Red Sox Pitching Work Out Routines- Beckett

[IRON HORSE]

I first noticed that Josh Beckett has gained weight over the past couple years. It was first evident to me when I was in Detroit this past May, to see Beckett vs. Verlander. I was watching Beckett warm up in the bullpen and I noticed that he has a beer belly going on. This evenings game between the Sox and Yanks, I noticed the same thing with Beckett. I have been a fan of Beckett since he was with the Marlins but I just wanted to know if anyone else has noticed the same with Beckett? If Beckett had the same workout routine as Roy "Doc" Halladay then it would definitely help Beckett out with his ailing back problems that he has been plagued with. If Beckett lost some weight then maybe it would add some velocity to his pitching and increase his MLB career by a couple years. Any suggestions or thoughts on this?

 

Thanks

[Palodios]

Beckett is currently having the best season of his career. Why worry about it?

[wyo-sox]

If he is worried about his beer belly he probably stands next to Wakefield, Jenks, or Ortiz then suddenly feels better about himself.

[Dojji]

Don't be pricks guys. OP has a point. IF Beckett lost his unnecessary weight, it would help his health and help with back problems. Probably help him stay effective through the playoffs again too.

[Palodios]

How is that being a prick? He's having an amazing season. Some of the best pitchers in baseball have big guts, including AL East beasts Jon Lester and CC Sabathia. I'd simply prefer to think he knows what he's doing.

[AtWork]

Don't be pricks guys. OP has a point. IF Beckett lost his unnecessary weight' date=' it would help his health and help with back problems. Probably help him stay effective through the playoffs again too.[/quote']

 

Saying "why worry about it" is not being a prick. If they said Beckett's doing fine and anyone who complains is a pink hat, then they'd be acting like a prick.

[SoxSport]

Sabathia has lost weight too. Don't think the Yankees have haven't had him on a conditioning program.

 

Papi, by the weigh (couldn't resist that), has also lost some weight this year. Less of a tire showing. Quicker with the bat?

 

No doubt conditioning has a lot to do with performance. Injury frequency, as well.

And the older you get, the more important it is to keep your weight down.

 

But it's very hard to do that when you are making $15 million a year. Human nature.

 

Wonder if Beckett got his millions out of the stock market in time? LOL

 

PS. Beckett was one of those who was well-conditioned and ready to go in spring training.

Lester looks pretty good, too. The fat guys are Wakefield and Lackey. Jenks? Is he still on the roster?

Shouldn't be.

[wyo-sox]

Little humor..... Not meant to be a prick.

[Spitball]

I read an article in the Hardball Times that sited a study showing fat pitchers were more effective and had longer careers than slender ones. Sabbathia, Bartolo Colon, Mickey Lolich, David Wells, Sid Fernandez, Livan Hernandez, Rick Rueschel, etc. all were overweight, effective, and had long careers. I am not worried about Beckett gaining weight as he ages. Weights happens.

[SoxSport]

I read an article in the Hardball Times that sited a study showing fat pitchers were more effective and had longer careers than slender ones. Sabbathia' date=' Bartolo Colon, Mickey Lolich, David Wells, Sid Fernandez, Livan Hernandez, Rick Rueschel, etc. all were overweight, effective, and had long careers. I am not worried about Beckett gaining weight as he ages. Weights happens.[/quote']

 

Colon is taking a borderline drug which may be helping his stamina--and his performance.

 

CC has trimmed down, but he won't last beyond 35 unless he stays trimmed.

 

I don't know how fat or out of shape the other guys were. You can't throw a ballgame without conditioning. They all had conditioning programs. You just don't read about them.

[AtWork]

I read an article in the Hardball Times that sited a study showing fat pitchers were more effective and had longer careers than slender ones. Sabbathia' date=' Bartolo Colon, Mickey Lolich, David Wells, Sid Fernandez, Livan Hernandez, Rick Rueschel, etc. all were overweight, effective, and had long careers. I am not worried about Beckett gaining weight as he ages. Weights happens.[/quote']

 

I think that study used BMI. Which means it wouldn't have distinguished between a player with a lot of extra muscle and a player with a lot of extra fat.

[Spitball]

I think that study used BMI. Which means it wouldn't have distinguished between a player with a lot of extra muscle and a player with a lot of extra fat.

 

Size Matters by David Gassko from The Hardball Times

November 09, 2006

 

Wow, has it really been over a month? The last time we looked at the effect of player size, we discovered that short and fat pitchers tend to be better, and fat pitchers especially have an inherent advantage over other pitchers—not only playing better, but for longer. Today, we will finally, after three months of adventure and discovery, complete this series and conclude, does size matter?

 

Let me remind you of the parameters of the study. I looked at all consecutive pitcher seasons with at least 200 batters faced between 1946 and 2005, almost 10,000 such pairs in all. I calculated for each pitcher his run average, strikeout rate, walk rate, home run rate, and batting average on balls in play in each season, and adjusted for the league average. I also included his height, and the number of pounds above or below expectation (based on his height) he was, also adjusted for league average (as today’s pitchers are taller).

 

For each variable, I ran two separate regressions, first using height and that variable in the first year to try to predict that variable in the second year, and then using pounds overweight and that variable in the first year to try to predict that variable in the second year. The question was, would either of these measures of size have a significant predictive effect? The results follow.

[Spitball]

Colon is taking a borderline drug which may be helping his stamina--and his performance..

 

He was overweight and performing at a superior level for years before the allegations ever surfaced.

 

CC has trimmed down' date=' but he won't last beyond 35 unless he stays trimmed..[/quote']

 

He may have slimmed down, but it isn't real evident. He is still overweight. He has been a true workhorse through years at any weight. And, if he doesn't pitch into this mid 30s, it will be because he has pitched so many innings during his prime.

 

I don't know how fat or out of shape the other guys were. You can't throw a ballgame without conditioning. They all had conditioning programs. You just don't read about them.

 

Johnny Sain, possibly the greatest pitching coach of all-time, didn't believe in a strict conditioning program. Pitching is more about rote muscle memory created by the repetition of the sequences involved in a delivery. And some of Sain's pitchers started 40 games a year and threw more than 350 innings.

[SoxSport]

 

Johnny Sain, possibly the greatest pitching coach of all-time, didn't believe in a strict conditioning program. Pitching is more about rote muscle memory created by the repetition of the sequences involved in a delivery. And some of Sain's pitchers started 40 games a year and threw more than 350 innings.

 

Sain was an incredible pitching coach. A real pioneer.

He taught the strike zone just like Ted Williams. His thinking was location--hit the corners.

the places a hitter can't reach.

 

Sain would not believe in pitch counts. His thinking was probably more like Halladay's.

If you limit pitch counts on a pitcher, he won't be able to throw any more than that.

How many pitches a starter can throw is really determined by how sharp he is that day.

If a guy isn't sharp and is getting hit, he doesn't belong in there to give up 7 runs--even for 50 pitches.

 

Sain did not believe in heating up bullpen pitchers to throw just one inning. That's because of all the wear and tear required to warm up. He believed in more innings per appearance. It's the number of appearances that wear down a relief pitcher. That's the opposite of the Red Sox philosophy of one pitcher per inning, and probably why they have to turn over so much of their bullpen every year. There is no medical evidence that pitch counts help pitchers' durability--which makes it remarkable that pitch counts have been adopted by most teams.

 

if Sain was alive, I don't think he'd be happy with the way pitchers are handled these days. Pitching is an art, not a science. And there's no sense in trying to make it a science without proper justification.

[Palodios]

That's the opposite of the major league's philosophy of one pitcher per inning.

 

Fixed.

[Spitball]

Sain was an incredible pitching coach. A real pioneer.

He taught the strike zone just like Ted Williams. His thinking was location--hit the corners.

the places a hitter can't reach.

 

Sain would not believe in pitch counts. His thinking was probably more like Halladay's.

If you limit pitch counts on a pitcher, he won't be able to throw any more than that.

How many pitches a starter can throw is really determined by how sharp he is that day.

If a guy isn't sharp and is getting hit, he doesn't belong in there to give up 7 runs--even for 50 pitches.

 

Sain did not believe in heating up bullpen pitchers to throw just one inning. That's because of all the wear and tear required to warm up. He believed in more innings per appearance. It's the number of appearances that wear down a relief pitcher. That's the opposite of the Red Sox philosophy of one pitcher per inning, and probably why they have to turn over so much of their bullpen every year. There is no medical evidence that pitch counts help pitchers' durability--which makes it remarkable that pitch counts have been adopted by most teams.

 

if Sain was alive, I don't think he'd be happy with the way pitchers are handled these days. Pitching is an art, not a science. And there's no sense in trying to make it a science without proper justification.

 

I am fortunate to have befriended Johnny Sain back in the late '80s-early '90s. His daughter Sheryl and grandson lived here in Conway (he was originally from Arkansas), and he came from Chicago to visit them a couple of times a year. On one visit, he had just been to a card show with Warren Spahn, and he brought me several signed pictures, a cartoon of him engineering a train pulling all the twenty game winners he had produced as a coach, and an old Sporting News article. I also have some photographs of him with my oldest son who was probably in the third grade at the time.

 

I guess he took the time to visit with me because I enjoyed listening to his stories and philosophies. He really enjoyed talking about his 1965 Twins which were something like 15-1 versus Red Sox.

[SoxSport]

I am fortunate to have befriended Johnny Sain back in the late '80s-early '90s. His daughter Sheryl and grandson lived here in Conway (he was originally from Arkansas), and he came from Chicago to visit them a couple of times a year. On one visit, he had just been to a card show with Warren Spahn, and he brought me several signed pictures, a cartoon of him engineering a train pulling all the twenty game winners he had produced as a coach, and an old Sporting News article. I also have some photographs of him with my oldest son who was probably in the third grade at the time.

 

I guess he took the time to visit with me because I enjoyed listening to his stories and philosophies. He really enjoyed talking about his 1965 Twins which were something like 15-1 versus Red Sox.

 

That's just great. When I was growing up in Boston, Sain pitched for the Boston Braves.

He also pitched later, I believe, for Al Lopez' great White Sox teams of the 50s. Billy Pierce, Nellie Fox, Aparicio, Minoso, etc.

 

I recall about 25 years ago sitting at a racetrack with Kitty (Jim) Kaat all night talking about baseball--about the '67 final series between the Twins and the Sox which decided the pennant. Other than that I can't remember a damned thing we talked about.

I do recall Jim Palmer telling me he'd have thrown Earl Weaver off the mound if he ever tried to take him out of a game on pitch counts. Of course, Earl would have never done that--he was too smart a manager.

[Spitball]

That's just great. When I was growing up in Boston, Sain pitched for the Boston Braves.

He also pitched later, I believe, for Al Lopez' great White Sox teams of the 50s. Billy Pierce, Nellie Fox, Aparicio, Minoso, etc.

 

I recall about 25 years ago sitting at a racetrack with Kitty (Jim) Kaat all night talking about baseball--about the '67 final series between the Twins and the Sox which decided the pennant. Other than that I can't remember a damned thing we talked about.

I do recall Jim Palmer telling me he'd have thrown Earl Weaver off the mound if he ever tried to take him out of a game on pitch counts. Of course, Earl would have never done that--he was too smart a manager.

 

Johnny Sain was the most interesting baseball person I've ever met. He had excellent stories about his baseball experiences. Some of which I can't tell, especially about Billy Martin. He was a total jerk in Sain's opinion.

[BornToRun]

I'm not worried, most of his issues were with his back and he said he worked on getting his back in better shape.