Battle For the Bullpen

[ORS]

So I think based on how the season has gone so far' date=' the bullpen is worth talking about again. It seems to me that while we had originally thought of it as a strength, it has turned into a major weakness, and the strange thing is... it really doesn't have to be a weakness. [i']Instead of worrying about success within the bullpen, the team is worried about depth in the bullpen[/i], and bullpen management has started to seriously hurt this team. They need to make some significant moves soon, because we can't continue to carry 4 relievers whose sole value is mop-up duty.

 

 

Bard had some early season issues, but he's a lock now with 0 ER in his last 10 appearances. Papelbon is baaack. Albers is looking like one of those brilliant offseason moves right now. 0.93 ERA, high strikeouts, lots of success so far. If he hasn't earned 7th inning duty yet, he will soon.

 

Wheeler-- 11.32 ERA. He has averaged about 21 ER a year for the last three years. So far this year, he has 13 ER. What the happened to this guy? Judging by the intermittent use of him, is this an injury? Jenks-- Same situation. Based on past performance, I don't mind waiting these guys out.....

 

But Okajima? He didn't have the stuff to get major league batters out last year, and doesn't look like he does this year either. Wakefield? He had an impressive game against Felix. Can he beat any team other than Seattle?

 

With Atchison/Aceves/Doubront/Bowdon/Hill all waiting in AAA, what is the point of carrying some of these guys? Atchison has allowed 1 ER in AAA all year, and showed he's a competent 6th inning guy last year. Aceves has dominated in the majors this year. What do these guys need to do to get some playing time?

Wheeler/Jenks to the DL. Hill/Atchison up.

 

Wheeler made a name for himself in Tampa. Look at his BABIP there. I lamented about this with extreme frustration in the game threads when he came in and was successful against the Sox the last couple of years. The writing was on the wall with him. Management, supposedly very sabermetric, ignored it and is paying for it.

 

EDIT: All that said, when he gets back from the DL, regression to some sort of mean suggests they'll get some quality innings out of him from this point forward. I mean, while I didn't expect a repeat of his Tampa performance, he's not this bad. He could be an asset in the BP down the stretch.

[Palodios]

Wheeler/Jenks to the DL. Hill/Atchison up.

 

Wheeler made a name for himself in Tampa. Look at his BABIP there. I lamented about this with extreme frustration in the game threads when he came in and was successful against the Sox the last couple of years. The writing was on the wall with him. Management, supposedly very sabermetric, ignored it and is paying for it.

 

I liked the move at the time, and with the information we were given, I would probably make the same move again. Based on the insane market conditions for relief this offseason, he looked like an absolute steal. An AL East pitcher with 3 consistent years for 3/1? Even if his ERA regressed closer to his FIP, he would still have been an incredibly serviceable option for middle innings. I want to give him time, but I agree with the Red Sox that phantom DLing was definitely the right move here.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I don't know where to post this but I don't think it deserves it's own thread so I'll just post it.

 

Wakefield will be pitching on friday for Dice-K.

[Palodios]

I don't know where to post this but I don't think it deserves it's own thread so I'll just post it.

 

Wakefield will be pitching on friday for Dice-K.

 

So let me get this straight... Because Dice-k threw 20 pitches on Wednesday, he should be replaced by Wakefield who threw 12 pitches on Wednesday? I get the feeling we should be expecting a dl trip for Lackey soon.

[Station 13]

So let me get this straight... Because Dice-k threw 20 pitches on Wednesday' date=' he should be replaced by Wakefield who threw 12 pitches on Wednesday? I get the feeling we should be expecting a dl trip for Lackey soon.[/quote']

 

Actually it was 2:30 AM Thursday.

 

His start is Sunday now. They continue to shuffle the rotation with Tek having to catch 3 starters. I wish it wouldn't get in the way.

 

Lackey's location today just horrible. He left everything middle up and they hit him. He isn't going down.

[FrostMo]

The reason its important to have someone like wake on the roster is for games like tomorrow's, when we're in a pinch for a starter. He may not be the best option ever but he's an experienced guy who can come in and start a game when needed.

[FrostMo]

Eating crow on that one.

[redsoxrules]

So I think based on how the season has gone so far' date=' the bullpen is worth talking about again. It seems to me that while we had originally thought of it as a strength, it has turned into a major weakness, and the strange thing is... it really doesn't have to be a weakness. [i']Instead of worrying about success within the bullpen, the team is worried about depth in the bullpen[/i], and bullpen management has started to seriously hurt this team. They need to make some significant moves soon, because we can't continue to carry 4 relievers whose sole value is mop-up duty.

 

 

Bard had some early season issues, but he's a lock now with 0 ER in his last 10 appearances. Papelbon is baaack. Albers is looking like one of those brilliant offseason moves right now. 0.93 ERA, high strikeouts, lots of success so far. If he hasn't earned 7th inning duty yet, he will soon.

 

Wheeler-- 11.32 ERA. He has averaged about 21 ER a year for the last three years. So far this year, he has 13 ER. What the happened to this guy? Judging by the intermittent use of him, is this an injury? Jenks-- Same situation. Based on past performance, I don't mind waiting these guys out.....

 

But Okajima? He didn't have the stuff to get major league batters out last year, and doesn't look like he does this year either. Wakefield? He had an impressive game against Felix. Can he beat any team other than Seattle?

 

With Atchison/Aceves/Doubront/Bowdon/Hill all waiting in AAA, what is the point of carrying some of these guys? Atchison has allowed 1 ER in AAA all year, and showed he's a competent 6th inning guy last year. Aceves has dominated in the majors this year. What do these guys need to do to get some playing time?

 

Aside from his first outing of the year VS the A's he has been very effective.

[a700hitter]

A lot of money was spent to get Jenks and Wheeler. Both have sucked right of the box and now both are on the DL by May 7th.

[Palodios]

Aside from his first outing of the year VS the A's he has been very effective.

 

So he's had good outings against Seattle and Baltimore. He'll get light up again by the end of the week.

[Station 13]

Contract year Papelbon been good so far.

[a700hitter]

Contract year Papelbon been good so far.

He's been a shutdown closer his entire career except for 2010.

[SoxSport]

The rain delay game yesterday was an example of bullpen overuse. How many pitchers? Different ones for innings 6,7,8 and 9. 4-0 win. Why did Buchholz go only 5 innings? Maybe the rain delay was a factor.

 

But why not 2 pitchers, a couple of innings apiece, for the last 4 innings? Because the modus operandi these days is one inning per pitcher. A full bullpen heatup to go one inning. And that's why bullpens wear out.

[Station 13]

The rain delay game yesterday was an example of bullpen overuse. How many pitchers? Different ones for innings 6,7,8 and 9. 4-0 win. Why did Buchholz go only 5 innings? Maybe the rain delay was a factor.

 

But why not 2 pitchers, a couple of innings apiece, for the last 4 innings? Because the modus operandi these days is one inning per pitcher. A full bullpen heatup to go one inning. And that's why bullpens wear out.

 

Give Buchholz some credit. He was back after 2+ hour. The Twins starter departed.

 

The long relief option Aceves was used to mopped up Wakefield disaster the previous night. If Wake was available, they wouldn't use him in a 2 run game at that point. What a waste of roster.

[a700hitter]

Good story about the Papelbons. Many who view him as selfish, because of his salary negotiations might be surprised at this level of generosity and compassion.

 

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/05/10/closer_excels_at_long_relief/?p1=News_links

 

Closer excels at long relief

By Kevin Cullen

Globe Columnist / May 10, 2011

 

Patrick Mahoney, a master’s student at the University of New Hampshire, was cycling home last October when a car knocked him off his bike. He hit his head and it was bad.

 

Don and Mary Mahoney were home in New Jersey when they got the call: Their son was in a coma. They dropped everything and headed up to Boston, where Pat was fighting for his life at Massachusetts General Hospital.

 

One of Mary’s oldest friends, Mary Mallon, heard about the accident and called her cousin, a priest in Mississippi. His name is the Rev. Tommy Conway, and Mary Mallon asked him if he remembered that couple from New Jersey he had met at a cookout years ago. Father Tommy has a memory like an elephant, and he described them head to toe.

 

“Well,’’ Mary Mallon said, “I want you to pray for their son, Patrick, because he’s in a bad way.’’

 

“Where is he in hospital?’’ Father Tommy asked.

 

“Boston,’’ Mary Mallon said.

 

“Where are his parents staying?’’ Father Tommy asked.

 

When he heard they were staying at a hotel, Father Tommy said, “That won’t do.’’ He hung up, and before he said a prayer for Patrick Mahoney he made a phone call for Don and Mary Mahoney. He called Jonathan Papelbon, the Red Sox closer, one of his parishioners at St. Thomas Aquinas in Hattiesburg. Father Tommy baptized Jonathan and Ashley Papelbon’s kids, and he asked a question to which he already knew the answer.

 

“It was the offseason, Jonathan and Ashley were here in Mississippi, and so I knew their place in Boston was empty,’’ Father Tommy Conway said. “As soon as I explained the situation to Jonathan, he said straight away, ‘They can use our place.’ I never got the question out. Jonathan beat me to it. Which, knowing him, is what I expected.’’

 

That was the easy part. The hard part was getting Don and Mary Mahoney to take up the offer.

 

“They were very reluctant; they felt they were imposing,’’ Father Tommy said. “But Jonathan and Ashley insisted. They didn’t want the Mahoneys to go broke taking care of their son. Jonathan and Ashley are parents, and they knew if they were in the same situation, they would want to be by their child’s side.’’

 

Mary Mahoney was overwhelmed.

 

“We’re strangers,’’ she said. “They didn’t know us. They didn’t know anything about us. But they trusted Father Tommy.’’

 

So the Mahoneys of Cranford, N.J., moved into the Papelbons’ spacious, gracious condo on Beacon Street.

 

“It was unbelievable,’’ Mary Mahoney said. “We could walk to Mass. General to see Pat every day. Then he was transferred to Spaulding Rehab, so we walked there every day. We were there for months. It’s a beautiful place.’’

 

By the time Opening Day rolled around last month, Patrick was ready to be transferred to a rehab facility in New Hampshire. Papelbon and his family were still on the road by the time the Mahoneys left. “We still haven’t met them face to face,’’ Mary Mahoney said. “Ashley stays in touch. She wants to know how Pat is doing.’’

 

The Mahoneys told me this story because they know of no other way to repay the Papelbons for their kindness to total strangers. “They wouldn’t want the publicity,’’ Father Tommy was saying. “I could talk to you the rest of the day about the people here in Mississippi that Jonathan and Ashley have helped. And they’d be mad at me for telling you that, so I won’t. They’ll be mad I’m talking to you about this, but there you go.’’

 

Pat Mahoney has made great progress. His doctors say it’s a miracle. But that’s not the only miracle. “We were always Mets fans,’’ Mary Mahoney said. “But I told Ashley, we’re really Red Sox fans now. And we really are. Ashley loved it.’’

 

Kevin Cullen is a Globe columnist. He can be reached at cullen@globe.com.

[Rdsxmbnt]

A lot of money was spent to get Jenks and Wheeler. Both have sucked right of the box and now both are on the DL by May 7th.

 

Obviously both have failed up to this point, but 'a lot of money'? Wheeler is on a 1yr contract at 3 mil and Jenks is 2/12. Im not ready to write either off after less than a quarter of the season

[a700hitter]

Obviously both have failed up to this point' date=' but 'a lot of money'? Wheeler is on a 1yr contract at 3 mil and Jenks is 2/12. Im not ready to write either off after less than a quarter of the season[/quote']That's a lot of money for bullpen arms. The return so far has sucked. Aceves has been the much better value at this point.

[Palodios]

That's a lot of money for bullpen arms. The return so far has sucked. Aceves has been the much better value at this point.

 

Bullpen development is a crap shoot. Look at Benoit and Soriano, it doesn't matter who you get, sometimes they fail. That's why the FO made sure to have a lot of options, so even though some don't work out, some do, and I think Aceves/Albers/Bard/Papelbon are going to be pretty strong.

[Station 13]

Bullpen development is a crap shoot. Look at Benoit and Soriano' date=' it doesn't matter who you get, sometimes they fail. That's why the FO made sure to have a lot of options, so even though some don't work out, some do, and I think Aceves/Albers/Bard/Papelbon are going to be pretty strong.[/quote']

 

We need our starters to pitch deep in games too. Bard, Albers won't hold up at this pace.

 

Right now only Beckett look locked in.

[a700hitter]

After Aceves outing on Monday, who gets cut when Wheeler and Jenks come back? I think it should be Wakefield and Oki

[Palodios]

After Aceves outing on Monday' date=' who gets cut when Wheeler and Jenks come back? I think it should be Wakefield and Oki[/quote']

 

It will be Atchison and Rich Hill. I do not like it, but that is what is going to happen.

[SoxFanForsyth]

It will be Atchison and Rich Hill. I do not like it' date=' but that is what is going to happen.[/quote']

 

No way we option Hill instead of Okajima. That is almost impossible.

 

Rich Hill vs Okajima

R.H.: 4.2 IP, 0.00 ERA, 0.64 WHIP, 1.9 BB/9, 11.6 K/9.

H.O.: 8.1 IP, 4.32 ERA, 1.44 WHIP, 5.4 BB/9, 6.5 K/9.

 

If we option Hill instead of Okajima, I'm going to be furious.

[Palodios]

No way we option Hill instead of Okajima. That is almost impossible.

 

Rich Hill vs Okajima

R.H.: 4.2 IP, 0.00 ERA, 0.64 WHIP, 1.9 BB/9, 11.6 K/9.

H.O.: 8.1 IP, 4.32 ERA, 1.44 WHIP, 5.4 BB/9, 6.5 K/9.

 

If we option Hill instead of Okajima, I'm going to be furious.

 

I don't like it, but that's what's going to happen.

[Station 13]

Hill doesn't have option. We'll lose him to waivers.

[Dipre]

Keep Hill please.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Hill doesn't have option. We'll lose him to waivers.

 

You're right. I forgot about that. That's why we left him in AAA so long to figure out his new delivery because once we brought him up, we couldn't send him back down without putting him on the wire.

 

Thank God!

 

What we NEED to do is to give Wakefield a nice little retirement package and option Okajima.

 

Papelbon - Bard - Jenks - Albers - Aceves - Hill - Wheeler. That bullpen will get it done.

[a700hitter]

It will be Atchison and Rich Hill. I do not like it' date=' but that is what is going to happen.[/quote']... and who goes when Lackey comes back?

[ORS]

... and who goes when Lackey comes back?

Hopefully Matsuzaka. Maybe they can rotate those two on/off the DL.

[Station 13]

... and who goes when Lackey comes back?

 

Okajima goes. He doesn't add anything to the team.

 

Hill has to stay with the team now.

[a700hitter]

Okajima goes. He doesn't add anything to the team.

 

Hill has to stay with the team now.

So we go with no lefties in the pen if Hill and Atchinson go now and Oki later? No lefties? I think they should keep Hill and send Wake into the sunset. Aceves gets the spot starts.