Bill James's comments on Sandusky and Paterno

[SCM33]

I don't agree with this necessarily. It is possible for people not to know what their friends are up to. I had a friend in high school who turned out to be a rapist. I didn't find out until someone finally reported him to the police.

 

The problem is that Joe Paterno wasn't Sandusky's friend, he was his co-worker. The acts took place in an area that was part of their workplace. If someone I worked with molested kids, I might not know it. If someone I worked with molested kids, at my job, during work hours, and it was reported to me and my co-workers, then I would have no excuse not to call the police.

 

We can't condemn people just for knowing a pedophile. We can condemn them for knowing about one.

 

Right. Paterno knew about one, and covered it up.....for years.

 

Bill James defended him. Thats my problem with the whole thing.

[BornToRun]

The success percentage of rehabilitation for sex offenders is so small as to be statistically insignificant. The recidivism rate for sex crimes is astronomical, and that is only counting those repeat offenders who are caught. Sex crimes are like DUIs. For every one that a person is caught and convicted of, there are probably dozens that they got away with, because of victims who are too afraid or ashamed to say anything.

 

I am a fan of permanent incarceration for sexual offenders, so we can study them in hopes of learning more about their conditions.

 

I'm not one to dispute those numbers. I was just trying to be an *******.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Human sexuality fascinates me. It drives so much of what we do and say, consciously and unconsciously. As many of you know I have a little experience with sexual deviancy myself, so I have always been interested in the sheer number of various sexual preferences and fetishes out there in the world. Most of them range from harmless to "None of my business, but please don't tell me about it". But violent/non-consensual sex and sex crimes against children are considered the worst, and for good reason. To really delve into the human psyche, I can't think of any better way than to study sexual psychoses and sexual behavior in-depth, with people as the test subjects. And since long-term in-depth study of sexual behavior in the average citizen isn't feasible on a scale large enough to provide a scientifically valid sample, what better way to learn more about the human condition than by conducting these tests and studies on people with sexual problems who are already under lock and key?

[SCM33]

I'm not one to dispute those numbers. I was just trying to be an *******.

 

Why?

[Elktonnick]

The success percentage of rehabilitation for sex offenders is so small as to be statistically insignificant. The recidivism rate for sex crimes is astronomical, and that is only counting those repeat offenders who are caught. Sex crimes are like DUIs. For every one that a person is caught and convicted of, there are probably dozens that they got away with, because of victims who are too afraid or ashamed to say anything.

 

I am a fan of permanent incarceration for sexual offenders, so we can study them in hopes of learning more about their conditions.

 

You are correct again. All the research indicates that it is virtually impossible to rehabilitate sex offenders beyond the age of 16. Now when we speak of sex offenders one must be careful some relatively minor offenses are erroneously classified as sex offenders. Serious sex offenders include serial rapists such as Sandusky. BTW there are unconfirmed reports coming out of PA that there are dozens more potential Sandusky victims contacting PA state police. If true this case is just beginning rather than ending.

[SCM33]

Human sexuality fascinates me. It drives so much of what we do and say' date=' consciously and unconsciously. As many of you know I have a little experience with sexual deviancy myself, so I have always been interested in the sheer number of various sexual preferences and fetishes out there in the world. Most of them range from harmless to "None of my business, but please don't tell me about it". But violent/non-consensual sex and sex crimes against children are considered the worst, and for good reason. To really delve into the human psyche, I can't think of any better way than to study sexual psychoses and sexual behavior in-depth, with people as the test subjects. And since long-term in-depth study of sexual behavior in the average citizen isn't feasible on a scale large enough to provide a scientifically valid sample, what better way to learn more about the human condition than by conducting these tests and studies on people with sexual problems who are already under lock and key?[/quote']

 

That would never fly. Civil rights groups would be all over it. No matter what kind of crime was committed.......

[Youk Of The Nation]

I'm not talking about dissecting them or anything. Just interviewing them. Deep psychological counseling, making them write and explain how they feel. MRIs, any kind of non-invasive medical test. See what makes these guys tick.

[SCM33]

I'm not talking about dissecting them or anything. Just interviewing them. Deep psychological counseling' date=' making them write and explain how they feel. MRIs, any kind of non-invasive medical test. See what makes these guys tick.[/quote']

 

Most of them are just like alcoholics.

 

They dont think they have a problem. "Everyone in here is innocent" haha.

[Elktonnick]

Most of them are just like alcoholics.

 

They dont think they have a problem. "Everyone in here is innocent" haha.

 

No they aren't. Many sexual predators have been abused as children or exposed to extreme violence as children.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Most of them are just like alcoholics.

 

They dont think they have a problem. "Everyone in here is innocent" haha.

 

 

Sexual deviancy doesn't come out of nowhere. It has to be some combination of genetics, circumstances, and mental illness. No one just decides to become a pedophile one day because there is nothing better to do.

[SCM33]

Sexual deviancy doesn't come out of nowhere. It has to be some combination of genetics' date=' circumstances, and mental illness. No one just decides to become a pedophile one day because there is nothing better to do.[/quote']

 

Alcoholics are everything you just said.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Sorry, I should have made it clearer that I was agreeing with you.

 

Pedophilia is a disorder. It doesn't make them innocent but it should make us more inclined to figure out how to treat it, or eradicate it. Chemical castration should be a last-ditch option. No one wants to bother with figuring these things out, they just want to chuck these guys in prison for however long, put them on a list, and call it a job well done.

[SCM33]

Sorry, I should have made it clearer that I was agreeing with you.

 

Pedophilia is a disorder. It doesn't make them innocent but it should make us more inclined to figure out how to treat it, or eradicate it. Chemical castration should be a last-ditch option. No one wants to bother with figuring these things out, they just want to chuck these guys in prison for however long, put them on a list, and call it a job well done.

 

Its a tough discussion.

 

We are wasting money keeping them incarcerated.

 

We would waste money trying to rehab them.

 

We are wasting bed space inside of facilities.

 

I would say a 3 strike and your executed deal, but that would allow for too many people to get hurt, and they would sit on death row forever....again wasting time, money and space.

[Elktonnick]

Sorry, I should have made it clearer that I was agreeing with you.

 

Pedophilia is a disorder. It doesn't make them innocent but it should make us more inclined to figure out how to treat it, or eradicate it. Chemical castration should be a last-ditch option. No one wants to bother with figuring these things out, they just want to chuck these guys in prison for however long, put them on a list, and call it a job well done.

 

I investigated my first sex abuse case in 1974 when I was with the Commonwealth of Mass. Since then I have been involved with hundreds of cases over the past forty years in numerous jurisdictions around the world. The following is as good an explanation as I've read about pedophilia

 

Here is an excerpt from the Encyclopedeia of Mental Illness:

 

 

"Most experts regard pedophilia as resulting from psychosocial factors rather than biological characteristics. Some think that pedophilia is the result of having been sexually abused as a child. Still others think that it derives from the person's interactions with parents during their early years of life. Some researchers attribute pedophilia to arrested emotional development; that is, the pedophile is attracted to children because he or she has never matured psychologically. Some regard pedophilia as the result of a distorted need to dominate a sexual partner. Since children are smaller and usually weaker than adults, they may be regarded as nonthreatening potential partners. This drive for domination is sometimes thought to explain why most pedophiles are males."

 

Read more: Pedophilia - children, causes, DSM, functioning, therapy, adults, person, people http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia.html#ixzz20pXBGoSc

[Youk Of The Nation]

I've read minddisorder's page on pedophila before. It's not as detailed as it could be. Their sexual sadism and masochism pages are also oversimplified.

 

Hell, come to think of it, most of their pages are written as if for the extreme layman. Even the Wiki pages on these things are much more detailed.

[Elktonnick]

I've read minddisorder's page on pedophila before. It's not as detailed as it could be. Their sexual sadism and masochism pages are also oversimplified.

 

Hell, come to think of it, most of their pages are written as if for the extreme layman. Even the Wiki pages on these things are much more detailed.

 

This a baseball forum not a forum for the discussion of subjects of this nature. I kept it simple for the layman. My purpose is to spark an interest for those who wish to learn more and to explore other sources. My professional interest is to promote child abuse prevention and for the public to understand that sexual abuse is a serious concern and not one to be swept under the rug as Penn State and the Catholic Church have done. This is the reason that I took umbrage at Bill James excusing Paterno and why I started this thread.

 

Thank you for bearing with me.

[Youk Of The Nation]

No problem. I completely agree with you, anyways.

 

I also, at the risk of jinxing things, am impressed that this thread stayed perfectly civil with the exception of one comment. It's nice to see a serious discussion about a contreversial topic not devolve into mindless bickering and idiocy.

 

If this was a kindergarten class, I would give everyone a gold star. Of course, if this was a kindergarten class we'd all be too busy waiting to testify against Sandusky.

 

HEYOHHH

 

Okay, seriously folks...

[SoxSport]

I heard that radio broadcast, and --surprise--I think he was misquoted. They were trying to set him up as somebody who said Paterno did nothing wrong.

 

He said Paterno did the right thing in passing the issue to the higher ups. He was not the one to go to the cops. The athletic director and college president were the ones who covered it up. They should have reported the incident to the authorities.

 

If you follow this closely, it's apparent Paterno is being screwed over by the media--made out to be the brunt of the blame. Don't think so. It's the guys above him.

 

I'm not a big fan of Paterno and big TV money college football--which pays coaches millions. But after hearing James on the radio, it looks to me as though Paterno's getting too much blame in the media.

[Elktonnick]

I heard that radio broadcast, and --surprise--I think he was misquoted. They were trying to set him up as somebody who said Paterno did nothing wrong.

 

He said Paterno did the right thing in passing the issue to the higher ups. He was not the one to go to the cops. The athletic director and college president were the ones who covered it up. They should have reported the incident to the authorities.

 

If you follow this closely, it's apparent Paterno is being screwed over by the media--made out to be the brunt of the blame. Don't think so. It's the guys above him.

 

I'm not a big fan of Paterno and big TV money college football--which pays coaches millions. But after hearing James on the radio, it looks to me as though Paterno's getting too much blame in the media.

 

If you read the Freeh report, it is clear that Paterno lied to investigators and to the grand jury when he said he had never heard of the earlier investigation of Sandusky in 1998. There were emails between Paterno and the President about that investigation. In addition 2001 there are emails that Spanier et al thought about going to authorities but were dissuaded from doing so by Paterno.

 

It isn't the press who is screwing over Paterno but rather the evidence uncovered in an extensive investigation by the former Director of the FBI Louis Freeh.

 

I also think there will be other evidence that will be uncovered by the second grand jury and federal investigators as well as further evidence which will come out during subsequent trials and investigations which will implicate Paterno further. Paterno was more influencial at PSU then the President of the university.

[Palodios]

Did no one post this yet?

 

This afternoon, Red Sox Principal Owner John Henry and Executive Vice President/General Manager Ben Cherington spoke to Bill James regarding him making public his personal opinions on Joe Paterno.

 

In that call, Mr. James was informed that his comments in no way reflect the opinions or positions of the Red Sox; and, because he is perceived as a representative of the Red Sox, he was asked to refrain from any further public comments on this matter.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Exactly how it should have been handled, minus the flogging on the pitchers mound. Nothing wrong with flogging, though I don't really like the idea of any of the Red Sox execs being involved.

[2004 ALCS]

It's hard to know what James meant without context. He stated that he felt that Joe Pa should not have been the first person to go to the police but none of the text of what he's said stated that he did not feel as if Joe Pa should not have gone to the police. If he was suggesting the latter, there's no excuse for that.

[SoxSport]

If you read the Freeh report, it is clear that Paterno lied to investigators and to the grand jury when he said he had never heard of the earlier investigation of Sandusky in 1998. There were emails between Paterno and the President about that investigation. In addition 2001 there are emails that Spanier et al thought about going to authorities but were dissuaded from doing so by Paterno.

 

It isn't the press who is screwing over Paterno but rather the evidence uncovered in an extensive investigation by the former Director of the FBI Louis Freeh.

 

I also think there will be other evidence that will be uncovered by the second grand jury and federal investigators as well as further evidence which will come out during subsequent trials and investigations which will implicate Paterno further. Paterno was more influencial at PSU then the President of the university.

 

James read the Freeh report. I'm not a big fan of Freeh, either, who got himself into hot water in Washington doing dubious things as head of the FBI. I doubt that radio fellow who interviewed James read the Freeh report. Did you listen to the interview?

 

Who is "influential" has got nothing to do with responsibility. Paterno, in my view, is an egomaniac who was allowed to stay at the party for far too long. But the responsibility lies with the College President and the Head of Athletics at Penn State. Emails or no.

 

I do think James got suckered into talking about Paterno. He apparently is under contract with the Red Sox, and they did not take too kindly to his speaking his mind on a controversial subject unrelated to baseball.

[Elktonnick]

James read the Freeh report. I'm not a big fan of Freeh, either, who got himself into hot water in Washington doing dubious things as head of the FBI. I doubt that radio fellow who interviewed James read the Freeh report. Did you listen to the interview?

 

Who is "influential" has got nothing to do with responsibility. Paterno, in my view, is an egomaniac who was allowed to stay at the party for far too long. But the responsibility lies with the College President and the Head of Athletics at Penn State. Emails or no.

 

I do think James got suckered into talking about Paterno. He apparently is under contract with the Red Sox, and they did not take too kindly to his speaking his mind on a controversial subject unrelated to baseball.

 

Yes I did James's comments were silly and uninformed. While under Pennsylvannia law ultimate authority does lie with the President that doesn't exonerate Paterno. Since the emails make it clear that Paterno engaged in a criminal conspiracy to protect a serial rapist.

The emails from 1998 implicate Joe Pa in perjury before a grand jury when he denied that he knew of any prior incidents involving Sandusky.

 

If this had occurred in this state and virtually any other state in the Union (PA has the weakest child welfare laws in the country) Joe Pa would have already been indicted.