5/23 @ Indians

[a700hitter]

This, folks, is what we call cherry picking.

 

The differential is bigger, but even if it is, Gonzales' OPS against lefties is still better than Crawford's overall OPS.

 

.779 is above league average overal.

 

.696 is Alex Cora.

But .779 is far below the career OPS splits against lefties for such superstars as Jonny Gomes (.883) and Cody Ross (.945). Should the Sox obtain one of them to platoon with AGon? That would be preposterous. It is also preposterous to say that Crawford should not have been signed because of his problems against lefties. I'm pretty sure Theo checked the splits before he cut the check.

[ORS]

And that can be accounted for by the fact that AGon is clearly the superior power hitter. AGon is the better offensive player' date=' and he makes more money to prove it. Who is better is not the issue. The issue is whether Crawford (a great offensive player in his own right) has platoon issues. [b']Facts are facts and the stats show that over his career Crawford's lefty-righty OPS split has a smaller differential than AGon's differential[/b].

Not by percentage.

 

Point being, I would expect a larger magnitude of drop from the player with the higher numbers. But, I think a true measure of platoon issues should be measured as a percentage drop. In other words, player A has a 1.000 OPS hitting LH vs RHP, and a .750 hitting against LHP, a 25% drop. For a .800 OPS LH hitter, a 25% drop puts him at .600. One dropped .250 points, the other .200, but they have the same platoon decline in performance.

[a700hitter]

That takes nothing away from the fact that Gonzales is an above average offensive performer vs lefties while Crawford is a AAAA hitter against them.

 

This is comparing apples to apples:

 

Gonzales OPS vs lefties: .779

 

Crawford OPS vs lefties: .696

The issue is not who is the better offensive player. Clearly AGon is hands down. Not only is this not an apples to apples comparison. It is not the issue at all. The issue is whether Crawford has platoon issues. You have raised this before he even signed. I did not bring AGon's stats into this to compare the two players. I brought AGon's stats into it to demonstrate that the lefty-righty split differential that Crawford has is indicative of nothing. You are straying from the point. This is not an AGon vs. Crawford comparison. There is no comparison between the two players in any aspect of their games.

[a700hitter]

Not by percentage.

 

Point being, I would expect a larger magnitude of drop from the player with the higher numbers. But, I think a true measure of platoon issues should be measured as a percentage drop. In other words, player A has a 1.000 OPS hitting LH, and a .750 hitting RH, a 25% drop. For a .800 OPS LH hitter, a 25% drop puts him at .600. One dropped .250 points, the other .200, but they have the same platoon decline in performance.

This is a legitimate point, however, the percentage drop off by AGon and Crawford is almost identical -- about 16%. Agon's drop off is slightly over 16% and Crawford's is about .4 less than 16%.

[a700hitter]

Statistically speaking, the old guy's ability to use statistics in an argument about statistics has been statistically under-rated.

[Dipre]

The issue is not who is the better offensive player. Clearly AGon is hands down. Not only is this not an apples to apples comparison. It is not the issue at all. The issue is whether Crawford has platoon issues. You have raised this before he even signed. I did not bring AGon's stats into this to compare the two players. I brought AGon's stats into it to demonstrate that the lefty-righty split differential that Crawford has is indicative of nothing. You are straying from the point. This is not an AGon vs. Crawford comparison. There is no comparison between the two players in any aspect of their games.

 

A) He does have platoon issues, no other way to slice it. When you produce below replacement level against lefties and at an All-Star level against righties, then you have a platoon problem. You're the one who mentioned Gonzales by the way.

 

B ) If Crawford's value comes mostly from "speed" as you have denoted, of what use is this "speed" when he can't get on base against lefties (.310 career OBP against them). He simply doesn't produce against lefties.

[a700hitter]

A) He does have platoon issues, no other way to slice it. When you produce below replacement level against lefties and at an All-Star level against righties, then you have a platoon problem. You're the one who mentioned Gonzales by the way.

 

B ) If Crawford's value comes mostly from "speed" as you have denoted, of what use is this "speed" when he can't get on base against lefties (.310 career OBP against them). He simply doesn't produce against lefties.

I didn't bring Agon into the argument to compare the two players, which you clearly did.

 

What is the percentage drop off in lefty-righty OPS splits for left handed batters? Does Crawford exceed the average drop off? What is the league average OPS for lefty batters vs. lefty pitchers? Those would be the stats that would support your argument, but I don't think you have produced either. Instead, you have tried to divert the issue into an AGon vs. Crawford comparison which it clearly is not.

[Dipre]

I didn't bring Agon into the argument to compare the two players, which you clearly did.

 

What is the percentage drop off in lefty-righty OPS splits for left handed batters? Does Crawford exceed the average drop off? What is the league average OPS for lefty batters vs. lefty pitchers? Those would be the stats that would support your argument, but I don't think you have produced either. Instead, you have tried to divert the issue into an AGon vs. Crawford comparison which it clearly is not.

 

Then let's use a Hardball times article which details the difference in OBP, SLG and OPS between LHH vs RHP and LHP from 2000 to 2006:

 

Left Vs Right: .275/ .356/ .452 .808 OPS

 

Left Vs Left: .253/ .328/ .396 .724 OPS

 

Difference: .022 BA/ .028 OBP/ .056 SLG% .084 OPS

 

And compare it to Crawford's career splits:

 

Left Vs Right: .306/ .345/ .466 .811 OPS

 

Left Vs Left: ..264/ .310/ .374 .684 OPS

 

Difference: .42 BA/ .35 OBP/ .92 SLG% .127 OPS

 

So when using a significant sample size of the average left handed hitter in baseball's platoon splits and comparing them to Crawford, he comes out being noticeably worst than the average platoon split in MLB. What now?

 

Oh, link to the article: http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-advantage-of-batting-left-handed/

[a700hitter]

Then let's use a Hardball times article which details the difference in OBP, SLG and OPS between LHH vs RHP and LHP from 2000 to 2006:

 

Left Vs Right: .275/ .356/ .452 .808 OPS

 

Left Vs Left: .253/ .328/ .396 .724 OPS

 

Difference: .022 BA/ .028 OBP/ .056 SLG% .084 OPS

 

And compare it to Crawford's career splits:

 

Left Vs Right: .306/ .345/ .466 .811 OPS

 

Left Vs Left: ..264/ .310/ .374 .684 OPS

 

Difference: .42 BA/ .35 OBP/ .92 SLG% .127 OPS

 

So when using a significant sample size of the average left handed hitter in baseball's platoon splits and comparing them to Crawford, he comes out being noticeably worst than the average platoon split in MLB. What now?

 

Oh, link to the article: http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-advantage-of-batting-left-handed/

Nice trickery, but this is not apples to apples. You are using 2000 to 2006 figures to compare to Crawford's career stats? I'm not buying. If you want and apples to apples comparison, check the AL OPS for LHB vs LHP year by year, or if you prefer check the MLB stats on this (don't limit it to AL). Each year, Crawford is at or above the average, with the exception of maybe one year. That's your apples to apples-- year by year-- the majors or just the AL vs. Crawford.

[Dipre]

Nice trickery' date=' but this is not apples to apples. You are using 2000 to 2006 figures to compare to Crawford's career stats? I'm not buying. If you want and apples to apples comparison, check the AL OPS for LHB vs LHP year by year, or if you prefer check the MLB stats on this (don't limit it to AL). Each year, Crawford is at or above the average, with the exception of maybe one year. That's your apples to apples-- year by year-- the majors or just the AL vs. Crawford.[/quote']

 

I call shenanigans. The fact that i used 2000-2006 statistics and the entire league as a basis for the analysis is not a bad thing, in fact, the bigger the sample size, the more likely it is to even itself out.

 

You're simply in denial of what is blatantly obvious: Crawford sucks against lefties. However, i will attempt to fulfill your desire and use other sample sizes.

 

Allow me to say though, that there is no ground for you to say that he has been "at or above average with the exception of one year" without anything to back it up while trying to disregard seven years of accumulated data. Just sayin'

[a700hitter]

I call shenanigans. The fact that i used 2000-2006 statistics and the entire league as a basis for the analysis is not a bad thing, in fact, the bigger the sample size, the more likely it is to even itself out.

 

You're simply in denial of what is blatantly obvious: Crawford sucks against lefties. However, i will attempt to fulfill your desire and use other sample sizes.

 

Allow me to say though, that there is no ground for you to say that he has been "at or above average with the exception of one year" without anything to back it up while trying to disregard seven years of accumulated data. Just sayin'

Not surprisingly, league OPS for LHB vs LHP varies from season to season. Comparing a player to the league or major league average year by year is the best apples to apples comparison of performance. A season's worth of stats for the whole league or the whole major leagues is a sufficiently large statistical sample. It is certainly much much larger than the 60 ABs that you used to liken Carl Crawford to Rey Ordonez. The year by year comparison of Crawford to the AL or MLB doesn't support your conclusion, because he is exceeds the league average in every year except one going back to 2005. Comparing his career stats to MLB cumulative stats from 2000 to 2006 is shenanigans, indeed, but I do appreciate the effort.

 

[Dipre]

Here you go, fine sir, a three-year outlook of the AL vs Crawford LHB vs LHP split comparison:

 

2008:

 

Crawford: .641 OPS

 

AL: .718 OPS

 

2009:

 

Crawford: .704 OPS

 

AL: .729 OPS

 

2010:

 

Crawford: .696 OPS

 

AL: .714 OPS

 

2011: (So far)

 

Crawford: .354 OPS

 

AL: .664 OPS

 

 

He had three decent seasons against LHP (05, 06 07)and peaked in 2007 with his .381 BABIP, but afterwards has had three seasons of horrible and below-average production against lefties, and he's running that same trail in 2011.

 

The numbers don't lie.

[Dipre]

Not surprisingly, league OPS for LHB vs LHP varies from season to season. Comparing a player to the league or major league average year by year is the best apples to apples comparison of performance. A season's worth of stats for the whole league or the whole major leagues is a sufficiently large statistical sample. It is certainly much much larger than the 60 ABs that you used to liken Carl Crawford to Rey Ordonez. The year by year comparison of Crawford to the AL or MLB doesn't support your conclusion, because he is exceeds the league average in every year except one going back to 2005. Comparing his career stats to MLB cumulative stats from 2000 to 2006 is shenanigans, indeed, but I do appreciate the effort.

 

 

No he doesn't. Look above.

[a700hitter]

No he doesn't. Look above.

Interesting. Those numbers are not what I thought they were. I'm in transit now and statistical research is too difficult on my Blackberry. I will check tonight to see if you have pulled anymore of your shenanigans.

 

[Dipre]

Interesting. Those numbers are not what I thought they were. I'm in transit now and statistical research is too difficult on my Blackberry. I will check tonight to see if you have pulled anymore of your shenanigans.

 

 

Do it.

 

Baseball reference.com

[a700hitter]

Here you go, fine sir, a three-year outlook of the AL vs Crawford LHB vs LHP split comparison:

 

2008:

 

Crawford: .641 OPS

 

AL: .718 OPS

 

2009:

 

Crawford: .704 OPS

 

AL: .729 OPS

 

2010:

 

Crawford: .696 OPS

 

AL: .714 OPS

 

2011: (So far)

 

Crawford: .354 OPS

 

AL: .664 OPS

 

 

He had three decent seasons against LHP (05, 06 07)and peaked in 2007 with his .381 BABIP, but afterwards has had three seasons of horrible and below-average production against lefties, and he's running that same trail in 2011.

 

The numbers don't lie.

 

Here are the stats that I have found for LHB vs. LHP. In the last 7 years, he exceeded the AL avg 4 times and the MLB avg 5 times.

 

Year	Crawford  AL     MLB
2004	.764	.725	.731
2005	.620	.696	.698
2006	.776	.717	.711
2007	.837	.729	.708
2008	.641	.718	.699
2009	.704	.729	.703
2010	.696	.669	.683