Gom

It's irrespective, not irregardless.

I don't think any team cheats when it comes to trading in today's market. It's not a Yankee thing, or a Red Sox thing. Secondly....there is no evidence of ANYTHING. There is no evidence the Sox cheated. There is no evidence the Yankees cheated. However, I believe, and any rational person would have to agree that there is more "smoke" in the Drew/Matsuzaka/Millar deals than there is in the Nady/Marte deal. Reason being? There is nothing to even question there. Show me one link where someone in baseball says that there is a side deal or there was anything under the table. All we have is some ******** you posted about wins/losses per deal. If you take out the Abreu deal, which was nothing more than a salary dump for the Phillies, and factor that the Yankees trade prospects for veterans, your analysis has NO MERIT WHATSOEVER. I'm not "probably wrong". There is a better chance of me starting in LF for the Red Sox than me being wrong. You couldn't be more wrong than if you danced at a gay cabaret. This is so cut and dry, it's not even funny. Stop bitching about the Yankees "cheating", which everyone else in baseball is calling a job well done by Cashman. You can't even give credit where it is due when it is due. A team winning a deal is NOT cheating. So if Tabata turns into a star, and Ohlendorf turns into a solid starting pitcher...did the Pirates cheat? When two teams trade with each other, one wins, loses, or it's even. It's not even or cheat. That's it. When you can show me something outside of a three year analysis of deadline deals that is A) Too small a sample size Too little time to analyze C) Doesn't take into effect the goals of the particpants involved, then come back and post here in this thread. You brought it up. Now back it up. Show me a link where someone puts his name next to an allegation that the Yankees are somehow cheating, and fine, I'll give this round to you. I gave you an article that quoted Colletti, and stated that MLB was looking into the transactions of the Red Sox with Millar and Dice-K. All we have is allegations, and most of us know in baseball that allegations are as far as they ever go 99% of the time, because it's just bad business to show cheating in any way. You eliminate the "trust" the public has in a fair outcome. Just ask the NBA. I'm not asking you for proof, because everyone knows it isn't there. Get me allegations that the Yankees cheated in the Nady/Marte deal or shut up about this already. Enough. Anonymous GMs grumbling that the Yankees pulled off a deal that they "could have done better" doesn't count. Did I "allege" the Red Sox cheated? No. I believe they bent the rules, but like I said before, considering our competitive advantage, I'd be a hypocrite to complain. All I said is that there is more smoke considering what the Sox have done than what the Yankees have done. That's as close to a fact we will ever get without proof, i.e. tampering charges actually filed. I can't help but insult stupidity, sorry. Get me proof. Other than that, as far as I'm concerned, this thread is closed.

Shut the f*** up yeszir.

It's actually me and ORS. We agree often, actually. We have our epic confrontations, but we leave it in that thread. It's not personal, and as far as online "friends" go, we get along pretty well in my book. I know he takes pleasure in this, but I think he's as sharp as they come here and usually correct. Except when he's arguing with me when he's obviously wrong and being obtuse. I have a feeling he kinda feels the same way.

So basically, you're in agreement with me that it's a pretty useless stat. Like you, I don't buy the "clutch" thing. Never have.

So what you're saying is that the .216 RISP is useless as a stat. In fact, RISP is useless as a stat overall, since invariably, given enough time, a hitter should hit the same in all situations, given a large enough sample size. In other words, a player's batting average should be the same throughout, irrespective of the situation. I'm seriously not being sarcastic, but I'd buy that. I kinda think it's a bit of a useless statistic myself.

You want me to define trade as it applies to baseball? Ok, a trade is where one team trades one player for another. It can be expanded to multiple players, future consideration of a player [PTBNL] or cash, or any combination thereof. That's the best I can do without going to look at the baseball charter.

I feel the same way. Once again, this all started by him believing that there was something going on under the table. I said it's ********. You know what? Teams giving "special consideration" on trades is ********. Now...do I believe s*** goes on with free agents, and free agents to be? Of course. Have the Red Sox done it? Yup. No doubt in my mind. Have the Yankees done it? I'm sure they have. I'll point out one example. David Wells reneging on his hand-shake agreement with the Diamondbacks. Agents get cozy with GMs and vice versa. However, trades are a different thing completely. That's what I've been saying all along.

No matter how you dress up a pig, it's still a pig. I was sorely mistaken in thinking you had some intelligence in the matter. There is enough erroneous information out there in today's "information" age. Take enough time, and I'm sure you'll find enough corroborating evidence telling you the world is flat. No research is needed to combat outright stupidity. Sorry if you find it insulting, I am telling the truth. See, I come from the school of common sense. Let me give you an example: A team trading prospects for veterans will invariable come out behind in three years. Why? Most of the prospects they are trading for won't be in the majors for a year or so in the first place. So the logic is flawed from the beginning. As a scientist, you come up with a hypothesis, and then do tests to prove or disprove the hypothesis. If the hypothesis is inherently illogical, why bother with the tests? I can shoot down 90% of what the both of your minds try to come up with BEFORE you even start looking with something all your research has never been able to give either of you. Common sense. When you're right, I give you credit. When you're wrong, I let you know it. The Yankees are in a win now mode. Have been for 12 years. Their deadline deals that involve them giving up prospects for veterans will invariably show a net win for them over three years. It should. Think about it. Put down your charts and THINK. Try that, the both of you. Come up with a hypothesis before you go searching for data. Who do you think will win the deal for Santana, or Sabathia over the next three years? It's pretty much a given. When you start thinking, then our discussions will go to another level, one that will transcend our rivalries and come up with some interesting and enlightening discussion. My post about what would be the best options if Manny was put on waivers did not elicit a response. You call it fluff, I call it thinking. Move forward. Learn. Apply what you see, instead of regurgitate it. So take your data and shove it. I'm not against using data when I don't know or want clarification. I don't need to research things to know that Manny is a better hitter right now than Jason Bay. Yankees made a good trade. Not a conspiracy. Anyone thinking so is a fool Anyone defending such a fool is a bigger one. This post has accomplished one thing. I feel much dumber for involving myself in this discussion. I feel like I've lost 20 IQ points debating you and JHB. Don't insult yourself or JHB by comparing yourselves to me. That's an insult I'd never post. That's just being mean.

You really would rather have Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen instead of Jason Bay?

Ok....I am so loving today, nothing like a Red Sox fans anguish to make a Yankee fan happy....but putting that aside.... This is the best you guys could have done. The FO botched this with Manny, but that's water under the bridge. Manny simply wasn't going to play in Boston anymore. You would have had more phantom ailments, at bats in question, lackluster play, etc. Bay's numbers are close. He's no Manny, but you weren't going to get equal value. Hansen and Moss are no loss, and in Hansen's case it may just be addition by subtraction. Plus, you got a LF for next year, and can use the 13 million to play for CC or Sheets or Tex, etc in the offseason. You FO made the best of a bad situation. However, they are as much to fault as anyone. They should have realized that Manny on the field was your best option of winning.

I'm always trying to get laid. Figuring that you guys got screwed today, I figured it was fitting to start that here. :thumbsup:

Hope it wasn't a lot of money you lost, lol.

Hey JHB....guess the Pirates made up for the Nady/Marte deal, huh? ROFLMAO!

Wow....must have been a serious bet you lost there, lol.

What was the bet?

Your issue is your inability to read. The question is not who won the deal. It's whether there was any funny business, i.e. cheating, deal under the table etc. Now...take your X and Y and come up with a better answer. You're losing it in your old age, my favorite enemy.

Even more conspiracy. The Yankees were behind the assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand as well. Look it up. I'm sure JHB has a chart for it.

Who wants to be against me? I say Manny has 1.000+ OPS for the Dodgers the rest of the season. Any takers?

CONSPIRACY!!!!! Theo made the trade to help the Yankees win! I love this deal. It is a fantastic deal. Of course...I'm a Yankee fan. Thank you Theo Epstein, for giving us the wild card/division. You traded away a better player, plus two others to get an inferior player. This is almost as good as the Nady/Marte deal. Maybe even better. I figure the net gain for the Yankees over the Sox in the last few days is about 5 wins. Enjoy watching us in October.

I stand corrected. Manny is going to Torre land. Holy s***.

So..to get back to the original argument... What the Sox may have done is cheat [iMO opinion, it's a definite, but heaven forbid a Sox fan even contemplate the pios Red Sox FO of anything untoward]. What Hank did was bluster and say he'd never sign Arod, and then do the opposite? Where exactly is the connection? Why defend someone who is clueless ORS? Just because he's a Sox fan? I rip Jacko all day. More than likely, Red Sox bent/broke the rules and got away with it. Yankees made a legit trade. End of story. Even JHB has to see that by now.

aaanddd.....nothing. Zada. Zip. Zilch. 25 pages of nothing. Great. Screw you Manny. LOL!