Who do you think is gonna steal more bases?

[yeszir]

Sorry guys....but let's get back on topic. Stolen bases.

[Flynnatic10]

Crawford. Not sure if Ellsbury is going to stay healthy.

[Emmz]

Nope. Not bent out of shape about that. Not at all actually. You know why? Probably be because I'm 26 with a wife that's hotter and smarter than you for sure. You have always had an attitude that you're better and smarter than anyone who doesn't agree with what you say' date=' and I'm just here to point out that just because your 17 and you have a huge ego, by no means, makes you better than anyone else, but it's cool. Whenever you mature a little bit, you'll realize that. Oh and by the way - doing what a boss tells you to do is part of being a good employee, and at least my boss doesn't tell me to clean the bathrooms and refill the soap.[/quote']

 

http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/3973096/LOL-Y-U-MAD-THO.jpg

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Omg. I'm saving that right now.

[Sox]

Crawford. Not sure if Ellsbury is going to stay healthy.

 

I don't know why people started labeling him as injury prone, he had broken ribs last year, prior to 2010, everybody was making him the next Rickey Henderson, now I'm not saying he is, but he was pretty damn good & he was never injured prior to the collision with Adrian Beltre.

[SoxSport]

The Red Sox are not a running team. Maybe that will change with two speedsters in the lineup.

Imagine, Ellsbury and Crawford back to back in the lineup can score a run just by walking and stealing.

Who will steal more bases? Maybe whoever plays more games, and where they bat in the lineup.

Whoever bats leadoff. You want both these guys at or near the top of the lineup where they can get the most at bats.

[Flynnatic10]

http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/3973096/LOL-Y-U-MAD-THO.jpg

 

Burned

[Flynnatic10]

I don't know why people started labeling him as injury prone' date=' he had broken ribs last year, prior to 2010, everybody was making him the next Rickey Henderson, now I'm not saying he is, but he was pretty damn good & he was never injured prior to the collision with Adrian Beltre.[/quote']

 

I'm not sure how he will bounce back from the injury.

[Sox]

I'm not sure how he will bounce back from the injury.

 

from what Francona is saying, he's healthy 100%.

[SCM33]

Why cant people just stick to the topic and not continue to wipe their asses with talksox threads?

 

You are a saint Yeszir, dont know how you do it or how you put up with it. The fact that you have any patience at all tells me you have more than I.

 

I think Ellsbury steals more bases than Crawford if healthy. He stole 70 a few years back, while Crawford has been sitting in the 40 range.

[Sox]

Why cant people just stick to the topic and not continue to wipe their asses with talksox threads?

 

You are a saint Yeszir, dont know how you do it or how you put up with it. The fact that you have any patience at all tells me you have more than I.

 

I think Ellsbury steals more bases than Crawford if healthy. He stole 70 a few years back, while Crawford has been sitting in the 40 range.

 

exactly, Ellsbury stole 50 in his rookie year, & that was his minimum, 70 steals was impressive.

[EXman369]

i give ells 55-65, crawford 35-45 just due to the fact that if hes hitting 3rd your not going to be running that often infront of gonzo

[SoxSport]

My hope is Ellsbury leads off and Crawford bats 3rd. Pedroia in between. If Ellsbury looks good in ST, I think he'll lead off. If not. he'll bat 9th, which I don't like because of fewer at bats. Scutaro would be better there.

 

If Ellsbury leads off and Crawford bats 3rd, Ellsbury will probably have more SB opportunities.

[Dojji]

It really depends on the lineup. As long as Ells leads off though, and PA are roughly even, it's advantage Jacoby.

 

And on a team with Kevin Youkilis, Dustin Pedroia, JD Drew, David Ortiz, and Adrian Gonzalez in no particular order, a middle of the order position IS NOT GOING TO GO to a speedster with a 15 HR bat. Crawford might have batted third for the Runnin' Rays, but he will not do so here. He bats first, second, seventh or eighth, assuming the catcher bats 9th which will probably happen. He's either a premium tablesetter, a great lower half of the order hitter to keep things going after the big thunder has passed, or a kinda average middle of the order hitter with a wierd production balance favoring triples over homers. Use him where he stands out.

 

I see 2 possibilities here:

 

Ells

Crawford

Youk

Gonzo

Pedroia

Drew

Ortiz

Lowrie/Scutaro

Salty/Tek

 

Or

 

Ells

Pedroia

Drew

Gonzo

Youk

Ortiz

Crawford

Lowrie/Scutaro

Salty/Tek

[Palodios]

I gave four possibilities of where Crawford/Ellsbury might hit, but 7th? I just don't see it. With Ortiz, A-gon, and Youk ahead of him, that'll really lower his value because none of those guys run very well.

[Dojji]

That's why I think our one-two will be Ellsbury and Crawford and Pedroia will move down in the order. He can bat in the lower middle of the order and do fine, he's mostly a hard contact guy rather than a real speed demon, and even guys like Gonzo and Ortiz can score from second on a base hit to right.

 

Heck if I didn't think Youk was about to become the best #3 hitter we've had since Ortiz dropped off the map I'd go ahead and put Pedroia there. He's good for it. But Youk is better, and will be batting third behind the two lefthanders.

[SoxFanForsyth]

It really depends on the lineup. As long as Ells leads off though, and PA are roughly even, it's advantage Jacoby.

 

And on a team with Kevin Youkilis, Dustin Pedroia, JD Drew, David Ortiz, and Adrian Gonzalez in no particular order, a middle of the order position IS NOT GOING TO GO to a speedster with a 15 HR bat. Crawford might have batted third for the Runnin' Rays, but he will not do so here. He bats first, second, seventh or eighth, assuming the catcher bats 9th which will probably happen. He's either a premium tablesetter, a great lower half of the order hitter to keep things going after the big thunder has passed, or a kinda average middle of the order hitter with a wierd production balance favoring triples over homers. Use him where he stands out.

 

I see 2 possibilities here:

 

Ells

Crawford

Youk

Gonzo

Pedroia

Drew

Ortiz

Lowrie/Scutaro

Salty/Tek

 

Or

 

Ells

Pedroia

Drew

Gonzo

Youk

Ortiz

Crawford

Lowrie/Scutaro

Salty/Tek

 

Wow. So much that I disagree with here.

 

First off - Crawford has 20 HR/100 RBI power when hitting behind Ells and Pedey. He's a prime player to hit in the 3 hole. By putting him in the 3 hole, you extend your line up so well. Ells, Pedey, and Craw will be the top 3, and knowing how much Francona likes LRLRLR, I would say it will go Ells - Pedey - Craw. Why wouldn't you want to have 2 #2 hitters in Pedey and Crawford setting the table for Gonzo Youk and Ortiz? Not to mention the fact that with Crawford and/or Ells on base in front of those 3, pitchers are going to be using the slide step, which creates mistakes, especially hanging breaking balls because their legs get in front of their arm.

 

Crawford is a prime #3 hitter, but if you want to look at it as a Pedroia/Crawford as 2A and 2B, it's fine, whatever makes you comfortable with it, but I can almost guarantee you that Craw is in the 3 slot.

 

The other stuff - Drew hitting 3rd in your 2nd line up is atrocious. He'll be the 7th or 8th man in any line up. Having him hit before Ortiz in the first line up is just as bad.

 

Also, Scutaro will more than likely hit 9th with Salty in the 8th slot. Basically a 2nd lead off. I could see Salty splitting up Ortiz and Drew in the 7th slot with Drew in the 8th slot.

[ORS]

What exactly has Ellsbury done to warrant getting more at-bats than someone like Kevin Youkilis, Adrian Gonzalez, or David Ortiz? You guys realize that is what's happening, over the course of a full season, if you stubbornly put him at the top because he's fast? He needs to be closer to the bottom of the order, IMO.

[SoxFanForsyth]

He sets the table and gets into scoring position. If we just went with the rule of "get Gonzo and Youk the most AB's possible", we would have a line up of:

 

Gonzo

Youk

Ortiz

Pedroia

Crawford

Drew

Ellsbury

Scutaro

Salty

[ORS]

No, because there is value in having Youk/Gonzo up with people on base. Ellsbury has been inconsistent in that regard. His speed is an asset, but that asset is inconsequential when he's not on base. Crawford has been in the .360 range over the last two full seasons, so he can be the busboy (table setter). Ellsbury can join him up there when/if he improves and gets on more consistently.

[Palodios]

Ellsbury did hit .300, and have an OBP of .355 in 2009. I'm not saying he'll get right back to that, but those are perfectly good numbers for a leadoff hitter. He's also a good candidate because unlike Crawford, he doesn't have much power, and makes a lot more sense hitting from a spot where fewer runners will be on base, ie after Scutaro/Salty. Also, unlike the majority of the roster, he hits just as well on either side.

[Dipre]

Ah, mates, i completely disagree with the notion that Crawford should bat third, since as traditional measures of lineup construction goes, you bat the best overall hitter on your team third, and statistical analysis would say that hitter is actually Pedroia. With Crawford's speed being such a valuable asset (but his career On-Base Percentage being .337, with only one year above .360, and not the last two as ORS suggested), it would be strongly beneficial to combine it with Ellsbury's at the top of the order.

 

Cheers, mates!

[ORS]

I didn't say they were both over .360, I said he's put up an OBP of around .360 over the last two years, ie, "combined".....larger sample sizes being more relevant and whatnot.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think Ellsbury is going to steal more bases. Stolen bases is a kids game and Ells is much younger. My guess is Crawford starts to hit for a little more power as his SBs start to tick off a little

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ah, mates, i completely disagree with the notion that Crawford should bat third, since as traditional measures of lineup construction goes, you bat the best overall hitter on your team third, and statistical analysis would say that hitter is actually Pedroia. With Crawford's speed being such a valuable asset (but his career On-Base Percentage being .337, with only one year above .360, and not the last two as ORS suggested), it would be strongly beneficial to combine it with Ellsbury's at the top of the order.

 

Cheers, mates!

 

Pedroia is just such a good 2 slot hitter, I would hate to move him from there.

 

Plus he hits a ton of doubles, so putting Craw behind him would make 2nd base available to swipe even on balls that Pedroia couldn't score on.

[Dojji]

That's exactly why he's the guy you can move down. Anyone remember the #8 hitter that was Bill Mueller? Pedroia's offensive skillset is similar to what he provided in '03, only he does it consistently. Meanwhile even with the obvious disadvantages of lefty lefty for two guys with fair platoon weaknesses, I can't resist the siren call of loading that much baserunning ability into the top 2 spots in the order.

 

BTW I agree with Dipre with only one exception -- I still hold to my fairly reasonable opinion that once you control for position (which you have to with a lineup construction) Youkilis is the guy who needs to bat third. I will shed not one misty tear if it's Pedroia though, because that signifies that this team is prepared to let its people run and let Pedroia drive them in with laser gap shots.

[Sox]

Ellsbury & Gonzalez hit lefties very well, so I think we should give them the same weight as switch hitters, so Crawford hitting 2nd isn't a bad idea, & Pedroia is a better run producer than Crawford, the good thing about Pedroia is you can bat him anywhere in the lineup & he'd do his job extremely well at it, whether its setting the table or producing runs, as long as he's not in the bottom of the order, his bat is more valuable at the top.

 

L Ellsbury

L Crawford

R Pedroia

L Gonzalez

R Youk

L Ortiz

S Salty

L Drew

R Scutaro

 

this lineup is immune to the LOOGY strategy, well kinda, there are no consecutive hitters that struggle against lefties.

[BSN07]

No' date=' because there is value in having Youk/Gonzo up with people on base. Ellsbury has been inconsistent in that regard. His speed is an asset, but that asset is inconsequential when he's not on base. Crawford has been in the .360 range over the last two full seasons, so he can be the busboy (table setter). Ellsbury can join him up there when/if he improves and gets on more consistently.[/quote']

 

Ellsbury's career OBP- .344

 

Crawford's- .337

 

Crawford has been closer to the .350-.360 range the last couple of years. So if you want to go off of that he gets on base 10-15 more times spread out over 1000 AB's. Not that big of a difference. Add in Crawfords platoon issues and Elsbury's ability to hit LHP and I believe it makes Ellsbury the better LO candidate.

[ORS]

I'm aware of the difference in their career averages. I'm more interested in what Crawford is doing now, ie the last couple of years, than what he did 5-6 years ago. Furthermore, given his inconsistency, I have little confidence in predicting what Ellsbury will do. Add to that the significant difference in power, and I start the year with Crawford leading off and Ellsbury flipping the order. If things change, so does my lineup.

[Sox]

you don't want a guy with some pop leading off, solo homeruns are practically useless.