V-Mart hopes to avoid FA Market

[BSN07]

"I don't want to be jumping around, I don’t want to go somewhere else, First, I didn’t want to go out of the Guardians organization. Then I'm out, and now I'm here. I came to the place where a lot of players dream to come and a lot of players wish to play here in Boston. So I'm here, I do really want to stay here and hopefully end my career in Boston."

 

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?&articleid=1232955

 

Me likes to hear this

 

Hopefully the FO feels the same way. I think a 4 year deal with maybe an option would be enough for him to re-up with the team.

[das11209]

I have mixed emotions here. He will be the most sought out catcher FA after Mauer signs with Minny. Question is if he will remain a catcher. As a catcher he is very valuable - but as a DH or 1B - he is not even close as valuable. Personally even though it will be risky - I would like to see if he can be a servicable catcher this season. If there is a priority - I want the FA to lock up Becket first.

[BSN07]

I think he still worth having around even if he is 1B/DHing.

[example1]

Yeah, I've always liked Martinez, even when he was with CLE. He sounds like he might be open to a reasonable deal for a number of years and I think the Sox ought to take advantage.

 

I would be just fine with them making a 4 year/$50m offer. If he really wants to avoid FA that's a nice deal. If not then they might get him for less at the end of the season, or he could end up elsewhere.

[TheMino007]

V-Mart is an interesting situation. If we decide to keep him as a catcher for the future, then the Sox need to go after him. Who knows if Joe Mauer will be on the market or if Wagner or Exposito pan out. Problem is, how much longer is V-Mart a viable option at catcher? As a catcher he is one of the best offensive threats, but if you move him to 1st base he loses a lot of his offensive value. I would give V-Mart a 3 year deal, but anything longer than that is pushing it.

[msubulldogs21]

He will be the most sought out catcher FA after Mauer signs with Minny.

 

Why is Mauer re-signing with the Twins such a given? Granted if they don't resign him I think they should be contracted, but I don't think this is a gauranteed thing here.

 

As a catcher he is very valuable - but as a DH or 1B - he is not even close as valuable.

 

Regardless of what position he plays he is a very good hitter and I want to keep him around.

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox have been smart here in waiting. VMart needs to prove that he can be a full time catcher. As a full time catcher, he's very valuable. As a 1b, he isnt. Think about it this way. As a catcher, McCann, Posada, Mauer, VMart. He's top 4 or 5 in OPS. As a 1b, he's barely better than Adam LaRoche.

[Dipre]

If you put it that way, waiting is the smart thing to do indeed.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have a feeling VMart is in Boston through 2010 then finds another club. He isnt a good catcher, he isnt durable when he catches and his bat doesnt carry as well to another position. I think the sox go deeper into their new defense oriented organizational philosophy next yr. They'll let VMart go, take the 2 draft picks and watch him sign a 4 yr deal for a team that sees him play 80% of his games as a DH or a 1b over the life of the new contract. They'll be in on Mauer if he hits FA, but it sounds like that may be unreasonable. They'll let Papi go and sign another all offense basher to solidify that spot. They'll take the offensive upgrade from that move and counter it with the offensive downgrade of carrying a primarily defensive catcher. A guy like Gerald Laird. Is a master in calling games and at the craft of catching, leaving lots to be desired offensively.

[Imperial59]

I have a feeling VMart is in Boston through 2010 then finds another club. He isnt a good catcher' date=' he isnt durable when he catches and his bat doesnt carry as well to another position.[/quote']

 

He isn't durable when he catches? He's played 140+ games six of the last seven years, primarily as a catcher. I'm not sure what you meant by that.

[jacksonianmarch]

In 2008, he missed a lot of time due to an elbow injury, only catching 55 games.

In 2009, after said elbow injury, he started only 82 times at catcher, even though he started a total of 148 games.

 

Prior to 2008, he was a very durable catcher. But after the injury and now heading into his 30s as a catcher, he's probably due for a position change. Especially since defensively, he is not very strong. This is why I think the sox arent talking to him about an extension. They are giving him an audition as a full time catcher in 2010. If he handles it admirably, then they'll talk to him about an extension. If he needs a bunch of time at DH or 1b, then they let him go since he'll jam up the works.

[Imperial59]

In 2008, he missed a lot of time due to an elbow injury, only catching 55 games.

In 2009, after said elbow injury, he started only 82 times at catcher, even though he started a total of 148 games.

 

Prior to 2008, he was a very durable catcher. But after the injury and now heading into his 30s as a catcher, he's probably due for a position change. Especially since defensively, he is not very strong. This is why I think the sox arent talking to him about an extension. They are giving him an audition as a full time catcher in 2010. If he handles it admirably, then they'll talk to him about an extension. If he needs a bunch of time at DH or 1b, then they let him go since he'll jam up the works.

 

So he was injured one year (2008) and you're blowing it out of proportion? I agree he's due for regression and he's not the best defensive catcher (although he's not as bad as Posada). But it's a stretch to say he has durability issues.

[CanadianSox]

V-Mart is an interesting situation. If we decide to keep him as a catcher for the future' date=' then the Sox need to go after him. Who knows if Joe Mauer will be on the market or if Wagner or Exposito pan out. Problem is, how much longer is V-Mart a viable option at catcher? As a catcher he is one of the best offensive threats, but if you move him to 1st base he loses a lot of his offensive value. I would give V-Mart a 3 year deal, but anything longer than that is pushing it.[/quote']

 

I agree but I don't know about offering him a 3 year deal right now. We might want to wait it out a little into the season and see what happens first.

[Dipre]

Jacko's stance is not unreasonable. What he means by durability issues is that it's been documented that whenever V-Mart catches 110 games or more, the grind starts wearing on his offense, and he's an offense minded catcher. I don't think the issue is a bit overblown by our resident Super-Yankee fan, but it's something that we had heard before.

[jacksonianmarch]

Imp, you are way too defensive. He was injured one yr, yes, and it was a significant elbow injury which caused him to miss a lot of time. He eventually had surgery on that arm and came back a bit weaker. The problem is, he was a marginal defensive catcher to begin with, and now he's less than marginal. The other issue is that he wears down like Dipre said over the course of a season and as a catcher, that gets accelerated. Plus, he's now 31 yrs old which really is about the time that most full time catchers start to show some wear and tear. Also, his arm has taken a major step back. I know you use the Posada reference, but Posada had a lower PB/game ratio than VMart and threw out 28% of base-stealers in 2009, while VMart threw out only 14%. Plus, Posada's career mark is 28% while VMart's is 24%. From a catcher's defensive metric standpoint, you really can't go that much farther than that in evaluating them. They both are slow back there, but Posada's arm sets the two apart, even after having his shoulder reconstructed.

 

I am glad Dipre isnt having trouble seeing the truth here. VMart is getting auditioned. If his arm is back to pre-2008 levels and he shows he doesnt get worn down out there, then they will resign him. If he doesnt and needs a bunch of time at DH or at 1b, then he isnt useful since the sox have a major hard on for Adrian Gonzalez.

[TheMino007]

Jacko's stance is not unreasonable. What he means by durability issues is that it's been documented that whenever V-Mart catches 110 games or more' date=' the grind starts wearing on his offense, and he's an offense minded catcher. I don't think the issue is a bit overblown by our resident Super-Yankee fan, but it's something that we had heard before.[/quote']

 

That is a great point that can even apply to this season. How many games (110) can V-Mart catch before playing behind the plate starts to become detrimental to his offensive abilities? Lets be honest, he's getting paid to be an offensive catcher/player, not a defensive one. His bat is still good enough to have him DH/play first for 40 games. But like I said, as a full time 1st base/DH, he is middle of the pack in terms of production

[jacksonianmarch]

Exactly why I think he leaves after 2010. For 1.5 seasons you get elite offensive production out of the catcher's spot and dont have to commit big money to him past his prime seasons. Then, you get the two draft picks and move on down the line.

[Palodios]

The problem with letting him go in 2010, is finding a decent offensive replacement for 2011. Drew/Scutaro/Cameron aren't getting any younger, and they'd also be replacing Ortiz/Beltre/VMart. Unless Mauer gets out of Minny, or if the Sox can somehow get one or two very strong bats for 3rd/DH, the offense is only going down without Vmart.

[Imperial59]

Imp' date=' you are way too defensive. He was injured one yr, yes, and it was a significant elbow injury which caused him to miss a lot of time. He eventually had surgery on that arm and came back a bit weaker.[/quote']

 

Didn't Posada miss a lot of time due to a shoulder injury? Why is your opinion about him so different, other than the fact that he wears pinstripes?

 

The problem is' date=' he was a marginal defensive catcher to begin with, and now he's less than marginal. The other issue is that he wears down like Dipre said over the course of a season and as a catcher, that gets accelerated. Plus, he's now 31 yrs old which really is about the time that most full time catchers start to show some wear and tear. Also, his arm has taken a major step back. I know you use the Posada reference, but Posada had a lower PB/game ratio than VMart and threw out 28% of base-stealers in 2009, while VMart threw out only 14%. Plus, Posada's career mark is 28% while VMart's is 24%. From a catcher's defensive metric standpoint, you really can't go that much farther than that in evaluating them. They both are slow back there, but Posada's arm sets the two apart, even after having his shoulder reconstructed.[/quote']

 

You're kidding yourself if you think throwing out runners is the only aspect of playing defense. As you know, Bill James had Posada as the worst defensive catcher in baseball last year. I would just appreciate a little more objectivity in how you talk about V-Mart compared to Posada.l

[Imperial59]

Jacko's stance is not unreasonable. What he means by durability issues is that it's been documented that whenever V-Mart catches 110 games or more' date=' the grind starts wearing on his offense, and he's an offense minded catcher. I don't think the issue is a bit overblown by our resident Super-Yankee fan, but it's something that we had heard before.[/quote']

 

V-Mart started over 110 games at catcher every year from 2004 until 2008, when he had an injury. And those were some of the best offensive years of his career.

[Imperial59]

I am glad Dipre isnt having trouble seeing the truth here. VMart is getting auditioned. If his arm is back to pre-2008 levels and he shows he doesnt get worn down out there' date=' then they will resign him. If he doesnt and needs a bunch of time at DH or at 1b, then he isnt useful since the sox have a major hard on for Adrian Gonzalez.[/quote']

 

You're a trip Jacko. I love how when one poster agrees with your criticisms of a Red Sox player, they "see the truth"

[Palodios]

You're a trip Jacko. I love how when one poster agrees with your criticisms of a Red Sox player' date=' they "see the truth" [/quote']

 

In this case he's absolutely right. As a catcher, he's a top tier player. As a first basemen/dh, he's not. If he can play catcher for the sox, he's worth the money, if not, he isn't, its as simple as that.

[Imperial59]

In this case he's absolutely right. As a catcher' date=' he's a top tier player. As a first basemen/dh, he's not. If he can play catcher for the sox, he's worth the money, if not, he isn't, its as simple as that.[/quote']

 

I agree with you completely, but that's not at all the case that Jacko is making. Accodring to Jacko, V-Mart can only play 100 or so games at catcher without getting hurt.

[jacksonianmarch]

You really arent very good at reading, are you? I said that VMart's injury in 2008 limited him significantly, and caused the Guardians and the Red Sox to cut into his playing time at catcher. Plus, his splits between Catcher and DH/1B show that the tools of ignorance cut into his offensive production. Add to that the fact that he isnt a good catcher to begin with, and the likelihood is that he will probably not catch more than 100 games this yr. The last time he caught 100 games was 2007, he's 31, he's a catchers whose defense is pretty pitiful, and he is coming off an arm injury which seemed to have a lingering effect on his CS%. I dont think you need to be a rocket scientist to figure this out

[Dipre]

I can't find the link now, but i remember reading somewhere that after the V-Mart trade was completed, the Guardians GM advised Theo not to let V-Mart catch much more than 110 games to keep his offense in top shape.

[BSN07]

I could deal with Martinez catching a hundred games and splitting 50 at 1B/DH year in and year out. Especially if Wagner/Exposito show any promise at the ML level. It be a great way to break them in.

 

I don't care how much money they have to spend to sign him. I am more concerned with the years. If they can get him on a 3 yr+ 1 option, or a 4 yr deal I think they should do it.

[BSN07]

I can't find the link now' date=' but i remember reading somewhere that after the V-Mart trade was completed, the Guardians GM advised Theo not to let V-Mart catch much more than 110 games to keep his offense in top shape.[/quote']

 

I remember something about that.

 

Besides having an elite bat at Catcher for 100-110 games is is fine by me. I don't mind Tek/Prospect getting 50-60 games in behind the plate.

[Dipre]

This year, they can very much exploit the fact that Varitek can still hit LHP. Played right, Tek's the best offensive backup C in the majors.

[BSN07]

This year' date=' they can very much exploit the fact that Varitek can still hit LHP. Played right, Tek's the best offensive backup C in the majors.[/quote']

 

Very true.

 

And in those games I think it be best to DH Matinez. Making the lineup RHH heavy and giving Papi days off against some of the tougher LHP's.

[Dipre]

Very true.

 

And in those games I think it be best to DH Matinez. Making the lineup RHH heavy and giving Papi days off against some of the tougher LHP's.

 

Ah, good point.

 

Papi's .716 OPS vs LHP should indicate a cut in playing time against lefties.