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You're right about Lowell/Youkilis. My vote is in trading Lowell because although he has less value than Youk, he doesn't have as much long term value for the sox. How do you know Pedroia's PEAK is Loretta? That's a strong statement. Gonzo will be wanting like 3 million a year for 3-4 years. That's too much for a guy who doesn't hit. If he needs to stick to his guns then we gotta let him go. It's that simple.

Lugo is the SS I want on this team (all things considered and given that no others are really available).

Oh my god!! They inflated the values for starting pitchers!??!! Well at least they didn't inflate the value of SS, 3B, 1B, RF, CF or LF. I mean, as long as they're not paying anywhere near 20 million for any of those positions we're safe

I guess. They actually cost the Yankees their first round pick from last year. First round picks often become blue chippers. If the sox traded away Jacoby Ellsbury I would still say they traded "prospects" but to say they won't ever see the majors is a bit of a stretch, at least as predictions go. But its fair enough a700 as we all know that you always value someone who is in the majors over someone who is in the minors due to the uncertainty factors.

It's official, he's been posted. The team will not have until Wednesday to make a bid. I suppose we should know who wins the bidding by Thursday. Even if it isn't announced some word will leak out. I think the Sox must be making a serious run at him. They know how valuable it is to be able to use only money to get a qualty player. They have invested a lot of money in their farm system and I know they are happy with most of their draft picks the last few years. Keep as many of them as possible, add top tier pitching talent and keep Manny and Ortiz and you're probably looking at a really good team.

Yeah man, me too. I've come to really respect him the past few years and he's obviously been a tremendous personality in baseball over the past decade. Largely without injuries, tremendous power consistency from a SS, good speed, decent glove. He's not an MVP, Hank Aaron award, or gold glove player this year though.

AL: Kenny Rodgers Pudge Teixeira Grudzielaneik (2B ) Jeter (what a joke, you've got to be f***ing kidding me) Chavez Hunter Ichiro Vernon Wells http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061102&content_id=1729529&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb The only one I'm really against is Jeter, although I think Chavez is horribly overrated defensively too. Lowell was spectacular at 3B this year, as were some other players.

Mirabelli is not a great backup catcher. He is defensively average (at best) except for his ability to catch for Wakefield (which basically means "stopping the ball"). The sox ARE looking for a starting catcher, but not for this year. Hopefully Kottaras can be that guy.

Here's what I see happening: SS: Sox sign Lugo. Sox fans won't fall in love with him and won't be patient if he sucks, but his speed is exciting and he has a little pop and certainly isn't BAD in the field. CP: Sox try to work out a deal for Brad Lidge or Aaron Heilman. They hold on to Keith Foulke and have Hansen as the 3rd option. SP: They push very hard to land one of the big 3. I get the sense that they're serious about Matsuzaka, partcularly since, when it comes down to it, he's a risk that is only really feesable for a big money team. I believe the mariners rumors I have read about them not being all that interested. Like someone else mentioned here earlier, Schmdt would probably be a similar salary but you know what you're getting and you don't have to pay the outrageous posting fee. Personally, I'd be excited about next year if we got either of them. Schilling, Beckett, Schmidt/Matsuzaka, Papelbon, Wakefield would be a fine rotation. If Lester's around either use him as long relief or put him in Wakefeld's spot (probably the latter). OF: I am starting to doubt that the sox are going to move Manny. I'm actually pretty confused as to what direction they're going in with their zip-loc seal on the FO's goings-ons. If we keep Manny then get Ramirez (Aramis) and send Lowell plus most of his salary for a young OF option. If you move Manny (say for Heilman and Milledge) then Milledge or Crisp becomes your 4th OF, each of them having something to offer. Line Ellsbury up behind Milledge and you're looking at a nice core of young OFs in Crisp, Ellsbury, Milledge and Wily Mo. This would be particularly so if Milledge continues to develop power like some beleve he will. We're talking about a savy team here. They can make deals happen, but the more they try to be stingy the more they run the risk of having deals slip out of their grasp. I think if they go in 15% more aggressvely than the past few years they will pull off a number of good moves, expected or completely out of the blue. Pedroia; the word on Pedroia from what I've seen and heard and read is that he's a high OBP guy. He's very small and has a good eye. He also has decent gap power but nothing substantial (i.e., the ball will go to the gaps but not absolute rockets). He is a great fielder with only limited range, which is why many argue about the claim that he is capable of playing SS. From what I observed during his brief stint with the sox it looked a little overwhelming for him at SS, but he looked more than competant at 2B, partcularly with the DP ball and working with Gonzo/Cora (both excellent fielders). He's a scrappy leader type player, and he will probably become a fan favorte without much difficulty after a few good games. He had a tremendous career at Arizona State.

Like I say man, go for it. The sox have had 2 (TWO) shots with Suppan and he blew both times. Could you imagine why we're not jumping into the mosh pit on that one? He may be good but I'd rather the sox try another maybe just for fun, if nothing else. Ted Lilly, who tends to beat the sox with regularity, would be preferable to me.

How about you guys take Jeff Suppan and we take someone good.

yes indeed. Nice.

nobody argued with you that Sheffield wouldn't have a good deal waiting for him someplace. What do you want, a freaking medal? You predicted that Sheffield would get something for the Yankees. Big whoop! For those of you saying that if the Yankees only spent on pitching like they do hitting they would be unbeatable. Tell me, which pitchers over the past 3 years were worth A-Rod or Jeter money? Which ones were even worthy of being paid as the highest pitchers in baseball? Name some... Bartolo Colon? AJ Burnett? Pedro? Who? The Yankees HAVE spent a shitload on pitching, but it is dwarfed by their offensive spending because people tend to spend more on offense than pitching due to the lesser role a pitcher has and, more importantly, the possibility of injuries. Yankees Starters: RJ 15m, Mussina 19m, Pavano 8m, Wright 8m, Wang .3m. That's 50.3 m Red Sox Starters: Schilling 13m, Clement 10m, Becket 4.3, Wakefeld 4m, Lester .4 m (or so), that's about 30m. The Yanks are paying about 4 million more per-starting rotation pitcher than the second highest paying team in basball. Interesting. My point is that they already DO go after the best available pitcher but those pitchers don't always pan out. Kevin Brown, RJ, Pavano, Wright, they have all had ups and downs despte a lot of nice numbers when they came in.

Although I agree with you on most of these Youkilis related points, I think your assumptions about the people I'm arguing with are a little bold. a700hitter and scaffolds have both displayed a tremendous amount of red sox knowledge and passion and I very much respect their views (otherwise I wouldn't argue with them for hours on end... I feel I'm right but can't be sure cause they don't agree). I wouldn't call them unintelligent or blind to the truth. The red sox are in a very tough time right now where they have the potential to be torn in 5 directions without a coherent plan. Given that we don't have access to that plan (due to new FO policies around secrecy) its all about guessing and it is only logical to keep all options on the table. Between moving Lowell or Youkilis there is a pretty big divide because one can offer you a better return on the market while the other is a bigger drain on your large (yet finite) financial resources. It is also true that, in order to compete offensively with the Yankees (compete, not outslug) the sox need to have most of the positions that are tradtionally offensive-minded to be offensive minded, and the rest of the positions to be average to better than average. On a tremendous offensive team, youk would be one of the "weaker" hitters. We hope to have a tremendous offensive team, youk makes about what a "weaker" hitter should make, he's a role player, plays well in Boston's pressure, gets on base and has positional flexibility. to me it seems like a no-brainer to get the best available 1B or 3B and move Youk to the other position. It will be very difficult to trade Lowell, granted, but if possible I think its ideal. Anyway, go easy in your first 10 posts at least! Welcome to the board, good post.

He had a .400 OBP through the trade deadline (until 7/29 at least), .390 by August 31st. He was not playing out of his head, he was playing like the progression of the player we'd seen the past two seasons beforehand. Good eye, made solid contact. I think he got tired by the end of the season but after his workload how could he not? Not only do I give him a pass for last year, I actually think he had a solid season last year. For a good portion of time he was the 1st or 2nd best hitter in the lineup, which is a lot of pressure for a guy in his first season. The guy can handle hitting for the red sox in Boston. He gets up in big at-bats and sees more pitches per appearance and total than nearly anyone else, all of his peers (as stated in another thread) are amazng players. You want a hitter up in the 9th inning, hoping to get to Papi behind him, hoping to get someone on base to score a run. You have a guy leading off who gets on base at a .39% clip, when stats show that the leadoff hitter scores 43% of the time they get on 1st. Again, I think this guy is valuable and the sox shouldn't let him go without a good return.

But would it make you be willing to keep youk's near .400 OBP and VERY solid 1B defense at the 2 spot or 8 spot in the lineup?

Ellsbury had a big day today in the team's 12-3 victory. 2/2, 3 R, 3 BB, 3B (3rd of the season), .333 AVG on the AFL season.

Bowden is the one I'm most excited about. He's been a badass since his HS days, as opposed to Buchholz who was a converted OF (right?) in college.

Oh my god! What a horrible first full season! Egads, only 13 HR and 70 RBI, with a .380 OBP. How horrible. get that guy out of town at all costs! I buy it when you say "trade him while his value is high", I don't buy it when you imply that this guy isn't a MLB caliber 1B or 3B, or that the sox would somehow be a worse team if he played and they signed a .900+ OPS guy to bat 5th. Perhaps WMP would be a better person to try to move. He's got bigger upside, he plays a position that is easier to get power in right now (OF) and he's just as cheap. Why not move him? Or Pedroia? Or Gonzo?