yankees228

The Mets did it. My point was that I felt like ORS was saying that Boras wouldn't even go back to the other team. If I misread what he wrote, I apologize.

And after they go back to the Yankees, they could just as easily go back to the other teams. We really don't know exactly how these negotiations go down, but it's very possible that after they go to the Yankees, they'll check back with the previous club (in some cases, the Red Sox) to allow them to top the offer. They can just keep doing this until someone decides that they're not going to top the other team's latest offer.

Out of all qualified AL shortstops (10), Jeter finished 4th in UZR/150 (at 8.4). That was actually ahead of Aybar. There were better choices, but Jeter wasn't an awful choice, and he certainly has more range than you think.

So why do you think Teixeira choose to sign with the Yankees, instead of the Red Sox?

So Jacko, seeing as you have been absent from the discussions, as a Yankee fan, does that bother you?

So what are you saying here? That Teixeira spurned his best offer, and went to the Yankees, because he wanted to be a Yankee? I'm not inferring anything, just looking for clarification.

I'm also curious to see if the Red Sox respond. It is possible though, where it's a lie or not, that the Red Sox front office simply won't respond because they want to avoid getting into a war of words with Boras. If they choose not to respond, I'm not sure how much we can read into it.

Have to do something to remember the moment. It is likely going to be a very long time before we see something this extraordinary again.

Fair enough. I think we've generally reached a consensus here. The system has it's flaws. The Yankees, within the rules, take advantage of those flaws, because they're the team that is best equipped to do so. That helps them a lot on the field, but they still have to go out and earn all those wins, which, for the first time since 2000, they did.

Obviously it gives them an on-field advantage. That wasn't my point at all. My point was that, between the lines, they play by the same rules as everyone else. So, in that sense, the competition is still fair, which, in my opinion, makes their accomplishments legitimate.

All you're showing is that the Yankees have an advantage. I'm not disputing this. I just don't think it's producing a delegitimate result. In my opinion, your analogy would only be applicable if the Yankees were receiving some sort of advantage on the field. Because the conditions were fair on the field, I'm of the opinion that the championship is legitimate. The only championship in baseball that I would be willing to call delegitimate is the 1919 Chicago White Sox. In fact, I think you can make better cases for other championships than the 2009 Yankees. Do you think the 1985 Royals championship is delegitimate?

I was thinking about the sentiment that this championship is delegitimized, and I wanted to revisit it once more. I completely, 100%, disagree. The Yankees have an enormous financial advantage. One of the main reasons they won this championship was because of that enormous financial advantage. And the system is clearly flawed. However, this championship is completely legitimate, in my opinion, for two reasons. 1. Everything the Yankees did was well within the rules. 2. While they had an enormous advantage, they still had to go out on the field and perform, including winning three short series, which is incredibly difficult. They have proven many times that these championships are not won by writing checks. There have been 105 Major League Baseball champions. In my opinion, 104 of them were legitimate, and that 1 is not the 2009 Yankees.

Fair enough. Because there was no price, I thought you guys were actually picking what you thought would happen. I admit to being wrong, and I apologize for calling you out on it. However, my argument still stands that the Yankees did not necessarily do what was expected of them. While the oddsmakers favored the Yankees, before the playoffs started, there were plenty of other people who thought they weren't going to win the World Series. Some people liked the Phillies offense. Others liked the Cards one two punch. You get what I'm saying. And, before the year, there were even more people questioning how good the Yankees were. Especially since A-Rod went out, there were many people who thought the only sure thing in the Yankees' lineup was Teixeira. Which brings me back to the point that Jeter, Damon, Matsui, Posada, and Swisher all outperformed expectations (which you refuted), and some did it by wide margins. There was also a lot of concerns about the Yankees pitching, and most of those proved to be accurate. My point is that you cannot say the Yankee players, and Yankee team, simply did what was expected of them. As for what I thought would happen, based on those questions, and what I thought to be superior Red Sox pitching, I thought they would win the division, with the Yankees taking the Wild Card. I didn't predict that on this site before the year, but I made many references to it throughout the summer, and I was even paying more attention to the Rays than I was to the Red Sox. As for the World Series, I speculate and analyze, but I don't really offer up predictions for the same reason I don't bet on baseball. Over a small sample size, it's simply too unpredictable.

Dipre and I are having the same conversation in another thread. Just like in ours, both sides bring up good points. There are logical arguments that say the Red Sox could have had Teixeira, and there are logical arguments that say he was definitely going to the Yankees. The problem is, past that, it's nothing more than conjecture. Neither side can claim to be right in this matter, because we simply don't know. At this point I think we just have to acknowledge that both opinions are valid and logical, and move past it.

Those are all valid points. But there are multiple logical scenarios, which I already mentioned, that might have put Teixeira in a Red Sox uniform. I really don't think you're being fair here. I'm not saying you wouldn't have ended up being right, because it's very possible that you would have been, but it's also possible that things would have turned out differently. I'm not in any position to make such a definitive statement, and neither are you. Logic exists on the both sides of the argument. At this point we're rehashing the same stuff, so we'll have to agree to disagree I guess.

They had that same gaping hole in center field going into 2005. They might have, been it might have only taken a couple million more for the Red Sox to get him. Or Teixeira might have just signed with the Red Sox. It's all conjecture, and it's foolish to assume one way or another. It would be illogical to ignore that fact.

It's possible. It's also possible that Teixeira would have signed on the spot, and not wanted to haggle over a little more money he could have gotten from the Yankees. It's also possible that, if given the opportunity, the Yankees wouldn't top the Red Sox offer. It wouldn't be the first time they turned down a star, after having already made big splashes. It's all conjecture, and nothing more. It's ridiculous to say the Red Sox would have definitely had Teixeira, but it's just as ridiculous to that he would have gone to the Yankees no matter what.

All depends what, and who, you believe. It's not a black and white issue, like some, on both sides of the argument, want to paint it.

That wouldn't surprise me, because they have a lot of money coming off the books. My point is, you're not going to see another offseason where the Yankees corner the market, and sign three huge names. They're also not going to be in on guys like Gonzalez or Halladay. The Red Sox have plenty of different routes they can go.