jacksonianmarch

there are guys on the scrap heap all the time. These are two examples. If you wanted to get Jason Johnson or Kevin Mench right now for the rights to Abe Alvarez, you could. They'll play for the big leagues and suck, is that still a win? Just because they were on the big league roster does not mean they were good or useful. Can that get through your skull or not? Its like saying the Jason Johnson, Rudy Seanez and Mike Remlinger moves were wins for the sox. Flat out stupid.

Yankees up 8-5. Nady is on fire

NADY IS GOD! This is the kind of game that sparks a team for awhile

Nady just became a yankee!

you see JHB, I like ya. But your bias is showing big time. The fact that you are calling the Sal Fasano and Matt Lawton acquisitions wins for the yankees is just flat out hilarious and it makes your argument difficult to take seriously. I will give you this. The yankees have won far more than they have lost in their trade deadline dealings. This has to do with Cashman being able to take advantage of GMs in difficult spots and his ability to absorb salary. If you took away the yankee cash machine, half these deals dont get done

JHB is such a hypocrite. All about stats and evidence, yet will arbitrarily call a move a win when it was a flat out dump or had a negative impact on the team. Tool.

5-3 X to the Nady hitting well again

Mike Napoli made his MLB debut on 5/4/2006. In that season, he had a .815OPS which is pretty nice for a rookie catcher. Mathis made his MLB debut the yr before, but was in the minors for the majority of 2006. Mathis then was called up again in July of 2007. Napoli was the starting catcher at the time, but went down with an ankle sprain on 7/2/2007 and returned on 7/20. It is no coincidence that Molina was dealt when both Mathis and Napoli came back healthy and the only reason why Molina was used at that time was because of Napoli's injury. Hence, he was about to be demoted to 3rd string catcher. And on a team that thrives on the versatility of all of its players, a slow, no hit 3rd catcher doesnt have a place. He was subsequently DFAd and traded. While you might like to try and twist this one, the angels were getting rid of a waste of roster space. And at the time, Betemit was a bench player and Proctor was an oft used high leverage MR pitcher. The value given up was on our end. I dont know if you are going to accuse Cashman of having a crystal ball or maybe a witch because Proctor bombed out this yr. At the time, this looked like a bad deal. But it looks like we come up roses, I guess So it was all about the catcher? For a guy who loves stats, you dont like to use the rules pertaining to them when doing your analysis. A- 28 games is a s***** sample size. B- Fasano hit .143 with a blistering .508 OPS. Cmon now. Selective memory at its finest. Cmon Jayhawk, why are you still bitter about this one, you did win a WS you know. Remember the line from Theo about how the sox cannot compete with the yankees or some ******** like that. The reason why this fell through, granted through speculation which is all you or I have, is because the sox were going to try and have Philly eat about half the salary. The yankees came to the Phils and said, hell, here's our 2005 first rounder, figure him out. Need a lefty specialist, well take this kid who hasnt allowed a run all yr. And if you throw in Lidle, we'll take their salaries without you paying a dime. No team offered that. Admit it, you were outmaneuvered. Not a conspiracy, but another example of the yankee money machine working its magic. Wilson was awful for us. Chacon was awful for them. Again, remember, it is the pirates, but they werent getting much on the market for Wilson. The thing that made Chacon enticing was his playoff experience in NY, his streakiness and the fact that he was damn good ending the 05 campaign. Add in the fact that he was controlled and cheap, and you have a guy they might want. Remember, Littlefield was still the GM and he wasnt in the rebuild mode. he thought Chacon could be a useful starter getting the pirates back to .500 Tim Redding showed nothing at that time to warrant him staying with the team. Chacon and Wang outpitched him. Hell, so did Leiter. He was 27 and in his combined AAA and MLB stats that yr, he had an ERA near 7. What was the point in keeping him? He was a throwaway who happened to find an NL team to stick with. if he came back to NY, he'd suck again You once again show a lack of intellect on this topic. What in god's name did Chacon do in his time in Colorado or his time since 2005 to make you think he'd be that good down the stretch. Cashman has a knack for finding fringe players who will fit into the system for a short period of time and produce. Kinda like tampons. They are cheap, they hold back the flow for a short period of time, then you throw them away. You act like we have gotten 2 cy young winners over the past 3 yrs at the deadline for a box of chocolates and some used bubble gum. We continually get fringe players and they perform for a short period of time. Chacon is another instance of that. Calling all of these a win is pathetic. Just plain stupid. Some team passes a guy through waivers, the yankees pick them up on waivers WHILE EVERY OTHER TEAM PASSES, trade a s*** level player for them and you get mad and call it a win. Just plain f***ing stupid. If you want to win, claim players off waivers and offer s*** in return. if they dont take it, then they cannot trade the player, it is as simple as that. Wrong

FWIW, here are the Yankees' deadline deals 2005-2007: July 21, 2007 The New York Yankees traded Jeff Kennard (minors) to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim for Jose Molina. This was right around the time that Jeff Mathis and Napoli started to take the reigns and Molina was without a job. The Angels were ready to DFA him, and decided to take something rather than nothing for him. This was a non-move for anaheim and Cashman used it to his advantage. July 31, 2007 The New York Yankees traded Scott Proctor to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Wilson Betemit. He traded Proctor because Torre would use him and only him in tight spots. Cashman wanted to use the kids in the pen while Torre wouldnt. So, Cashman took away Torre's binky and sold high on Proctor. Turns out, Proctor sucked and Betemit once again doesnt get the ABs he needs to become a solid regular. This trade is a wash. July 26, 2006 The Philadelphia Phillies traded Sal Fasano to the New York Yankees for Hector Made (minors). You are honestly calling this a win for someone? Sal Fasano, the guy whose moustache had more pop than his bat? Please. Everyone has a shot at players like this for nothing. This is what we got. July 30, 2006 The Philadelphia Phillies traded Bobby Abreu and Cory Lidle to the New York Yankees for Matt Smith, C.J. Henry (minors), Carlos Monastrios (minors), and Jesus Sanchez (minors). This was a straight salary dump AND Abreu was in the midst of his worst career season. The Yankees took the chance that he'd be worth 23 million over a yr and 2 months. That he was. The Sox had the same chance but werent willing to eat the entire salary. They could have had him and you wouldnt be able to bitch anymore. July 31, 2006 The Pittsburgh Pirates traded Craig Wilson to the New York Yankees for Shawn Chacon. Wilson was without a job and Chacon was on the yankees' wits end. Turns out, Chacon was more useful than Wilson. July 2, 2005 The New York Yankees traded Paul Quantrill to the San Diego Padres for Darrell May, Tim Redding, and cash. WHAT A WIN!!! May lasted a couple games and Redding lasted one. The sox torched him, he was DFAd and the rest is history July 28, 2005 The Colorado Rockies traded Shawn Chacon to the New York Yankees for Ramon Ramirez and Eduardo Sierra (minors). Chacon was one yr removed from a 7+ ERA season and was dealt to the yankees when his WHIP was nearly 1.6. Ramirez turned out to be a solid MR and Sierra reverted to norm. This was a short term win, but I'd love to have a near lights out MR right now. August 27, 2005 The Chicago Cubs traded Matt Lawton to the New York Yankees for Justin Berg (minors). You really calling this one a giveaway? Lawton was acquired a month earlier by the Cubs where he hit like s***. The Yankees got him for free from a team that wasnt going to contend (since he was at the end of his contract and he proved useless). And again, he proved he was useless. Take a look at EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE MOVES. What do they all have in common? They were about to be dumped, they were coming off poor yrs, they all had monetary concerns, etc. There are no ARod's for Sean Henn deals in here. All of these players have the caveat of needing to go and the yankees took advantage of it. Throw money at the situation and the return in terms of talent drops. Works every time. The Nady and Marte deals are still TBD. In 2 yrs, if Nady and Marte are somewhere else and Tabata is showing his stuff in PNC, then you guys will be ripping us for making a bad deal.

I cannot believe that 2 smart people are being ridiculously stupid in this thread. Take a look at the deadline deals he has made and think for once. Jesus. Analysis to come

Lupica deserves a kick in the teeth for even bringing that up. Say NO TO MANNY

The projections that you show for minor league players are massively flawed. Take a look at the projections for guys like Dallas McPherson for example. In 2004, he batted .320 and hit 40 bombs in 130 games. He comes up to the angels, shows some power but gets abused in terms of BA and the gets hurt and is out of the org. I understand that single examples do not an argument make, but this is exactly why "can't miss" prospects miss. There are a ton of players who dominate minor league pitching or a ton of pitchers who dominate minor league hitting. The leap from AAA to the bigs is the biggest of all and a fair amount dont make it. Therefore, the projections that you show benefit from a very very high N, without taking into account the individual misses. None of them are sure bets. But if you factor in the guys who exceed the prediction, you are able to make those who disappoint a bit less obvious. My whole point is, a statistical analysis of minor leaguers is all well and good. But you need to evaluate skills, batting stance, hands, quickness, path to the ball, loft, top hand, solid contact, eye and power. You cannot do this all with stats. (if you wanna see a significant change in projection, see Austin Jackson prior to his breakout midway through last yr). Many, many scouts love Tabata's swing. It is a short, compact swing which generates a ton of hard contact. IE, he is a 19 yr old handling pitching that is much older than he is and making consistent solid contact. At 19, you hardly see top notch power, and those knocking his power need to understand that. Also, at 19, he'd typically be in the GCL where I guarantee he'd hit double digit homers. Regardless, like I said, projection for MiLB players is a crapshoot. If the scouts love the swing, then the numbers go out the window.

Everyone will have an initial defiant reaction. It is only natural. Hell, when Tino came here, he was booed incessantly after he struggled out of the gate. The rope is short when you replace future HOFers or beloved captains. Whomever replaces Jeter will get the same response. Bay has the goods. If given a good sample size, he'll produce. Nothing like what Manny used to, but he'll produce. The question is, will he regress to what he was last yr or will he thrive on the pressure and enjoy being a cog in a strong offensive machine. Time will tell

Do you have stats to back that assumption up? Just kidding. Bay is a bit like a right handed JD Drew. High BB totals, high K totals, thrived in relative obscurity. I'd expect there to be a bit of culture shock. He's going from a city that didnt even care he existed, to a city where what he ate for breakfast will be headline news.

Pettitte had nothing last night. He couldnt locate the fastball, the curve was flat and the cutter spun. You have those days. Just sometimes you can gut it out against inferior opponents. Against the angels, you wont. Ponsoon on the bump tonight. I have a funny feeling he is actually not awful tonight. But we never seem to his Ervin. This series, even though it is at home, might be a f***in sweep

Molina has the better arm right now. But think about it. Molina is a big man, entering the twilight of his catching career. (obese, 33 yr old catchers are right near the end of the line). Pudge is an in shape future HOFer in the twilight of his career. I'd expect a 60%/40% split the rest of the month and the player who plays best will then start seeing more PT down the stretch, and god willing, into the playoffs

A lot of bitching and moaning about the yankee deal. Seriously, the idea of a conspiracy is hilarious from all perspectives. The idea that Matsuzaka was part of a conspiracy is stupid as well. The sox set a price for DiceK, knowing that they could lowball him in the salary figure once they won his exclusive rights. I think they set the bar at 6 yrs 100 mil, which is right around what a guy like Zambrano ended up signing for. In terms of the yankee deal, give it a rest already. Has anyone addressed the possibility that the yankees and the pirates valued Tabata higher than you guys or other GMs are? Hell, last season, the yankees wouldnt have considered including him in a deal like this. Now, they include him with 3 other players. Could the pirates have gotten more from someone else? Maybe. Maybe not. Could the pirates scouts be in the GMs ear saying that Ohlendorf would thrive in the relative obscurity and that Tabata's potential can be reached in a system that will allow him the chance to make the bigs? Maybe. Too many variables. Thing is, they acquired 3 MLB ready talents that will fill needs for them. 2 could slot into the rotation right now, one could slot into the bullpen (and potentially close) and the other is out for the yr. Give it a rest. The bitching and whining is getting hilarious. And to take it to another level, one of the reasons why the pirates needed to make this deal is, as always, money. Marte's salary doubles to 6 mil next yr in an option yr and Nady is up for arb. You figure, Nady could potentially make 9 or 10 mil next yr. Bay, OTOH, is the better player and is signed cheaper. They didnt need to deal him this yr. That is why the haul was significantly more for a player who was only a small amount better. Also, the sox desperation played into this big time.

for now at least

No he wasnt. He was drafted by the Expos. They dealt him to the Mets, who dealt him to SD. SD than traded him with Oliver Perez to the Pirates for Brian Giles

the sox may use that salary as leverage to sign a long term deal. On the open market, Bay would be 15-16 mil a yr.

This deal is interesting. The sox dealt Manny, Hansen, Moss, and 7 mil for a player they hope can perform close to what Manny was doing

So George Kontos was happy he wasnt dealt to Pitt Today 8IP 1H 0ER 1BB 13K

The one thing I wont miss is the .450 batting average Manny has vs us over the last 4 yrs. The guy just murders yankee pitching. Enjoy the left coast!

Here is what is going to happen. Hansen will go to Pittsburgh and be absolutely filthy. He and Ross Ohlendorf along with Matt Capps will make the Buccos pen absolutely filthy. The Yankees and the Sox will lament giving them talented players, even though everyone knows full well they werent making it in the ALE. Brandon Moss will go to PIT and be entrenched as their starting LFer. In their bandbox stadium and in the NLC he will see some success, likely OPSing around .800 and will be another David Murphy type player. Solid, not spectacular, who knows what he's doing in the box, but isnt a key cog in the machine. Manny will go to LA and be absolutely lights out this stretch run. He'll get the Dodgers into the playoffs and be hailed as LA's savior. Coming off that performance, he'll get a huge deal in the offseason and go back to being the lovable loafer you guys cheered on for 8 seasons. Bay will come to the sox and initially struggle and with Manny being on a tear in LA and the prospects looking nice, sox fans will be angry. But come September, he'll start to find his groove and find his way around AL pitchers. By midseason 2009, he'll start to hit like the Jason Bay of old and will likely finish the 09 campaign with a near .900OPS. During the season, the sox will sign him to a 5 yr extension for around 16 mil a yr to be the sox starting LFer for awhile.