Can we talk about Dice-k?

[Dojji]

The only start of his that's even made me that nervous recently was the KC start when it was clear that nothing at all was working for him -- and even in that start -- when it was clear that he could do nothing at all with his fastball -- he somehow managed to get throguh 4 2/3 and leave with the team in the game.

 

Honestly I get a worse feeling watching John Lackey pitch.

[BoSox21]

Considering the injuries and uneven workload he's had over the past two seasons, I'd expect inconsistency from him.

[Dipre]

The only start of his that's even made me that nervous recently was the KC start when it was clear that nothing at all was working for him -- and even in that start -- when it was clear that he could do nothing at all with his fastball -- he somehow managed to get throguh 4 2/3 and leave with the team in the game.

 

Honestly I get a worse feeling watching John Lackey pitch.

 

He allowed 8 Base on balls. That is downright absurd. Let's wait for some consistency for the guy before proclaiming him staff savior.

[Dojji]

It was rather absurdly obvious that he didn't even have his D stuff in that game and he still nearly salvaged a 5 inning performance. Honesly I consider that a sign of progress all by itself.

 

Considering he bounced back with 2 consecutive quality starts, I'd give him a pass, but that's just me.

[Dipre]

Take the rose-colored glasses off. Nothing good comes out of an outing where you allow eight base on balls. Dice-K's not getting paid to throw 4.2 innings.

 

Last night was a sign of progress, the Phillies game was a sign of progress, the Toronto game was a sign of progress. That outing was a disaster.

[Palodios]

Dice-k hasn't pitched a full season since 2008. Call it a coincidence, but look at the pitch counts of the games. Every time he has seen a big bump in pitch count, he's pitched poorly the following game. His first game he fell apart at the end of his outing, around 85 plus pitches (he only pitched 80 pitch simulations in ST). His third game, he pitched well, at 106 pitches-- the next game he gave up 7 ER to the yankees. The no hit bid, his pitch count jumped up to 112, and the following game he had no control and admitted to being sore. Now that his arm is used to the strain, he's been a very good #3 pitcher.

 

I know there are other factors, but this tells me that losing some spring training, and early parts of the season have thrown off his conditioning by a lot. Right now, his arm is getting used to pitching 110 pitches per game. Every time he's been physically ready to pitch (2007, 2008, and the end of 2009) he's been solid.

[Dipre]

He's thrown 100+ pitches in each of his past six outings. That includes the Toronto, Philly and Oakland one, as well as the KC and NYY ones. The only back to back outings where he hasn't thrown more than 100 pitches where the first two, and in both of them he got shelled.

[Palodios]

He's thrown 100+ pitches in each of his past six outings. That includes the Toronto' date=' Philly and Oakland one, as well as the KC and NYY ones. The only back to back outings where he hasn't thrown more than 100 pitches where the first two, and in both of them he got shelled.[/quote']

 

I think you misunderstand. I'm talking about the effects of increasing his pitch counts too quickly.

[Dipre]

I think you misunderstand. I'm talking about the effects of increasing his pitch counts too quickly.

 

He had an extended spring training though. I'm sticking to the theory that it's a combination of stuff and confidence. When he nibbles, bad things happen.

[Dojji]

Or you could be putting the cart before the horse.

 

Two things are happening simultaneously -- Daisuke nibbling and bad results. Isn't it equally likely that Daisuke was aware he didn't have his A stuff before we were and was being careful as a result?

[Palodios]

While I do agree that those are both factors, his back problems really threw off his spring training schedule.

[Dipre]

Or you could be putting the cart before the horse.

 

Two things are happening simultaneously -- Daisuke nibbling and bad results. Isn't it equally likely that Daisuke was aware he didn't have his A stuff before we were and was being careful as a result?

 

And how does that contradict what i initially said?

 

...Or it could be (and probably is) a stuff issue' date=' because if i recall correctly, one of the most impatient teams in MLB (Kansas) worked Dice-K for 8 (!) BB a couple starts back. When he has the good stuff and feels confident, he attacks the zone and outings like the one in Philly, Oakland or Toronto happen, when he doesn't have his good stuff and starts nibbling, then NYY, Baltimore, and Kansas City happen. [/quote']

[Palodios]

Any predictions for tonite? I think if he keeps his walks down, he'll go 7 strong innings. If not, he'll go 5 weak ones.

[Dojji]

I predict 6 IP, 3R, 2ER, 3BB, 5K and a win.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Dice to the DL huh? JFC

 

At least he told the Sox about his injury...

[Palodios]

15 day DL on an arm strain. Sounds tame. Best case scenario, he misses two starts.

[jacksonianmarch]

I never like the term "forearm strain." The majority of the time, it is actually an elbow injury and there is pain in the forearm.

[Spudboy]

He's an unreliable sack of s***.

[Dojji]

Call up Felix Doubront.

[YAZMAN]

Oil Can

[a700hitter]

I never like the term "forearm strain." The majority of the time' date=' it is actually an elbow injury and there is pain in the forearm.[/quote']I was at the game yesterday, and I didn't take particular note, but his warmup seemed to go okay. When he walked in from the bullpen, it seemed to be the normal walk in before the start. Then all of a sudden I noticed Atchinson warming up. There had been no announcement, but we were wondering why he was warming up.

[Dojji]

If a guy's hurt, he's hurt.

[Spudboy]

If a guy's hurt' date=' he's hurt.[/quote']

 

And if a guy is a sack of s*** , he's a sack of s***.

[a700hitter]

And if a guy is a sack of s*** ' date=' he's a sack of s***.[/quote']I guess the pampered princess syndrome is not limited to the USA. Dice K has definitely been afflicted with it.

[WhiskeyBreath]

And if a guy is a sack of s*** ' date=' he's a sack of s***.[/quote']

 

:thumbsup:

[Spudboy]

It's refreshing to see that some people are not blind.

[Palodios]

The forearm strain that landed Daisuke Matsuzaka on the disabled list isn't expected to be a serious injury according to manager Terry Francona.

"Daisuke feels great, which is good," Francona told reporters. "We certainly need to delve into it a little more. We’re cautiously optimistic about that, but we’ll get more information this morning." The Red Sox might have jumped the gun a little bit by placing Matsuzaka on the DL Saturday, but he hasn't exactly been the picture of health this season. Matsuzaka is 5-2 with a 4.59 ERA and a 1.30 WHIP. .

 

Francona sounds cryptic, but I get the feeling they probably are having difficulty getting information from Dice-k. Although, by that, the best case scenario of him missing only one more start is about right.

[Dojji]

It's hard to get concrete information about any injury quickly without dragging out an MRI machine or something. It's entirely possible that all either camp knows is that he's got forearm pain and maybe a preliminary diagnosis.

[Peter Backgammons]

Cautious optimism about Dice K probably means that he'll be out for the remainder of this season and the next.

[Spudboy]

Cautious optimism about Dice K probably means that he'll be out for the remainder of this season and the next.