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woahhh....wait a second. That is our arguement because whenever we acquire a pitcher from the NL you guys are always screaming the same arguement. The EXACT same arguement. While it may not have been you directly, many Red Sox fans, including several on this board have used that arguement against us. Talk about contradiction. Dont be worried about it, but I bet you guys are all bitching about this trade if Lowell is hitting under .200, Beckett is on the DL, and Renteria cant field a ball.

Like Yeszir, I know little about football as I am just a casual fan. I will always be watching Baseball and Basketball over Football, but might as well try to win some $$ 11/24 12:30 ET Atlanta At Detroit 11/24 4:15 ET Denver At Dallas 11/27 1:00 ET At Kansas City New England 11/27 1:00 ET At Cincinnati Baltimore 11/27 1:00 ET Carolina At Buffalo 11/27 1:00 ET At Tampa Bay Chicago 11/27 1:00 ET San Diego At Washington 11/27 1:00 ET At Minnesota Cleveland 11/27 1:00 ET At Tennessee San Francisco 11/27 1:00 ET St. Louis At Houston 11/27 4:05 ET Jacksonville At Arizona 11/27 4:05 ET At Oakland Miami 11/27 4:15 ET At Seattle NY Giants 11/27 4:15 ET At Philadelphia Green Bay 11/27 8:35 ET New Orleans At NY Jets

It is possible tha twe send Delgado to you guys as part of a Manny deal, and I was thinking about it earlier. It was also mentioned on Stephen A. Smith's show. But if you think about it, it is unlikely. We would be trading our top 3 prospetcs for Manny (Jacobs, Petit, and we would likely need to include Millege in the deal) and I dont think Omar wants to do that. Instead he will try something along the lines of Millege, Heilman, ca$h, and whatever else it takes (Trachsel, Matsui, more prospects, etc.). He did that in protest to the war, not to America. He is an American (born in Puerto Rico, and as we all know that is an american territory. he is a citizen of the U.S.) Many people protest the war. If he did it in protest to America then I would have a problem.

I am in favor of giving Bean a shot, same with Matt Smith, Proctor, etc... Though I would love to get Ryan to be the primary and all the kids to fill the rest of the pen out. I know they are unproven, but we have to give them a shot as they could become very good, cheap investments for us. Also, I am in favor of signing Giles considering the alternatives.

I over exaggerated when I said he was garbage, because he is clearly not. It is obvious that he is a pretty good pitcher and has the potential to be a great one. The only reason im making such a big deal is that you guys are making him out to be a proven Hall of Fame ace already, and its gonna come back to bite you in the butt. And example1, im not critiquing the trade, im actually happy you pulled it off, there is a good chance it hurts you. I am critquing the way you guys are tagging him Walyer Johnson. If we hgad got him and we went as crazy about it as you guys, all of you would be saying exactly the same stuff I am saying. Like how do we know this guy can even handle Boston, he is a quiet laid back guy, all the media attention in Boston might drive him crazy and hurt his career. Basically, all I am saying is that you guys should chill out a little, you dont wanna jinx it, do you? There is no denying that this trade needed to be made, but hes not god, hes not Clemens, hes not Pedro, though he could very well become that. But he could also become a Bill Pulsipher, with all the expectations and whatnot and fizzle out to nothing due to all the injuries and whatnot. You guys are looking at Beckett and Lowell as if this was 2003, its not. Beckett has been shaky last few years and Lowell was not very impressive at all last year.

If they go to Vegas you put them in the Central and put Pittsburgh in the East. If they were to go to Portland you put them in the West, Colorado in the Central, and Pittsburgh in the East. But if they go anywhere it will be to Vegas. -------------------------- People, just because the Mets got Delgado, dont count them out in the Manny sweepstakes. They still have plenty to give away. And I find it rather difficult that he would reject a trade here considering how many friends and family he has here, he would get to play in his hometown, and he would get to play with Pedro. I remember reading a few months back, around the trade deadline where a business (restuarant of some sort, I think it was a latin food joint) in Washington Heights, who happened to be friends with Manny had a Manny Mets jersey hanging on the wall. With things like that for example to influence him, I dont think he could shatter the dreams of all his friends and family and reject a trade. Picture This: SS Reyes CF Beltran 3B Wright RF Manny 1B Delgado LF Floyd C Ramon Hernandez (looking like they will take him over Molina) 2B Matsui (or whoever they get to play 2B and move Matsui to the bench) Pretty nice lineup to me. We do go from being an above average defensive team to an so-so - average defensive team, but definately go from being a so-so -average offensive team to a great offensive team. ------------------------------ Anybody besides me realize how much fun the Marlins are going to be to watch. Mike Jacobs is a potentially great player, you all know about Hanley, Cabrera at 3rd, whoever plays 2B (looks like Castilla is gone). They will just have a very fun, young team and I cant wait to watch them next year.

I posted the following in another thread but thought that more people would see it here, so forgive me for double posting. Why do you guys have so much confidence that he will be your future ace. Besides his 2003 Postseason performance, this guy has proven absolutely nothing. He is 7 games above .500 for his career (41-34), he has never gone 200 innings in a season, 3 complete games for his career, 2 career shutouts, doesnt go too deep into games (though he gets you deep enough) as he has never averaged 100 pitches per game for a season in his career, career ERA is 3.46, never had 200 K's in a season, has never started 30 games in a season (not exactly a quality I would want my ace to have), doesnt give up too many homers or walks (which is good), and something I found quite interesting is that 2005 is only the 3rd year he has finished with a w% of at least .500, only the second in which he has finished better than .500, and only the 1st in which he has finished 2 games better than .500 (15-8). And not to mention he's been on the DL about 78 times. So based on all that has been provided, I would hardly be able to consider this guy an ace. And you all know I hate to dig into the stats, but I had to, its the only way you guys understand things. Here is the link. So if you are declaring this guy the future ace based purely on his stuff, then you got another thing coming. because aces arent made because of their stuff, if that was the case Jaret Wright would be the ace of every staff, Brett Jodie would have had a long Yankee career as an ace, Yusmeiro Petit would be the #2 on the Mets staff, Craig Hansen would be the closer for Boston, and I could go on and on about guys who had/have great stuff but were/are not aces. Sorry guys. Like I said, outside of the 2003 postseason, this guy is gar-bage

Doesnt look like we're getting Gordon back, Mota would be nice but he brings some bagage (something that could be taken care of by the hostile Yankee leaders such as Jeter, Jorge, and if Tino was still there, etc..), bring in Tavarez as a kast resort as he has very good stuff but a horrible attitude (seems like). Matt Smith could be a very nice addition to our pen, as there is a a pretty good chance that if we dont reel in a top setup guy that Smith makes the club with Proctor out of Spring Training. I think Cox might need another year, but there is a good chance he could be up this season. I would also persue Ricardo Rincon for the lefty spot, I think he could be pretty decent there. As for CF, we just need to get a guy who can play the position for a year or 2 and keep it warm for Melky. Someone who can platoon with Crosby or play it everyday. Dont really know who that is, but it has to be someone because it looks like Giles wont be coming here (things could change again though). As far as im concerned, we still have a lot of work to do, but I still think we are in pretty good shape.

Nobody was making as big a deal regarding Pavano as you guys are about Beckett, NOBODY. Why do you guys have so much confidence that he will be your future ace. Besides his 2003 Postseason performance, this guy has proven absolutely nothing. He is 7 games above .500 for his career (41-34), he has never gone 200 innings in a season, 3 complete games for his career, 2 career shutouts, doesnt go too deep into games (though he gets you deep enough) as he has never averaged 100 pitches per game for a season in his career, career ERA is 3.46, never had 200 K's in a season, has never started 30 games in a season (not exactly a quality I would want my ace to have), doesnt give up too many homers or walks (which is good), and something I found quite interesting is that 2005 is only the 3rd year he has finished with a w% of at least .500, only the second in which he has finished better than .500, and only the 1st in which he has finished 2 games better than .500 (15-8). And not to mention he's been on the DL about 78 times. So based on all that has been provided, I would hardly be able to consider this guy an ace. And you all know I hate to dig into the stats, but I had to, its the only way you guys understand things. Here is the link. So if you are declaring this guy the future ace based purely on his stuff, then you got another thing coming. because aces arent made because of their stuff, if that was the case Jaret Wright would be the ace of every staff, Brett Jodie would have had a long Yankee career as an ace, Yusmeiro Petit would be the #2 on the Mets staff, Craig Hansen would be the closer for Boston, and I could go on and on about guys who had/have great stuff but were/are not aces. Sorry guys. Like I said, outside of the 2003 postseason, this guy is gar-bage

and there is no denying that he owned us. Josh Neckett of October, 2003 is a great pitcher.

well how come when the Yankees get an NL pitcher who doesnt work out its because he switched leagues. When it applies to us, its never because "baseball is baseball", but because we are dumb for going out and getting another NL pitcher. Pretty much what im trying to say, you guys can take him. I dont want him. After 2003 he was garbage. Granted, if you could guarantee me that he would pitch like he did in the 2003 postseason I would be all for getting him, but I cant say based on the past 2 years that he is a guy I would want to go out and get. Honestly.

these guys just cant get over themselves regarding this Beckett thing. But yea, there is no doubt George and Cash will respond with something big.

And when he doesnt? Same could be said for Pavano in regards to how long he's been facing NL hitters, but that never stopped anyone from counting him out based on the fact that he was an NL pitcher.

Wells is an AL pitcher, sorry buddy. And as I recall, despite his great start, Clement was hardly reliable down the road. All I was saying t=is that you guys are quick to jump on us when we get an NL pitcher, and say that hes gonna suck based on our luck the last few years, but here you guys go and get an injury-prone NL pitcher and make him out to be Cy Young all over again. thats all I was saying. It doesnt matter much to me, im pretty happy about this trade. because while, yes, there is a chance it works out great for you guys, there is also the chance that it turns out horribly. Beckett could hit the DL once or twice next year, Lowell could have similiar difficulties next year to what he had this past year. And as I recall, Lowell couldnt hit the moon if you threw it at him. Also, while Lowell is playing 3rd for you guys, unless he starts at first, Youk will be rotting away another year in Pawtucket or on the bench. I cant wait until the day next year where beckett is on the DL, Lowell is in an 0-22 slump, and Renteria is making errors left and right (much like last year) and you guys are saying "man, we should have never made this trade, now we're stuck with Renteria who cant catch the ball, Beckett who cant stay healthy, and Lowell who cant hit. I wish we still had Hanley" So good luck with this one guys, as I said, it could potentially be a great deal for you guys, but it could just as easily be a nightmare. So dont put all of your money on this one yet.

If the Josh Beckett that you guys get is the same Josh Beckett that we saw in 04-05 it will be a pleasure. But if he is on the DL half as much as he's been the last 2 years we wont be facing him too much.

thats what i'm saying. Everyone is so convinced that they have a sure thing here, but fact of the matter is that hes just another one of those NL pitchers who hasnt proven anything in the AL yet. And correct me if im wrong, but dont a lot of Sox fans always rag on us because we have gone out and got a lot of NL pitchers lately?? Like seriously, Beckett doesnt have Nolan Ryan numbers, in fact he is only 7 games above .500 for his career, and all these SWox fans are pointing to him to be their Ace.

Didnt the Marlins want to avoid paying ANYTHING on Lowell's contract? This is odd

Do you guys have a problem with him taking 21 knowing that there is a chance he has it for a while and possibly become a Hall of Fame pitcher wearing 21 for the Sox, and then there be a conflict of who to retire it for? With Clemens on the verge of retiring in the next year or so I wonder if Boston gives Beckett 21.

Or he just ends up like a lot of the NL pitchers who go to the AL and fizzle out.

you hit it right on the head, this is a great trade for Boston IF these guys can stay healthy. But there is a good possibility that Lowell is out a good portion of the season, Beckett gets gurt once or twice, and Renteria blows up the joint and everybody is saying "we shouldnt have traded Hanley" At least thats what im hoping for

I doubt they will change the name, but regardless of if it is called MOst Valueable or not, the player of the year still deserves it. When they were naming the award decades ago Im sure MVP was just a name they chose that sounded good, I dont think they actually intended it to go to the Most Valueable Player, otherwise Mo Rivera would have numerous awards, as would Jeter, as would Clemens, as would Eckersly, as would Munson, as would Fisk, etc..

I see what you are saying, I thought you were making a case against A-Rod. I also understand your arguement about value. But this a little bit screwed up because even though it is called the Most valueable Player award, it's really the Player of the Year award.

A-Rod led in more major categories, he hit more home runs, he played better defense, he was simply the better player this year. Thats like determining a gold glove winner based on how many putouts he had during night games in the month of July on odd numbered days. Its ridiculous.

no, thanks anyway dont worry about the chain. Home robbery Having the roughest weekend In my life right now

got mine today, thanks rick Good thing it came today and not yesterday, because i got robbed yesterday of all my valueables, including my jewelry Im really bummed out so i think im gonna go to bed, thanks a lot Rick.