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This is a series the Sox need to win. To take 2 of 3, they need to win tonight with Bronson on the hill. Still no idea why Miller was scratched, but oh well. Bronson's been up and down all year, but he was much better last year after the All Star break so hopefully he'll turn it up a notch for us starting tonight.

s***. Could Miller be injured? That's the last thing we need.

Well, here comes another eleven pages. Is it me, or is every person quoting un-named sources full of crap? Aren't the un-named sources the same people who claimed AJ Burnett was already a member of the Orioles? Or even the Red Sox? That having been said, depending on the prospects, I'd make that deal.

http://www.talksox.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=138&stc=1 I'm really bad with Microsoft Paint, but you get the picture. Theo, make it happen.

They did but they got burned by that Victor Zambrano deal (for Kazmir) and I think they'll be a lot more careful this time around. Of course, Victor Zambrano and Manny Ramirez are not even in the same stratosphere talent wise, but you get my point-- that was a very stupid trade and they should have learned their lesson.

Wow, how quickly we forget. Mark Bellhorn played like an allstar for a period of about 4 games (the last two in NY, then the first 2 in Boston) last October. This is the same guy who couldn't hit a damn thing against Anahim or while the Red Sox were losing early in the ALCS. So saying that he "Played as an all star in the October playoffs" is giving him a little too much credit. I really like Mark Bellhorn, and even though a lot of folks have critisized him this year, I've been consistent in my assertion that he was not the team's biggest problem, and that they did not have a better solution. I was wrong about one thing: Tony Graffanino is a BETTER solution. He plays very well and is exactly the kind of solid ballplayer you want as your second baseman. Despite all the hype about how Bellhorn works counts and takes walks, Tony G gets on base more often, doesn't strike out nearly as much, and he is capable of working some deep counts. He's just as good as Bellhorn if not better defensively....

Now now. The Yankees have PLENTY of players currently on their roster who came through the farm: Rivera, Jeter, Williams, Posada, all players who played key roles during their late 90s dominance.

Thanks John, finally a voice of reason!

I like reading the rediculously long post because it fascinates me. First, Tek: Good point about Omar not being the GM of the Mets when Manny was on waivers. Gives a man hope. Now on to Schilling's comments: I understand I'm in the minority here, but at this point I see a trade of Manny Ramirez as addition by subtraction. I know his clubhouse presense isn't THAT bad, but think about how you'd feel if one of your co-workers was making 10x what you were, and you KNEW it, and he was ducking out early on Fridays? You'd be PISSED off. Nobody's saying anything, but guys like Varitek, Nixon, Mueller, have got to want to throttle Manny by now. I know I would. I was pissed that I spent $100+ a ticket to see my beloved Red Sox and Ramirez asked out of that game early (7/20). Imagine how the players feel? He's letting his team down and he's not earning his paycheck. Speaking of his paycheck, imagine what the Red Sox could do with that extra money? No, they couldn't replace Manny's bat with one player, but they could drastically improve the team in other ways and could make up for the loss very easily. $20 million a year is a lot of effing money, especially a guy who refuses to run out ground balls. I'm fed up with Manny Ramirez. It's a good thing I'm not in charge of the Red Sox because I'd have traded him YEARS ago, the first time he started bitching. I sincerely believe that the Red Sox could cut a deal with the Mets. I think this is a GOLDEN opportunity to trade Manny Ramirez and Kevin Millar (The Mets are said to be interested in also getting an offensive first baseman) and I'd do it for prospects, or I'd do it for a package that centered around the likes of Mike Cameron (who I like, it's no secret) and others. I'd LOVE for the Sox to get their hands on a guy like David Wright for all the reasons you guy have already stated. I just don't think it's realistic right now. I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

This is true, but the second best farm system in the division, plus the ownership comitment/money to fill wholes, this should make us more dangerous than the Yankees for the upcoming seasons. The Red Sox won't ever outspend the Yankees, but I've been saying for years that it's not the money you spend, it's HOW you spend it. We've got quite a few impact players coming soon: Pedroia, Ramirez, Papelbon, Lester, Declarman while the Yankees have Cano already here, and Duncan a possibility. Also, considering our farm system is stronger than Baltimore and Toronto as well, we should at least be in contention for the division every year for a while. For the first time in a long time, the future in Boston looks bright.

SITN-- I agree with you most of the time, but I'm siding with Crespo on this issue. You guys are living in a dream world. This is the same Manny Ramirez who the Red Sox put on IRREVOCABLE waivers 2 years ago. Meaning any team could have picked him up for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING if they were willing to take on his contract. The Mets, among other teams, did not take that chance. What makes you believe they will have changed their minds, now willing to not only take on that contract, but give up TOP NOTCH talent in the process? It just doesn't make sense. I understand your theory that the Mets are infatuated with Latin players, and Manny Ramirez would fit in well with that plan, but it doesn't make sense. The problem with trying to pry top notch talent from the Mets is this: Theo has NO BARGAINING power here. There's one team that would even think about picking up Manny Ramirez, and that's the Mets. Because there's that ONE team interested, the Red Sox are forced to either accept what the Mets have to offer, or keep him. Considering that he's undermining the team with his selfish antics, it's very widely known that the Red Sox would not only LOVE to unload his contract, but that they'd do it for NOTHING (like they tried to do it 2 years ago). Would Omar Minaya give up his top young players on good faith? That's not how these guys work. If Theo Epstein somehow gets David Wright in a trade for Manny Ramirez, he should instantly win executive of the year award.... because that's amazing in my book.

What word? Do you have a source on that? (RE: The Sox pushing for Wright). I wouldn't classify Benson as an "excellent" pitcher. He's been helped out a lot by pitching half his games at Shea Stadium (as I pointed out before) which is a pitcher's park. He wouldn't have that advantage. He's about 1:1 groundball to flyball, and he doesn't strike out a lot of batters so he would depend a great deal on the defense. Now with Cameron in the fold that defense would be greatly improved so that wouldn't be as big a deal, but the Sox defense is average at best. I would say Kris Benson is a #4 starter-- maybe #3.

I realize this is WAY off topic, but I'll chime in anyway. If I had to keep 2 of those three, honestly, I'd choose Tony G and Alex Cora. Bellhorn has the most power of all three, but we've seen what he's capable of and it's nothing spectacular. It seems to be that both Graffanino and Cora are equal to or better than Bellhorn defensively, and Tony G is just as valuable offensively. It pains me to say this because I know Soxie's coming back with some negativity my way.... but those two, in my opinion, render Mark Bellhorn obsolete.

Not a bad choice, especially if the Red Sox can convince the Pirates to take on part of Matt Lawton's contract. The Pirates and Red Sox have a history of making deals, and we made the deal right when they complained about Brandon Lyon's arm a few years back, so we should have a good relationship with them. Matt Lawton's overall numbers are decent, and he's very clearly a better hitter against righties (.290/.398./.469) than he is against lefties (.235,.331,.363), but that would work out perfectly with Gabe Kapler coming back to hit against lefties. Plus, Matt Lawton is capable of swiping a bag. He's 8 for 8 in July. He's way overpaid for what he brings to the table ($7.75 million) but he'd be a decent option as a platoon right fielder for the Sox.

That means my trade idea was the closest. I was the only person to mention Cameron. I know y'all are hell bent on getting Wright, but that trade works for the Red Sox IMO: I've already stated why I like Cameron. He doesn't have the offensive prowess of Ramirez, but he DOES have a tremendous glove in the outfield, a decent bat, and speed on the basepaths (a welcome addition IMO). Plus, Cameron is hitting .283/.369/.547 away from Shea, and he'd be moving into a hitters' park at Fenway. On the same token, Kris Benson is a COMPLETELY different pitcher on the road vs at Shea stadium. At home, he's 4-2 with a 2.31 ERA. On the road, 3-1 with a 4.62 ERA. That makes me a bit nervous. Overall, his numbers are decent but unimpressive. He's got a 5.40 K/9 ratio and 2.5 K/BB. That's good because he doesn't seem to get himself in a lot of trouble with walks, but he doesn't blow people away. All I kept hearing about Braden Looper this season was that he was incapable of closing. That having been said, he's 22 for 26 in save opportunities and has a 3.05 ERA for the season. There are some troubling numbers with him, like his 4.23 K/9 and 1.39 K/BB, meaning this guy simply doesn't dominate opposing hitters. They're hitting .247 against him. This guy was an average setup man in Florida, and took a lot of crap in NY because he wasn't a dominant closer, but he could be an average setup man again in Boston. Cameron $7.3 million Benson $5.3 million Looper $5.3 million Manny: $20 million The best part as far as I'm concerned with this deal is that the Red Sox are making out ahead of the game as far as money goes. Sure, it's only a couple million, but 3 slightly overpaid players are way more managable than one WAY overpaid player. The Red Sox add a back end of the rotation starter, a gold glove outfielder, and another arm for what is still a below average bullpen. I like this trade idea.

Wow. For all the talk about Hanley Ramirez, he's behind 3 other Red Sox players, and barely cracks the top 10 in that list.

I don't know the first thing about the two Yankees prospects given up, but they don't seem to be considered impact prospects at this point. Shawn might actually become a decent acquisition for the Yankees. He had a 3.12 ERA in 6 starts away from Coors. Sure, he was 0-5, but the Rockies are the worst team in the NL (if not all of baseball) so getting wins for that team isn't exactly easy. Also, he's only allowed 1 homer in 34 innings, so he's capable of keeping the ball in the park. What would concern me if I were a Yankee fan is his K:BB ratio-- he's actually walked MORE batters than he's struck out (21:20) which would make me pretty nervous. A 5.29 K/9 ratio isn't horrible, but it isn't great either. He'll be depending a lot on the Yankee defense..... He's by no means a sure thing, but he's (IMO) the best scrap heap pitcher the Yankees have picked up this season (Lieter, Nomo, Small, etc).

Houston is very much in the Wild Card race and Roger's staying there. Here's a crazy idea: Manny for Oswalt The Red Sox get the pitcher they so desperately need, while the Astros get the bat.

Yup. Like I said before, Manny Ramirez is like a two year old. His offensive prowess is not enough (IMO) to offset all the negativity surrounding him.

If the Sox somehow miraculously acquire David Wright they should do Youkilis a favor and trade him somewhere where he'll start. He deserves to be an everyday player in the bigs IMO. The thing that bugs me about Todd Helton is that his home/road splits are alarming this season. Home: .331/.454/.550 Road: .257/.375/.389 Granted, over the past three years he's averaged .310/.422/.517 away from Coors, so this season COULD be a fluke. Acquiring Helton would be a good start, but the Red Sox would need a right handed threat to complement David Ortiz. Otherwise a lefty specialist ala Mike Myers could eat us alive in the playoffs.

Personally, I'd like to see the Red Sox go after a right fielder who can also play first base. Why? Because that'll push out Kevin Millar when Trot Nixon comes back, no Jay Payton syndrome necessary. Adam Dunn? Aubrey Huff? Guys like that. If they're looking for a low risk addition, how about Jose Cruz Jr? Not going to tear up the league with his bat, but he's very solid at all 3 outfield positions and is decent offensively. More power than Kapler, and I think I heard he was DFA'd by Arizona which could mean acquiring him cheaply. He's a switch hitter who's better against lefties than righties, so perhaps he could be in a straight up platoon with Kapler until Nixon comes back? Just a thought.

I think you guys are correct in saying Wright would be the preferred player, I mean look at how this team is set up-- we've got a wide open third base job next year and why not fill it with the best young third baseman in the game? I also think that for all the same reasons the Red Sox would want to acquire David Wright, the Mets will want to keep him. I could be wrong, and hopefully Theo makes a great trade. Hell, if Wright comes in a Manny Ramirez deal, it would be that much easier to trade Mueller to the Twins for a reliever! I just don't see the Mets letting Wright go. I also think you guys are overestimating the trade value on a guy like Manny Ramirez. He's WAY overpaid (second highest in the game), he's a liability in the outfield, he's slower than molasses, his effort is severely lacking, and he's been extremely selfish over the course of his Red Sox career. How many teams will be interested in taking on that player under these circumstances? My guess would be JUST the Mets. If that's the case, Theo has very little leverage in the dealmaking process.

I really do like Gabe Kapler and wouldn't mind seeing him get a fair amount of playing time with the Red Sox come Saturday. That having been said, be careful with your expectations for Gabe. He'll probably hit .270, hit a few homers, and steal a few bases while playing great defense in right field. He's a great 4th outfielder, but Detroit, Texas, and Colorado gave up on this guy becuase they didn't think he was an everyday player.

As much as I agree with you Soxie, I don't think getting those two is realistic. Those are the types of ballplayers the Mets should be building around. I'll let Theo work out the details, but how about a Mets deal that looks like so: Mets get: Manny Ramirez, Kevin Millar, (Embree? Halama?) Red Sox get: Mike Cameron, Tom Glavine, Jose Reyes. Why this works for the Red Sox: We get rid of Manny Ramirez' gigantic contract and bad attitude. We give up two solid offensive players in Ramirez and Millar, but we get Mike Cameron who can play centerfield for the Red Sox, shifting Johnny Damon and his weak arm to left where it won't matter as much. Cameron is nowhere near the offensive player Ramirez is, but he's got a slick glove, a decent bat, and good speed to go along with it. Tom Glavine isn't the same pitcher he used to be, but could fill in well at the back end of the rotation and allow Bronson Arroyo to strengthen the bullpen immediately. Jose Reyes takes over second base for the Red Sox immediately. Why this works for the Mets: The New York Mets are improving offensively in two positions: right field with Manny Ramirez and first base with Kevin Millar. Also, if they add a guy like Embree in this deal they get an extra arm for their weak bullpen. In order to assume Manny's salary, the Red Sox will have to take on some undesirable contracts. Cameron and Glavine both make a lot of money, and the financial aspect of this deal is almost even. Jose Reyes is a small price to pay for the best run producer in the game, and Willie Randolph's no BS managing style will probably help Manny get straightened out.

The Mets would be stupid to do that, but hell yes, I'd take it. David Wright is a future superstar and Jose Reyes is just oozing with talent. His kind of energy would be a welcome addition to the Sox team. I have to say that I hate it when anyone says "Manny being Manny." Dude-- he gets payed $160 million dollars to play a game. To do something any one of us would do for free. He gets more vacation time than anyone deserves, and all they ask him to do is hit. The past couple weeks he's asked out of a bunch of games (remember the July 20th game in Boston against Tampa? He came out of that game early too) and this is the last straw. Anyone who knows me knows that I've critisized Manny Ramirez heavily the past few years. His lack of energy and effort are sickening to me. Yes, he produces, but so did Carl Everett.... and who misses him? OK, that was low I admit. But I'm sick of his antics. It's time the Red Sox move on from Manny just being Manny. He can take his selfish, spoiled-brat lazy ass attitude to another team as far as I'm concerned. The problem is nobody else is stupid enough to pay his entire contract.