2012 MLB Playoff Thread

[Divinity]

Watching the Tigers get shut out of this WS has been awesome, now they know what it feels like to be the Yankees.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

f*** it, as long as i got to see the Yankees get rocked and not win a title

[jacksonianmarch]

I just want it to end tonight, so we can move into the offseason

[Bellhorn04]

This World Series is reminiscent of the 1966 Series which saw Baltimore sweep the Dodgers by scores of 5-2, 6-0, 1-0 and 1-0.

[Divinity]

It's pretty funny two teams named the Giants will have two championships in the last 5 years and they'll both be winning it in the same year.

[Palodios]

This postseason makes me wonder, exactly why teams put so much time into developing elite hitters. Teams like the Giants build pitching juggernauts, and then hobble together an offense with mid-tier pieces like Cabrera, Scutaro, Xavier Nady, and their hitting ends up being less important.

[Bellhorn04]

This postseason makes me wonder, exactly why teams put so much time into developing elite hitters. Teams like the Giants build pitching juggernauts, and then hobble together an offense with mid-tier pieces like Cabrera, Scutaro, Xavier Nady, and their hitting ends up being less important.

 

Different formulas have been successful. When the Red Sox won in 2004 and 2007 they had elite hitters and good to very good, but not great, starting pitching.

 

Some teams have slugged their way to titles like the 2002 Angels.

 

But in the postseason the balance usually tilts toward elite pitching, and this postseason we have really seen pitching dominate.

 

Overall the balance in baseball has tilted toward pitching the last few years as runs scored have steadily declined. I wouldn't be surprised to see Selig make some sort of rules tweak to increase scoring, similar to what was done after 1968, because I think TV ratings this postseason have been hurt by the low scoring. We all like a good pitchers duel sometimes but a steady string of 2-1 and 2-0 games gets a little boring.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

When you say rules to tweak the increase of scoring, what do you think will be done?

[Bellhorn04]

When you say rules to tweak the increase of scoring, what do you think will be done?

 

No idea. The last rule change in 1969 lowered the mound 6 inches or something like that, and it made a big difference.

 

The 'informal' way to do it, I guess, would be to pass the word to umps to tighten up their strike zones.

[Divinity]

Overall the balance in baseball has tilted toward pitching the last few years as runs scored have steadily declined. I wouldn't be surprised to see Selig make some sort of rules tweak to increase scoring, similar to what was done after 1968, because I think TV ratings this postseason have been hurt by the low scoring. We all like a good pitchers duel sometimes but a steady string of 2-1 and 2-0 games gets a little boring.

 

I don't think low scoring games is whats hurting ratings that much. First of all the fact you have two smaller market teams has quite a bit to do with it. A WS with the Cubs vs the Yanks/Sox/Angels for example would generate much higher ratings. Plus MLB has to compete with other very popular TV shows/sports. I think the days of the WS approaching a 30.0 rating are over though because time's are changing. The dependency upon television doesn’t exist in the same manner as it once did. With an endless array of web sites, Twitter and extensive media coverage, fans are able to easily obtain all of the necessary information in a two minute window instead of committing three hours to watching an entire game.

[jacksonianmarch]

Giants back on top! 4 innings away from the offseason. Potentially 5 more days until free agency!

[redsoxrules]

Giants win , Scutaro game winning hit !

[jung]

I think Selig is in a box here. He does not have a "legitimate" means to up the offense. You are not going to see rules changes that turns baseball's history into a shambles...not going to happen.

 

In anything the DH may have run its course. AL teams are increasingly one dimensional offensively and are relatively weak defensively. They can match their NL opponents in pitching but it is simply to easy for good pitching to shut down teams that either mash or lose and all to often that describes your typical AL team.

 

Pitching has declined in periods of expansion when the resulting number of pitchers was not sufficient for the number of teams initially and via rules changes. However I don't see any expansion on the horizon and I don't see any rules changes that will salvage offense without making a shambles of baseball's history.

 

I do see the quality of hitting going down the tubes as hitters are simply not prepared for good pitching. They are not selective enough and they do not follow the principles of good hitting that have been there since the beginning of time. They swing 0-0 at anything that looks like a strike. They do not protect the plate with two strikes. They do not try to go to the opposite field nearly enough when they are being pitched that way. Hitters have simply grown to used to pitchers leaving mistakes over the plate and so now they swing based more on the law of averages than anything else.

 

Look at how feeble the Yanks looked both against the O's and Detroit...continually swinging over sliders, insisting that this slider was going to be the one that flattened out conveniently for them. Well the Yankee hitters never got that slider against Detroit. Is it any wonder that the only two Yankee hitters, Ichiro and Jeter, that went to the plate hitting the way good hitters all used to go to the plate faired much better. Is it any wonder that the only other Yankee hitter that did well, Raul is a guy in his forties.

 

The only change that I think may be due is the end of the DH. It has become a burden that makes it very difficult for an AL team to beat an NL team in the post season when the focus and the intensity is through the roof and the AL team simply does not have enough tools to win. Either mash or lose works AL team against AL team and in the regular season but it does not work after that.

[Divinity]

The only change that I think may be due is the end of the DH. It has become a burden

 

The DH is a burden? I don't understand, wouldn't having your pitcher at the plate be more of a burden?

[jacksonianmarch]

Jung, this is just a standard ebb and flow of the game. We just aren't seeing the ridiculous offensive numbers we started seeing 15 yrs ago since these players cannot be so obviously on roids

[jung]

Well for one thing....it should be pretty obvious to us that PED use is still going on in MLB....I don't know by what measure we could possibly judge it to be less or more but we certainly can see enough to know that it is still with us. So roids are way to simplistic an explanation for what is happening here.Yes there is ebb and flow in this game. The elements that have an impact on offense and other aspects of the game are dynamic.

 

However these are not numbers that are spiking. They are trending and have been since at least 2006. Runs are down significantly and trending in both leagues. Batting average is down and trending in both leagues. The only difference is that the NL numbers are not coming down as quickly. 2012 BA finished at .253 for the NL and .255 for the AL. 002 points of BA in spite of the fact that pitchers are batting in the NL. The AL has lost 20 points of BA since 2006 and the NL has lost 12 points of BA since the same year. Runs scored on average per team down to 721 for the AL and 683 for the NL way off their peaks of the early 2000's.

 

Starting pitching is making yet another come back in the numbers of quality starting pitchers. Only this time starting pitching is coming back at a time when relief pitching has been fully developed. We now have relief pitchers slotted for virtually every inning of a game from long relief though specific 7th and 8th inning set up and closer.

 

We have had other instances in baseballs history of pitching coming back to prominence recovering from down periods. Some down periods are the result of expansion for example. Expansion thins the pool of good pitchers. In other instances rules changes have caused a regression in pitching with pitchers ultimately recovering whatever was lost to them in the rules changes. However I do not see any expansion on the horizon that would significantly thin the ranks of quality pitchers and I don't see rules changes coming either. In my view and I have said this before we are going back to the 1960's style of baseball where pitching truly dominates and defense is once again an more important element of the game. We may not get all the way back to the 1960's but the trend is clearly there and I don't see changes coming in the elements that would forestall a continued decline in the importance of power in wining games when confronted by teams that feature equal pitching, stout defense and multidimensional instead of one dimensional power offense. Defense will return to importance because the ball is going to stay in the yard more often giving fielders more opportunity to shine.

 

AL teams are simply to one dimensional, to dependent on power to generate offense and power happens to be the easiest thing for good pitching to shut down! if we are satisfied as AL proponents with seeing our teams beat each others brains in only to get waxed in the WS where the focus and intensity are through the roof then fine....we can go on just like this. However if getting to the WS and then getting waxed there is not appealing to us, then the AL needs to change.

 

The AL teams are all of a feather, virtually all to one dimensional in their pursuit of offense and the one thing that distinguishes them from the NL is the DH. The nature of the beast is to employ the DH the way AL teams employ them and that has created this bias toward power in pursuit of offense. It is hard to miss. You can't really be telling me that you believe that the Yanks were the only AL team in the post season that featured such piss poor plate appearances. As I said before the O's/Yanks series was a travesty, an exercise to determine which team was the more futile....although I have seen folks describe the "action" in that series as "dramatic". I don't know what is dramatic about seeing hitters swinging and missing over slider after slider insisting on trying to pull pitches that you can't pull!

 

The increased focus and intensity of the post season makes the post season a preview for play in the regular season. Shortly I expect NL teams to start waxing AL teams in regular season inter-league play. So again if we are content seeing our AL teams beat each other to death only to make embarrassing showings in the WS, and eventually in inter-league play we don't have to change at all.