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If he is executing a plan that the FO agrees on I think it will be hard for them to let him go. As for our agreement, yes they need to add a piece or two for the time being but there are some serious traps in the market right now. Sanchez on the sexy-expensive end and Lihse on the polished-s*** end. Honestly, for the right price I wouldn't hate the names you mentioned.

I never said this. I said it was rumored that the Sox had inquired on Upton. My point was that if they had pieces that interested Arizona in Upton presumably they could interest them for Bauer instead. Who knows. Bauer appears to be the best pitching prospect currently "available" in trade talks, so why not be aggressive on it? This isn't how Billy Beane has worked historically. He has dealt players at all levels, from guys who are not yet in the majors to guys who are at arb. I can largely agree with this. I think your assessment of the Sox producing home grown talent is a little harsh, since they did produce Lester and Buchholz and Masterson (whose best years are likely ahead of him). I'm not saying they are a pitching factory producing pitcher after pitcher, but I don't think they are completely inept at it. You are right that they might need to go for mid-tier talent instead of saving all their eggs for a big piece to become available. However, the best way to get elite talent is to draft it. That requires patience. It requires patience in the sense of time as well as in the sense of making decisions about player acquisition with regard to draft implications. This is something they have always done and which I don't sense you've been a big fan of. They got two draft picks for letting Papelbon go last year. With those two picks they took two pitchers (Brian Johnson and Pat Light). This year they will have the #7 overall pick. Signing Napoli and Victorino by "overpaying" could be at least partially justified by the fact that they didn't have to give up 2nd round picks for either. Finally, you keep saying that nobody is projecting De La Rosa or Webster to be #1s. I'd say that is true. Pitchers virtually never get projected as #1s. Those guys are often kids with tremendous stuff and a high amount of polish, who have also put together a track record of success. I don't see anything about Webster's stuff, minor league numbers, or make up that suggest he couldn't develop into a pitcher at the quality of Brandon Webb or, on the low end, Derek Lowe. Scouts rave about his stuff, it's just a matter of putting it together. De La Rosa has been widely acclaimed to have some of the most electric stuff in all of baseball. That's not hyperbole, it's what numerous scouts have said. The guy was touching 100 as a SP prior to his surgery. Plenty of guys who are rotational mainstays didn't get the hype of a Felix or Strasburg. CC Sabathia had plenty of question-marks about him, so did Cliff Lee. Halladay had to work his stuff out in his early career to get where he did. Gio Gonzalez was known to be a good talent, but he was traded twice prior to landing in Washington. Overall, it is easy to see the current "aces" as always having been sure things. I would say that aside from a few of them, most of them started out exactly where Barnes, De La Rosa and Webster are--highly projectable young pitchers who need to improve their command. Some do it, some don't, but very few are elite pitchers throughout their career. They all required patience. Your point probably stands that while being patient the Sox will have to get some rotation filler to remain competitive. I would just say that I see no reason to pay 18m a year for a guy like Sanchez if Edwin Jackson is available for much less. In my opinion, the best the Sox can do is get as many young, high upside pitchers as they can and hope some of them work out to be high quality MLB starters. In the meantime, sure, go ahead and fill the rotation out with mid-tier guys. Just don't spend on them as if they are aces.

"Dodgers source tells me they expect their negotiations with Ryu Hyun-Jin to go right down to the wire today with his agent Scott Boras." Jim Bowden's tweet from today. They might just go ahead and sign Sanche too. Holy s***. The new most dispicable team in baseball, I suppose. They laugh at the luxary tax in a way that even the Yankees don't right now. Of course, the Yankees don't partially (I believe) because they have learned the hard way that spending as much as you want doesn't necessarily lead to a World Series or even a healthy competitive team in a few years. The Dodgers are absolute beasts right now. It's pretty unbelievable how much talent they have on their roster. Go Giants!

I don't think TB would have much interest in helping the Sox get Upton and Bauer. Creative trade though. I would have no problem with the Sox being really aggressive on Upton and Bauer.

I don't think I ever said that I had the solution. What I did say was that no matter what the solution is it will require patience. Teams end with very good SP options through less than glamorous trades pretty frequently. The sox won't get Felix or Verlander thru a trade anytime soon, but they could still get a very good pitcher with pieces they have currently. Many experts disagree with your pedestrian analysis of Webster or De La Rosa. If they mastered command--something that occasionally happens with guys their age--they could become exactly what the sox need. In addition to finding guys exactly like Webster and De La Rose thru trade, the sox may have the chance to use their prime draft spot to bolster their rotations chances of struking big. As I said, right now I would love for the sox to target a guy like Trevor Bauer. You may feel they don't have enough but just a few months ago there were rumors that the sox and DBacks could fit on an Upton deal. Barring a deal with Arizona I would see what Billy Beane wanted for Anderson or Parker. As with all Oakland players it is just a matter of time until they are dealt. Maybe by 2014 it would be possible. They aren't aces but they certainly could help even good teams improve.

You said they don't have any trade value. Webster and De La Rosa are more highly rated as prospects than most of the MLB ready players I listed ever were. Just saying. You still haven't cited anything that gives any indication that your evaluation is anything more than just pessimistic speculation. Not one reputable person who says Webster or De La Rosa aren't worth anything. Neither of us know what the market holds or where teams are willing to move their best pitchers. That doesn't mean it can't or won't happen. It isn't my job to know when or where that will happen. I'm not sure I see what your alternative is either. Apparently there's some #1 out there that they should be going after OTHER than trying to acquire a young pitcher who will be there eventually. Is there an ace who might be available that we haven't been talking about?

I don't think there's really any way to validate/invalidate this discussion. You think poorly of the Sox current prospects. I think highly of many of them. It's not something easily resolved in a format like this. I'm confident that I'm at least on the right track, having heard Alex Speier make virtually the same point on the radio the other day and seeing that you have no faith that either Webster or De La Rosa have any trade value when, according to just about every expert out there they do. Find one who says neither is likely to amount to anything and I will change my tune.

Hernandez was a generational talent. People knew he was all star caliber at 20 years old. He's an unrealistic aspiration. No team will let him go. Overall I think you are underestimating what the Sox can potentially give up to supplement a team ready to make a good run. A package of Kalish, Barnes, Lavarnway, Doubront, and Brentz deal would get plenty of attention and wouldn't kill the club. Or they could use other guys like Owens or Cecchinni if they wanted. They have lots of pieces. You may not think so, but they do. What is lacking are a plethora of teams wanting to trade their top pitching prospects. Arizona could be a good candidate, especially now that the Rangers are more likely to pursue Hamilton/Shields rather than Upton in a deal sending Bauer to Cleveland.

Felix isn't the next big pitcher--he might have been 4 years ago. He's a current big pitcher. The next big pitcher is someone you probably don't know about yet. Maybe a Bauer or Cole, Dylan Bundy, one of the other kids in Seattle or Jameson Taillon. Who knows. I think the goal should be to get one of these guys from a team looking to win "now" and supplement their other good pitching prospects with a guy with higher upside. They need to look 2-5 years down the road, not just to April.

Again, I think you are flat wrong here but we can disagree. Webster was a top 100 prospect prior to last year and pitched well in AA as a 22 year old. His stuff is very good, mid-90s with a power sinker. Virtually every scouting report I've read says either mid rotation starter or dominant late-innings reliever. Virtually every scouting report I've read says De La Rosa's ceiling is higher. I realize none of them are sure things, but it's not like they are worthless like you imply.

He was conceived on January 12th, 2007. Seriously, though, many people like the potential of the young pitchers the Sox have. Barnes, Webster, De La Rosa and Owens get more credit from others than from you. That's understandable. I would be skeptical too. I think they could package one or two of those guys for a true stud arm in the next year or so or see how they develop. They are stockpiling pieces that could be used for bigger deals in the future.

As you'll see from my other post, I wouldn't be devastated if they went into 2014 with some portion of their current "surplus" for next year as well. 3-4 year deals are great, but they are still spending down the flexibility they earned when they traded away the bad contracts. They have to be able to jump at opportunities for elite pitchers, not mid-rotation guys who pretend to be elite (Sanchez).

Lohse on anything other than a very team friendly one-year deal would be disastrous, IMO. Perhaps scouts have watched him and can see something good that has "clicked" for him the past two seasons, but even then he shouldn't be paid like a guy who has been putting up those kinds of numbers for his entire career. Jackson would be a decent choice. is combination of being healthy and having periods of success would have me comfortable putting him at the bottom of the rotation. I guess my bigger point is that people who are thinking the Sox should be finding that pitcher who is going to get them into contention/favored status right now really need to find some patience. I simply don't think that guy is out there. And when that guy DOES become available, I would hate for an extra, unnecessary 5m per year to be going to a guy like Sanchez or Lohse or Jackson. Overall the Sox should be extremely aggressive on guys like Cole and Bauer. Any of the young pitchers who were top 5 draft picks are excellent options to build around. It might take more patience from fans but the upside is significantly higher with tose pitchers and the results are potentially much better. The key phrase is patience. I know everyone feels like they have been patient since 2010 or whatever, but the rebuilding process for this team didn't start until the AdGon trade. it has been about 3 months. For most teams it takes years. The Sox did their best to extend their run of success, it failed, and now they're back at the drawing board. It is foolish if we expect that the answers are all there in the first season.

If potatoes cost twice what they are worth and steak can be had at a reasonable deal, I might go with the steak and look for another side... Okay, that's not entirely true. Potatoes are essential with steak. In any case, I'm torn on this one. If Sanchez can be had for, say, a 4 year 68m deal (that's 4 x 17m) then it would fit into the Sox current plan of overpaying for shorter market deals. The Sox justified overpaying for Victorino and Napoli because the other options were considerably worse and they wanted to get it done. In order to do that with Sanchez it might literally take 4 years, $20m per, if he's really seeking, say, 6 years 100m. That seems like way too much to pay for a guy like him, just to secure the best option.

I can think of very few expensive FA SPs who ended up being a good deal. Do we think that Anibel Sanchez is going to break that trend? Sabathia and Cliff Lee, maybe, but Anibel Sanchez? No thanks. Use the money elsewhere.

While I understand your frustration I just don't see how Buehrle would make this team considerably better right now. Lets say they signed him last year, would we be happy with the rotation now? How about in 2-3 years? My point isn't that your frustration is misguided. It's that each of these non-moves had context and reasoning. I think missing out on Kuroda sucked last year. However, they had no money thanks to a bunch of other s***** contracts (which many people here applauded at the time they were signed). Gio Gonzalez, if I remember correctly, would have required Will Middlebrooks. That might be a trade worth makin but it is a significant value and I'm not upset the sox have Middlebrooks at this point. Yes they need to get one or two great SPs, no doubt. I suspect they will, but it may not be this offseason where we say "that's the one!". Also, Lohse? No thanks. One year, maybe...

I'm pretty sure that the overall number of runs scored is not randomly associated with the reduction of some of the more hardcore PEDs out there. Stimulants, obvious steroids, etc., created superhuman athletes. I agree that there are probably PEDs still in the game, but they are different kinds and the results are different.

Highly unlikely, at least the Kershaw or Price part. No way the Rays do a trade that results in the Sox getting Price. Gerrit Cole or Trevor Bauer would be really exciting options, but would take a lot to acquire. Would the Sox be willing to move Middlebrooks + or Bogaerts + for one of them? As valuable as young pitching is, aren't hitters who can hit 30+ HR consistently actually rarer in this post PEDs environment than a pitcher who can post a 3-something ERA? Not saying both of them are definitely 30+ guys, but they could be. Middlebrooks would have hit 32 in a 162g spread last year. It really may just be an issue of waiting for Barnes, Webster and or De La Rosa to come up.

Ouch! I don't like that deal much. Move one piece of the rotation for another. Bailey only has one year left after this one, right? His 2nd arb eligible going into 2013 I think. Is he worth a year of Ellsbury and Doubront, who isn't even at arb yet? I think calls to move Doubront are really premature. Doubront just finished his age 24 season and has the following career line: 196 IP, 4.86 ERA, 196 K, 1.477 WHIP, 90 ERA+, 2.20 K/BB Here's Bailey's line through roughly the same number of innings (after his age 23 season) 195 IP, 5.45 ERA, 132 K, 1.610 WHIP, 80 ERA+, 1.36 K/BB Doubront is a better version of Bailey at the same point in their MLB careers. Meanwhile, Bailey has had one good (not great) season. And he's not controlled for long. Maybe Ells plus a decent prospect IF there's reason to think they can extend Bailey for a reasonable price. Otherwise, they should aim higher.

Yeah, all of your concerns are valid in my opinion. I think ultimately it comes down to how comfortable he is in his sobriety. Anyone who is truly committed to staying sober goes to great lengths to attend groups, have counseling, or do whatever else it is that works for them. If he's committed at that level then he will be fine anywhere. If he's dropped off of that and has become somewhat complacent, then his environment will make a great difference and Boston would not be recommended (vs. say, Seattle or Milwaukee or somewhere less pressure filled/scrutinizing).

That's how ladies feel in my presence. I've heard the whispers.

I think the pump is primed for a move like this as well. The interesting thing is that is sounds like Seattle is the leader in the clubhouse at three years and maybe 25m per. If Texas were to sign Greinke (fingers crossed) they would likely be out of the running. The biggest concern for the Sox with Hamilton is the length of contract he's asking for. If the Sox biggest competition for him is already at 3 years then they can jump in with a bigger AAV and make it happen. At 3 years that would be a tolerable acquisition; 4 years, maybe; anything longer, no thanks.

Their bullpen is actually looking pretty damn nice right now, in my opinion. They have some good arms and a decent R/L mix.

Just keep in mind that the Sox are likely to take the same approach they took with Napoli and Victorino with the best pitchers available on the market toward the end of the off season. They will overpay for shorter years to get through the next year or two. We might even like the pitcher(s) they get, but they will need to keep some money around to make that possible. If they sign Hamilton to some ungodly contract their ability to sign those guys will be reduced. I would be okay with Hamilton, but their money isn't endless.

Just as it was crazy to think that Cherington was planning on just sitting this offseason out a few weeks ago, it is crazy to think the team is done at this point. If anything they are in on just about every rumor out there and I think we should assume that they are being aggressive to make the team better. I don't know if Ben is a genius or a dunce, but I really wish this site could at least wait to see what the end product is prior to judgment. SBF--my above points are not directed at you. Your post is very reasonable and served merely as a good jumping off point.