seabeachfred

Nice try Red Sox fan but the operative theme of your post was Talk, talking, and talked. Well talk is cheap. We haven't done a damn thing there and the only two moves Benny Barf made were moves he shouldn't have. We are worse off now than we were at the end of the season and now that many of us are aware of this guy's ineptness don't be surprised if we see him sign Wakefield and Varitek anyway, which would make us a lot worse than last year. Nice try though.

Glad all you folks are happy and I hope you get the best share of tickets. Out here in Southern California they are celebrating Christmas early, especially my lovely wife Linda, my daughter Christine and my son-in-law Scott----his brothers and their wives, children and their parents. Something like 24-1 and I'm the 1. The only Red Sox fan in the whole caboodle. Think I'm celebrating too? This is for sh!t if you root for the Sox. The Angels have cleaned up and we're high and dry. Thanks for listening to my semi-rant. It's a crappy feeling right about now.

That lady rails and moans when anything negative is said about the Red Sox, and I think she is talking about me when she says she is thinking of putting one of us on ignore. I wish she would just do that and be done with it. I've dealt with these pollyanna types before. Yes 700, it is good to be optimistic if there is some sense of reality to it but right now for anyone to take that line of thought just makes me roll my eyes. Y et, if they want to do it, then fine by me. Just allow me to say that I take a different position and respect my right to say sit without making some snide remarks. Better yet, I wish she would just put me on ignore so I wouldn't have to deal with her anymore.

Are you and others now convinced that Cherington is a dud, a bozo and an incompetent boob? The guy can't can't walk and burp at the same time. This was a bad pick for us as GM because the guy doesn't even know which way to turn. The better part of three days gone in the Winter Meetings and all we have is Andrew Miller to show for it? That should speak volumes about this guy's idiocy. BTW, Miller's contract was a ML one; he is out of options so he is on the team or the Sox pay him to get rid of him. You know, ever since Prune Face Henry married that pastry tart his mind has been elsewhere. This is becoming more of a Three Stooges farce than a front office in action.:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

First of all, the front office was absolutely stupid beyond words to offer Ortiz arbitration. They didn't do their so-called due diligence. If they had they would have learned real quickly that there was no market for a DH who couldn't play defense. Secondly, most teams are not going to risk losing two draft choices to sign such a player. Thirdly, this has set the Red Sox back maybe two or three years. Lavarnway is now blocked so the FO can now make the excuse he needs more seasoning, which he doesn't, and gives the bumbling Cheringpuke an excuse to bring back the stumbling and bumbling Varitek for another year. We now are out of the money for pitching, a closer, a RH hitting RF and bullpen help. The way the Red Sox are stubbornly loyal to their long time players nowadays borders on both the idiotic and the criminal. It also looks to me like the new GM can't walk and chew gum at the same time. He has quickly morphed into a real dud.

Ortease is coming back to the Red Sox whether we want him back or not (I don't). We have tons of problems with our pitching that needs to be settled and signing this guy for $18 million is going to impede the chances of doing so. Cherington has about lost me even this early because the guy doesn't seem to be able to cut wind and chew gum at the same time. We could have a real dud in the general manager's chair my friends. All we've gotten so far this winter is Andre Miller. ANDREW MILLER?????? How efen dumb can this Cherington be?

Well 700, we won't be losing any substantial segment of our fan base since Red Sox fans are made of a sterner stuff than Mets fans are, but we're capable of getting pretty pissed off and making our feelings known and we have the Boston Press to help us in that cause. I do believe, though, that a few more personnel mistakes by the Red Sox front office can see our cause start to deteriorate as well. I think this winter is critical is holding on and making the right decisions. The team has to start thinking with their heads and not their hearts or their asses and I'm beginning to think that Cherington might just be in over his head. Once again, yes, it is early, but is starting to slip away. Two closers are already gone and ours is too, we are talking about signing Ortiz when we need pitching and some RH pop and it seems there is some agreement that Cherington moves in three ways---slow, slower and slowest. Now there's talk from some people that not much is expected from the Red Sox at these Winter Meetings. If not now, then when?

I'd like to know that myself. We don't need Ortiz as much as we need pitching and soe RH hitting outfielder. Could be the Red Sox are frightened he might end up in the Bronx, something that always seems to shake the hell out of Lucchino and Co. every time one of our key players hits free agency. I think Ryan Lavarnway would do well offensively at DH and as second catcher and could hit between 25-30 homers and he gives us a RH bat which we need very badly after Epstein stupidly lefthanded us to death. I'm beginning to have deep misgivings about Cherington's acument as a GM. All of us on this board can see with a clear eye what we need so why does he insist he has to resign Ortiz? We need pitching a lot more. As for the Orioles not wanting Varitek, I just hope that doesn't give Lucchino a wild oat up his ass to resign the guy again. He and Wakefield need to go, finally and utterly.

Well they did work together well in New York, but who'se kidding who? You know damn well that there is quite a bit of bias on my part in wanting Apodaca. Still, I think he would do well in Boston.

Well if I could grade your picks I would give you an "A".....very good. Willingham would be ideal as well as he is a RH power hitter like Cuddyer, though I don't know if he mashes lefties like Cud does. Oswalt would be a good pick, though Garza does have experience in the AL East while Roy has been a NL pitcher which is why I went with him. We're sympatico with Ayala and Madson, and you hit a homer with Thornton in my opinion. Why the hell didn't I think if him in the first place? Nothing today User. Hope to hear something going down the next two days.

With all due respect VA, I am entitled to my opinion and I will give it whether it offends you or not. You have the option of not reading my posts or putting me on ignore but as long as we have freedom of expression here I will continue to say what's on my mind. I know you were a great admirer of FrancoNa and more power to you for holding your ground on that. I was NOT an admirer of FrancoNa and thought he was very deficient in the dugout---and IN MY OPINION cost us numerous games every year. According to my pal Muggah who posts here on occasion he had him down for nine by the past August when he just quit counting. I wish Terry well in his new endeavor but believe deep in my bones we will be much better off with Bobby Valentine who is a very strong dugout manager. As for what Madden said, what else could he say. You don't run down a contemporary no matter what you might feel to the contrary...if that might be the case. All I know is that in the last four season Joe ran circles around your boy when it came to strategy. They ran, pitched and bunted our team silly while we were confined to hitting into double plays and killing rallies with our ridiculous station-to-station philosophy that netted us nothing. I have moved on VA; glad your man is gone and looking forward to seeing a rejuvinated and exciting and unpredictable team take the field next season.

Since you are apparently a big fan of Buckner you will be pleased to know, if you don't already do, that when Bill was introduced to the crowd on Opening Day, 2008 at the end of the WS flaf raising ceremony, the crowd went absolutely nuts with cheers and applause. He took a rotten rap back in the 80's but I think most Red Sox fans would welcome him to the coaching ranks with open arms. He was popular out here in LA, was loved in Chicago and had the fans in his corner in Boston until that one unfortunate error. Of course, maybe the team should take the real rap. The Mets were down to their last strike in a 5-3 game and neither Schiraldi or Stanley could get that last strike.......and didn't the Red Sox blow a three run lead in the seventh game two nights later for the Series loss? Plenty of blame to go around for that miserable experience.

Come on User, ease up on Bob Apodaca. Bobby played on my teams in Downey, California from 1963 through 1966, including All Star Teams. This guy is a real smart cookie with a lot of moxie, a fast learner and a real over achiever. Not drafted after college, he signed a free agent contract with the Mets, was a winning pitcher in A, AA and AAA ball in successive years and made it to the big club in time for the 1973 pennant. He knows pitching and has done a pretty damn good job in Colorado, normally a graveyard for the guys on the mound. I had to defend one of my old boys.

Those are helluva good points User. Man did I go off the handle on another board moaning about our inept medical staff and their constant misdiagnoses on our key players the past few years. Amazing such professionals could be so wrong so much of the time. The final straw was when they refused to give Buchholz and MRI when he complained of back trouble thinking it only a strain. Yea right!!!!! Good riddance to them. Now if we can continue the house cleaning and send Varitek and Wakefield on their way it would tell me we're trying to get it right. No news from Dallas yet and I still haven't a clue if we are going to go the FA or trade route to get up to speed. OK, I'll let the cat out of the bag. The pitcher I want is Garza, the RH hitting outfielder is Michael Cuddyer, the closer is Ryan Matson, the three relievers I'm not sure of but I would take a flier on Balfour and Ayala and a solid lefty who might be out there. You said similar things on this as I have. What are your choices if you have them?

Well Elk, I think I will go out on limb here as I do elsewhere and just come out and say it. Next year we will not lose between 10-12 games in the dugout because FrancoMa is no longer here and we finally have a manager that is a solid game and dugout skipper. We do have to get a RH hitting outfielder, one starting pitcher, a closer and three relievers. That's six players and it is going to take some real creativity as well as some money allocated to bring this about. Still, I feel better knowing that Tito is no longer around, but, then again, maybe I shouldn't say that either. I hear he is still hanging around Boston and making appearances on radio sports talk shows. Just wonder when he is finally going to get the hell out of town for good.

Sometimes I have to roll my eyes at the naivety of some of my Red Sox colleagues who listen to what the Yankees say and swallow it whole..NEVER BELIEVE A FU@@ING THING THE YANKEES SAY. They don't usually mean a word of it. Not just Teixeira but jog your memories to the fall of 2005. They weren't interested in Johnny Damon either, right? A great Christmas present we got when he signed with the pinstripers while we wound up with good field, miseable hitting Coco Crisp who stunk up Boston at the plate for three years. Until Wilson signs elsewhere the Yankees ARE VERY interested in him.

If I can throw Bard a lifeline right now, it could be said fairly that I think we may have overworked him this past season and he might have been gassed out by September. Now what about his early troubles in April, well I have no answer to that. As for that bit about facing Teixeira, I have a recent memory of that last April when the Red Sox and Yankees met in our home opening series. In the ninth inning with us ahead 7-5, Tex came up with two outs and no one on and Paps nailed him on three pitches. Sure, nobody was on and we were up by two but we were also 0-6 at the time so who knew what might take place. He also got him two nights later in the ninth in a 4-0 win. Say what you will about Papelbon but he really did a helluva job for us this year and I can well understand 700 Hitter's misgivings about losing a closer like that. As for who will replace him, I haven't a clue.

Free agents signings can be a real crapshoot when big money is involved. I think Red Sox fans are a little gun shy is because our last two, Lackey and Crawford, seem to be sunk costs at the present time. I would venture to say that if Carl came back next year and had a strong season the negative feeling we have towards big FA would dissipate. From where I sit, however, it is either spend money on FA or trade prospects for ready veterans. I don't think anyone wants to go in just with what we have now, minus Papelbon, so Cherington or Lucchino or Henry or somebody has to decide if it's one or the other, or a combination of both. I see no other recourse if we want to challenge for something other than watching other teams play in October again.

User--I could use the old bromide of do I believe what his former manager and the FO says or do I believe what my own eyes have seen. Actually my take on Bard was simply my own opinion from those nine games that were entrusted to him with either a tie or us in the lead which he proceeded to blow. Now one thing I heard from Orsillo and Remy was that he seemed to lose some steam off his fastball whenever he started walking people, and when he did that usually a big hit or two and bad news for us came about. He was, after all, 2-9 as a set-up man. That kind of performance as a closer would be a death sentence for the team. I do believe that there is more pressure being a closer than an 8th inning man and if he had trouble doing the latter job it gives me pause to think he might fall far short in the 9th inning role as well. Again, though, just my opinion. Besides User, it's out of our hands and all we can do is speculate anyway. You said yourself that you don't necessarily disagree with what I said and added that there are a number of directions we could go. We'll see what BV and Co. decide on that score, but to tell you the truth I don't like the idea of Bard facing down Teixeira in the ninth inning with the Red Sox leading 6-5 with two outs and two men on base---neither at Fenway or at YS.

Commenter---yes, you made some good points and also make a lot of sense, but if we do it your way you better be prepared to write off next season and maybe the one after that because we don't have the prospects ready to move in except for Lavarnway and maybe Middlebrooks. We have to do some upgrading this winter if we want to compete for a division title next season. A good starting pitcher is a must, a closer as well, not to mention building a bullpen and that will take three decent pitchers to get that done. We don't want to be too left handed in our lineup, which is ridiculous playing half our games as Fenway, so we need a RH outfielder. How do you propose we get them unless we sign free agents or make trades? See the dilemma? If we had the prospects we could maybe a move that way but under Epstein our farm system has taken a hit the past three or four years. His misjudging of talent has saddled with duds like Weiland, Lars Anderson, Michael Bowden and most likely Felix Doubrant. See the problem?

Well iortiz, it is obvious you see the problem and aren't being swayed by some of the mumbo-jumbo eminating from the front office. You might decide it would be better for you to hold fast in Monterrey down Mexico way rather than spend your hard earned money watching a miserable team in action, and you can be that I will holding fast in Southern California if I believe the FO hasn't done all it can to put a winning team on the field. You know as well as I do that it costs a lot of money to make a trip to Boston, or even to Texas or Anaheim for that matter. You would like to know that when you make such a trip you're going to believe that your team has a good chance to win so the trip was worthwhile. Frankly, I don't know if the front office is going to spend the money to upgrade the team, or whether they will make the smart trades that can put us into the post-season next year. I suppose we'll get a hint of things to come in the next week during the winter meetings. Commenter made some good points as well, saying that spending money doesn't always work. Lackey is proof of that, and maybe Crawford too, but as I will remind Commenter, Epstein did a pretty mediocre job of drafting the past five years despite what has been written. Notice Westmoreland, Fuentes, Reddick, Ellsbury, Kalish??? All left hand hitting outfielders. Where the hell were the quality pitchers drafted? This has to change so we are not caught short with a lack of pitchers as we were this season. I mean Kyle Weiland was the best we could do? It got so bad that we had to keep sending out the worthless and over=the=hill Wakefield. Again, we have to do a better job in that area, but for next season we may have to give up some young talent for quality established players, or just take our chances and go with some young players like Lavarnway. Paying Ortiz $14 million isn't going to get the job done.