogy is not very accurate.

Just a few more things... Although he signed the deal a year later, they were both considered equivalent service time players. Apples to apples. No. Unless you count Joba and Hughes one person. Then, depending on how you name it, it would be called Hughba of Jughes [pronounced "jews"] Umm...what? There isn't a single one of us that knows any of these people except for what we read or see on TV. From what I've seen, he's full of s***. From his statements in the press..which is what all of us really ever know, I know what he's said. The fact that you claim to be a mental health professional is truly frightening. Were you one of the people in this article? Yes, but when you're NEVER critical, you're not objective. I agree to let this pass and see where it goes. However, I have a feeling that someone in the Red Sox FO pointed out the discrepency I was trying to point out [maybe even the commish's office]. I'd be curious to see what Lester signs for.

Who are you to determine how much money they should spend? Last I checked, the owners of the team make that decision. As fans, we question and judge them..but it's their choice. Find me one time I said the Yankees were "efficient" in their spending. Really? Then when a team signs a player for $40 million more than anyone else does...who cares? When a team outspends the next team by nearly 30%, who cares? Why sign a comparable player fox X dollars...when you can sign a similar player for double the price? This quote is possibly the dumbest thing you've ever said example1, and you're not prone to dumb statments. In this aspect, I am on the fence. I think that pitching is more important than hitting myself, but I also think that pitching is harder to predict. That is the reason, in my opinion, that pitchers make less than hitters early in their careers [arbitration]. Since this is the case, it's not fair to equate pitchers and hitters in this example, which is what I have been saying. You really can't be serious. For the zillionth time, I never said it was a bad idea for the Sox....and THE ENTIRE REASON FOR MY POST WAS THAT HENRY WASN'T PAYING HIM A RELATIVE SALARY, BUT A GROSSLY INFLATED ONE. Already answered. So can we say the same thing about Hughes? What about Joba? They've both been injured. If you remember, going into last season, very few people thought Lester was worth more than Buchholz. Nearly everyone thought that putting Lester in the Santana deal would be good. Lester, for the most part, was a nice end of the rotation starter, while Buchholz was an ace in the making. My goodness.... Lugo...I can't remember anyone commending him on the deal WHEN it was signed. I debate things, just like you. It just baffles me that you can't be objective here. I do have a huge ego, I admit. However, this wasn't an ego-driven comment, it was a logical one. Ok..so 60% more than a comparable player, one that is nearly identical in WHIP and ERA and age is well within the AAV range of a player with the same service time? In a worse economic time...where players like Abreu took $10 million paycuts? Yeah that makes sense...about as much sense as comparing a player who has two years of eligibility and is not eligible for arbitration to a super two/three who is eligible for arbitration. WTF? Ok...so Jeter said that Ortiz is piece of s*** who injected steroids and human growth hormone and is covering up his own usage by talking about it as a misdirection tactic. He never said it..but I believe I heard it from someone who knows his doorman who heard one of his one night stands say it as she left in the morning. I have a very strong dislike for Henry for being a two-faced self-serving liar. I respect people for what they do and what they say. I like Epstein, and wish he worked for the Yankees. I am not a fan of Lucchino, and I despise Henry. I like Pedroia for the way he plays the game and gets more out of his talent than probably anyone in baseball. The fact that one of my favorite players, Jeter, has gotten friendly with Pedroia shows me that they are both probably the same type of player, just wearing different uniforms. I get the feeling that these guys would probably play the game for free on the streets of a city. I hate Youkilis for seeminly caring more about his personal stats and having temper-tantrums every time he strikes out. I hated Ortiz [and I love watching this replay] when he cut out cups and stuck them on his ears as if he couldn't hear the crowd when the Red Sox were up 5-2 in game 7 of the 2003 ALCS. This has been off-set and dwarfed by his charitable golf tournament which drew some of baseball's biggest stars to help, among other things, children who need heart surgery. Henry is full of s***. If you can't see it, you're just not objective, and the lack the ability to do so. When you can be as critical of your team as I am of mine, come and talk to me.

If the Dominicans went home, it must be early March.

Eh...

Which one?

Most pitcher injuries tend to happen due to fatigue. One reason that relievers can pitch so frequently is that they don't get fatigued as much per appearance.

Wow...talk about the pot calling the kettle black. What I was showing was an honest owner calling for competitive balance and not someone who whines about one or two particular deals in which his team was directly involved. This wasn't arguing about the team, and you know it. Just worry about Papelbon coming over when he's a free agent. This homegrown talent you are so proud of is a recent development, and is not a guarantee to continue. Without Manny being signed as a free agent, we'd still be chanting 1918. What's funny is that you a lot of you guys think star players will keep coming up. You sound like Yankee fans.

Common sense.

I didn't realize Henry was unique here. Come to think of...I think every owner in the history of all sports would want that...but what do I know? Buddy...have you been paying attention to this thread? I didn't say they didn't make good deals, didn't build a good team...JEEZ...all I said was...hell...I'll give you a clue...he signed a deal that blew away the previous ______________ [rhymes witch "decadent"]. Useless. Not up for debate. Considering..and the games haven't begun yet...but imagine if you signed Tex, and now we find out about Arod's injury. We won't debate the Tex move, that was done before..and is actually irrelevant. You're setting a record for irrelevant topics, AKA "strawman". OH MY GOD. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING. IF HE COMPLAINED ABOUT THIS...HE'D MAKE SENSE. THE YANKEES WOULD BE AFFECTING THE MARKET IN A NEGATIVE WAY FOR ALL TEAMS, ESPECIALLY SMALL AND MEDIUM MARKET TEAMS. CONSIDERING THE YANKEES PUT BACK 40% [i BELIEVE] OF EVERY DEAL THEY GO OVER THE LUXURY TAX, THOSE DEALS ACTUALLY HELP THE POORER TEAMS. A DEAL LIKE THIS WOULD HURT THOSE POORER TEAMS WITHOUT EVEN GIVING THEM THE BENEFIT OF THE ADDED INCOME FROM THE LUXURY TAX. HOLY s***!!!! Is there anyone here at Talksox who has a shred of objectivity besides Kilo? Anyone? All of baseball knew that the Yankees were going to throw big money at CC. Nothing was said. The Yankees and Braves bid pretty much the same money, but AJ wanted to stay in the AL East, so he chose the Yankees. The Red Sox, in nearly everyone's opinion on this board, dropped the ball with Tex's dealing. The Yankees swooped in after the door was opened by the Red Sox's FO's "blunder" and grabbed Tex. So...when does Henry complain? After the Tex signing. Who could have foreseen it? Flash back to 2004. Red Sox are in the news for potentially dealing for Arod all winter. For whatever reason, the deal falls through. The Yankees swoop in and make a deal for Arod on February 15. On February 22nd, Henry calls for a cap. So...when does Henry complain? After the Arod signing. Who could have foreseen it? Let's deal with some FACTS. 2004: Red Sox fail in their attempt for acquiring Arod, having a gap of approximately $1 million annualy [if memory serves me correctly] that he was unable to bridge. Yankees trade for him. Henry calls for a salary cap. FACT. 2006: Henry has one of the wildest spending sprees, if not the most expensive off-seasons ever at the time when his team spends over $250 million in signing and posting fees for Dice-K. No mention of a salary cap. FACT. 2009: In last week of December, after failed negotiations between Mark Teixeira and the Red Sox, the Yankees swoop in and sign Teixeira to a deal that is approximately $1 million more annually than the Sox did [does any of this sound familiar to you?]. Not a sound was heard from Henry after CC and Burnett signed, rather, the plea was made AFTER Teixeira chose the Yankees. FACT. 2009: Continued...according to reports, the Red Sox had agreed to a deal with Lester, a fine young pitcher and individual, that would have paid Lester 60% more than the precedent set the previous season by a pitcher who had nearly identical statistics [Carmona had a better ERA and WHIP, but played in the AL Central which was slightly less competitive than AL East]. Not a peep is heard about a cap. Henry has called for a cap TWICE. Both times, after his team was unable to make a deal for a star player...and that same player ended up with the Yankees. THAT'S IT. When Henry loses, the f***ing egomaniac can't believe he botched the deal, so he looks to blame someone else for his organization's f*** up. I can tell you of a hypothetical time when Henry would have called for a cap. If the Yankees pulled off the deal for Santana. It's like clockwork. Red Sox botch negotiations. Yankees sneak in and grab the player. Henry calls for a cap. Rinse, repeat. When Matsui comes off the books after this season, and say the Yankees go get Holliday for roughly the same money...after the Red Sox have been rumored to get Holliday...he'll call for a cap again. He made a $200 million splash getting Dice-K, Lugo, and Drew. He nearly DOUBLED the next highest bid for Dice-K. He, according to reports, was willing to give Lester 60% more than Carmona got the year before in better economic times. No one has a right to say anything about the Yankees here. The Yankees are steadfastly against the cap. They spend accordingly. It is their right. They spend their money, and they pay the luxury tax. Say what you will, but you can't call them hypocrites in their spending habits. They say they will spend, and then they go out and do it. The Red Sox are a well run organization. They have a right to spend their money the way they see fit. They have won the most World Championships this decade, and are a well-stocked team. They have made some excellent moves [and some bad ones too] and have a good nucleus, and from what I read, have a strong farm system as well. This is not a comparison of the Red Sox and the Yankees in any way. This is not whether the deals are good for the Red Sox or not [i think locking up Pedroia, Lester, and Youkilis is a great move for the Red Sox]. What MY WHOLE POINT was that Henry is a hypocritical liar who has no problem throwing boatloads of cash to get his players [see Dice-K, Lugo, Drew, rumored Lester deal], but cries like a baby when his team drops the ball on a certain player that ends up going to the Yankees [see Arod, Tex]. In fact...THAT'S THE ONLY TIME HE'S EVER DONE IT. I could buy it if he didn't throw money around like crazy himself, and overbid/pay by 50% and over. I could buy it more if he makes the comments after ANY DEAL where his team didn't get burned. The most obvious case of sour grapes in Baseball Front Office history, and you guys are too blinded by your fandom to see it. You wouldn't know objectivity if it sat on your face and wriggled. If you want to go around believing your owner is God's gift to baseball, that's your problem, not mine. I don't think the new Yankee owners are perfect. Hank was right on trading for Santana, and wrong to overbid on Arod. I call it as I see it. Hank is full of hot air, bluster, and bile...he's his father without his father's baseball acumen and cult of personality. It's too bad, because I do like Hank. George was bigger than life, so to speak, and I liked it. It was always entertaining. George was full of s*** [like anyone on Earth believed he would move the Yankees to New Jersey], but I loved him as an owner. Henry seems like he has a lot of Old George's personality. However, he is completely and unadulteratedly full of s*** when it comes to his stance on a potential cap...and if there is a SINGLE Red Sox fan who after reading this post doesn't think so, then that fan is a complete moron, I'm sorry to say.

Here is a Q&A with Rays owner Stu Sternberg: Read this...and realize that unlike that hypocritical piece of s*** Henry, here's a guy who speaks the truth. I'd say enjoy, but heaven forbid I point out someone in Red Sox fantasy land is a dumbass. I wonder if he would have changed his tune if he tried to sign Burrell and then lost him to the Yankees after he offered him 100K less than he was asking.

This guy seems ok. I won't rip him yet.

Come on example1...it makes all the difference in negotiating power. This has nothing to do with cancer...just that he hasn't put in major league time. I'd say the same thing if he had TJ surgery. God..how many times do I have to say it's about the AAV of the salary... What's your point? Once again...I complained about the AAV of the contract. Finally...some sense on what I'm saying. My thing is this...and has always been this...go back to my first post. If you're going to sign a player that you control that has similar numbers and there is a precedent in Carmona who signed during a better economic time, and you increase that AAV by 60%...then you're full of s*** when it comes to a whining about a cap, Mr. Henry. Interesting read. Thank you. Not really. Considering the two big posters who are Yankee fans are Jacko and 26, it's not like I had much to compete with. Even you have to agree with me there. True. I was wondering when someone would bring that point up so I could debate it. The Red Sox could say to him...look, you'll make peanuts this year..why not take some money now and we'll reward you with some security. You are a pitcher, and historically there's more risk, and you are a cancer-survivor." No matter the negotiating, the team has the upper hand. I hate steroids in baseball. I understand that players are humans who make mistakes, and I didn't want Pettitte back. I didn't care for Giambi coming back either, and if the Yankees could void Arod's contract and spread that money around to other players, I'd be all for it. Yes, I'm a season ticket holder, because first and foremost, I'm a fan of my team, and then of baseball in general. I don't like steroids, and I've listed what I feel should be the punishment for it. I have season tickets because I'm not only a fan, but I am a businessman who sells them and gives some away to clients. I never, ever said anything bad about Lester. From what I've seen on TV and read, he's a fine young man and I respect him for his talent, his heart, and his ordeal in going through cancer. I think Henry, however, is a lying weasel who cries whenever his front office f***s up and blames the Yankees instead of looking in the mirror. The Red Sox should have got Arod. The Red Sox should have signed Tex. Every sign pointed that way, and only after it blew up in their face, and the Yankees swept in, he whined and bitched. Then he makes an offer for a player under his control that blows away a precedent..all the while crying about the Yankees spending money. Don't kid yourself. Switch franchises, give Henry the Yankees...and he'd spend money just as bad, if not worse than the Yankees. That's why he's full of s***. He only cries because the one team he can't/won't compete with is in his division. And...after all this...the deal never went through...Lester signed a one-year deal. Terms to be disclosed.

Diaper, you have no idea how happy I am your country s*** the bed. The Netherlands? LOL!

If I pay you..will you shove one of those shot glasses you're selling up your ass?

Actually, I agree with the article. I think the Red Sox did a great job..especially with Smoltz and Saito. I think that Penny and Baldelli will be pretty much non-factors, but Smoltz and Saito could be lights out for you guys. You roll the dice, and sometimes you get lucky. It seems like there is a lot of potential...Saito could be the righty answer to Oki, and Smoltz could end up giving the Sox the best rotation come October. Apparently BSN07, you can't read. I'm about as objective as they come here.