Yankees sign Nick Johnson to 1 yr deal

[yankees228]

lol the "inevitable" comparison that you just "might as well" start... trolling at it's finest

 

The Yankees have the better offense, there's no debating that. But the Red Sox have the better rotation and defense.

 

lol, I'm not saying you're wrong, but how many of your posts have been in an attempt to put down something that Jacko said?

[Imperial59]

Ahhh, Nick Johnson the Rocco Baldelli of infielders. Seriously though, if he can stay healthy, he should be a great #2 hitter next year.They're still losing some offense from Matsui though.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's not bias. I didn't say you said Dice should improve. I did. Because he should.

 

When we talk about which couple of starters would be more of a "sure thing" we're talking about the ability to produce at the higher level, anyone except you would probably take Buch-Dice-K over Joba and Hughes.

 

It's that simple, even with all of the issues the four of them face, it's fairly easy to see that a full productive season out of the Boston pair is more likely than the Yankee pair.

 

Where's the bias again?

 

This is not meant to be a dismissive or inflammatory post, he's entitled to his opinion, but seriously........

 

If you told me that all 4 players would be totally healthy then I would take Buch and DiceK. I agree with you. I have already said that DiceK is the best pitcher of the 4, his only question was health. And it is a really tough question to answer since he's slight framed and has had a barking shoulder for 2 yrs now.

[Dipre]

How do they have the better defense? Enlighten me. NY was one of the best defenses in baseball last yr' date=' and all they did was see ARod get healthy and add a solid starting CFer. The only argument you have there is if the age suddenly catches up to all of the defenders in one yr. Other than that, you dont have one.[/quote']

 

So you think father time couldn't catch up to both Jeter and A-Rod?

 

Also, if the Sox play the OF like they should (Ellsbury in LF) then the argument can be made and won that the Sox have a better overall defense. It all depends on who plays 1st and 3rd.

[Dipre]

If you told me that all 4 players would be totally healthy then I would take Buch and DiceK. I agree with you. I have already said that DiceK is the best pitcher of the 4' date=' his only question was health. And it is a really tough question to answer since he's slight framed and has had a barking shoulder for 2 yrs now.[/quote']

 

Last year, Dice-K showed up out-of-shape after pitching in the WBC. And i believe calling it a "Barking shoulder" is a bit of an overstatement. Don't you?

[jacksonianmarch]

Ahhh' date=' Nick Johnson the Rocco Baldelli of infielders. Seriously though, if he can stay healthy, he should be a great #2 hitter next year.They're still losing some offense from Matsui though.[/quote']

 

We lose power, although not as much as you would think. Granderson and Johnson combined for 38 homers last yr in pitchers parks. Damon and Matsui combined for 52 homers with the overwhelming majority coming in Yankee Stadium.

[jacksonianmarch]

Last year' date=' Dice-K showed up out-of-shape after pitching in the WBC. And i believe calling it a "Barking shoulder" is a bit of an overstatement. Don't you?[/quote']

 

He missed 4 months of the season with shoulder "tiredness". How else should I interpret it?

[Emmz]

So you think father time couldn't catch up to both Jeter and A-Rod?

 

Also, if the Sox play the OF like they should (Ellsbury in LF) then the argument can be made and won that the Sox have a better overall defense. It all depends on who plays 1st and 3rd.

 

BINGO.

[jacksonianmarch]

So you think father time couldn't catch up to both Jeter and A-Rod?

 

Also, if the Sox play the OF like they should (Ellsbury in LF) then the argument can be made and won that the Sox have a better overall defense. It all depends on who plays 1st and 3rd.

 

I am sure it will eventually. I doubt it happens all at once in one season after both have incredibly productive yrs on both ends of the game

[Dipre]

I am sure it will eventually. I doubt it happens all at once in one season after both have incredibly productive yrs on both ends of the game

 

Even if father time doesn't catch up with them, if the Sox sign Beltre and play Cameron in CF, they're the better defensive squad. No ifs or buts about it.

[Emmz]

But what if we make the trade for Gonzales? I think that makes our lineup probably as good or slightly better, but maybe takes a little away from our defense. Not sure though, I haven't looked into who would replace Ellsbury.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'd agree with that. But they wont be playing Cameron in CF and Theo isnt about to throw 3-4 yrs to Beltre at double digit millions per. Beltre will get it from someone. Weak FA crops lead to bad deals.

[jacksonianmarch]

But what if we make the trade for Gonzales? I think that makes our lineup probably as good or slightly better' date=' but maybe takes a little away from our defense. Not sure though, I haven't looked into who would replace Ellsbury.[/quote']

 

Hermida would step into LF and he's a butcher

[jacksonianmarch]

well, that actually turned into productive dialogue and a good back and forth. Goodnight y'all.

[Spudboy]

Dice-K is slight of build?

 

He's not David Wells.

 

But not Kasey Fossum either.

 

He is a question mark though.

[Dipre]

I'd more easily put my money on Dice-K's health than on Joba's.

[example1]

He missed 4 months of the season with shoulder "tiredness". How else should I interpret it?

 

You should interpret that the Sox FO sat his ass down in extended spring training because he showed up out of shape despite their training requests. He was bad, his pitches were flat and lacked bite.

 

When he came back his stuff looked noticably better and so did he. He should be motivaed to prove he's better than he's been.

 

Fortunately the Red Sox were a deep enough team to be able to absorb the loss without it hurting their ability to get to the post-season.

[Imperial59]

How do they have the better defense? Enlighten me. NY was one of the best defenses in baseball last yr' date=' and all they did was see ARod get healthy and add a solid starting CFer. The only argument you have there is if the age suddenly catches up to all of the defenders in one yr. Other than that, you dont have one.[/quote']

 

You tend to use stats when they back up your point, so I'm not surprised you left them out of this argument.

 

1B

Team 1: -4.1 UZR/150 last year (1.7 career)

Team 2: 11.1 UZR/150 last year (4.4 career)

 

2B

Team 1: -5.2 UZR/150 last year (-5.4 career)

Team 2: 10.6 UZR/150 last year (7.4 career)

 

SS

Team 1: 8.4 UZR/150 last year (-4.6 career)

Team 2: 1.0 UZR/150 last year (-2.9 career)

 

3B

Team 1: -11.7 UZR/150 last year (-2.2 career)

Team 2: -5.4 UZR/150 last year (8.6 career)

 

LF

Team 1: -19.2 UZR/150 last year (4.0 career)

Team 2: Did not play LF last year (21.8 career in limited time)

 

CF

Team 1: 1.6 UZR/150 last year (4.9 career)

Team 2: 10.3 UZR/150 last year (5.7 career)

 

RF

Team 1: -1.2 UZR/150 last year (6.0 career)

Team 2: 15.7 UZR/150 last year (6.0 career)

 

When you take out the names to eliminate bias, guess which team has a decisive advantage defensively at 5 out of 7 positions?

 

Consider yourself enlightened.

[Meh]

The inevitable comparison, might as well start it. Strictly offense now...

 

1. Jeter vs Ellsbury- Jeter, no question

2. Johnson vs Pedroia- Push- Pedroia offered a bit more power in 2009, but Johnson crushed him in OBP, which as a 2 hitter is probably more important than SLG

3. Teixeira vs Martinez- Tex, no question

4. Rodriguez vs Youkilis- Push. Youk had a slightly better yr in 2009, but ARod has a clean bill of health now and after his initial adjustment period (which was his ST since he was hurt), nobody was better

5. Posada vs Ortiz- Push. Ortiz sucked in the first 2 months while Posada was as consistent as they come. Career, Ortiz is the better hitter and both are due to decline as age becomes a factor.

6. Granderson vs Drew- Drew is the better OBP machine, Granderson was the better power hitter last season. Granderson brings more to the table in terms of overall game, but a .900OPS cannot be ignored

7. Swisher vs Cameron- Swisher has it. Both hit for low averages, both his 20+ homers and both K a ton. Swisher is more versatile as a switch hitter and hits for a little more power and walks a little more.

8. Cano vs Kotchmann- Cano by a lot

9. Cabrera vs Scutaro- Push. The battle for the tallest midget is on. Neither should be expected to be offensive forces. Scutaro comes off the better offensive yr, but Cabrera is 9 yrs younger and has more offensive potential. Regardless, their questionmarks offset each other to a push

 

player vs player is a horrible way to break down something. I thought this died out in 2003, it really just makes you look silly when you do these types of things as theres just so much more that goes into it. Anyone with the slightiest baseball knowledge can see the Yankees rape the Red Sox with their bats so theres no need for this and if someone needs you to show them that the Yankees lineup is better.....then they just aren't even worth talking to. If the Red Sox add A-Gon and Beltre/Holliday and it closes the gap and things can be reopened for discussion.

 

As for NJ, I love the move. Before the off season started I had four targets, Granderson, Chapman, NJ and Conor Jackson. I would sub Jackson out for Holliday(depending on the price), DeJesus and Nady(personal fav)

[26 to 6]

I realize this thread isn't about Nick Johnson anymore, but it should be, so lets talk about him. While I like what Johnson can bring to the table offensively, I'm in agreement with Gom. Johnson, essentially, is just going to be a DH. If he could play outfield, this would make more sense to me, but he can't. They could have brought back Matsui in the same role, at only a slightly higher price.

 

The only way this would make sense to me is if they approached Matsui about coming back, but not only playing about 100 games, or so, and he declined. Then they moved onto Johnson. However, if they plan on making Johnson their DH for almost all the games, then this makes no sense to me.

I agree with you and Gom on this one. As much as I prefer Johnson at $5.5m over Damon at whatever ridiculous amount he's asking now, I would have much rather had matsui at $6.5m than Johnson at $5.5m.

 

When we talk about which couple of starters would be more of a "sure thing" we're talking about the ability to produce at the higher level, anyone except you would probably take Buch-Dice-K over Joba and Hughes.

In all of this Daisuke/Buch & Joba/Hughes talk I honestly think you guys are underestimating the abilities of Joba and Hughes. I'm not gonna go out and say that they'll be better than Dice-K and Buchholz, nor will I say that Buchholz and Dice-K will be better than Joba and Hughes. All 4 have the potential and ability to be very good this year. But it's hard to factor in the other variables involved here, such as health and endurance, among others. My question becomes, if the Sox do acquire Adrian Gonzalez, which will most likely be at the expense of Buchholz and force Wakefield into the rotation, what back end would you consider more of a "sure thing" (not that I condiser any of them a SURE thing). I honestly feel that Joba/Hughes is more likely to succeed than Dice-K/Wakefield. It's hard to determine though. I just wanted to gather everyone else opinion on that matter. I have a feeling what the consensus will be though (health concerns and age over youth and "stuff," or to be fair experience over inexperience). I have to disagree though, and part of my opinion might be due to biased, but I don't believe that has to much to do with it. Joba and Phil have long been stud prospects with a world of potential and expectations they have yet to live up to. I think this might be the year that all changes, or at least I sure as hell hope so.

 

So you think father time couldn't catch up to both Jeter and A-Rod?

Lets be fair here. Sure it's possible, but both display a youthful exuberance for their ages, and both played very good defenses this year. Also, after the year Jeter had defensively, I can't see him drastically declining after making such a dramatic improvement this past year.

[yankees228]

26, while that was my stance, at this point, I do acknowledge the possibility that the Yankees had reason to believe that Matsui's knee wouldn't be able to hold up in 2010.

[26 to 6]

You tend to use stats when they back up your point, so I'm not surprised you left them out of this argument.

 

1B

Team 1: -4.1 UZR/150 last year (1.7 career)

Team 2: 11.1 UZR/150 last year (4.4 career)

 

2B

Team 1: -5.2 UZR/150 last year (-5.4 career)

Team 2: 10.6 UZR/150 last year (7.4 career)

 

SS

Team 1: 8.4 UZR/150 last year (-4.6 career)

Team 2: 1.0 UZR/150 last year (-2.9 career)

 

3B

Team 1: -11.7 UZR/150 last year (-2.2 career)

Team 2: -5.4 UZR/150 last year (8.6 career)

 

LF

Team 1: -19.2 UZR/150 last year (4.0 career)

Team 2: Did not play LF last year (21.8 career in limited time)

 

CF

Team 1: 1.6 UZR/150 last year (4.9 career)

Team 2: 10.3 UZR/150 last year (5.7 career)

 

RF

Team 1: -1.2 UZR/150 last year (6.0 career)

Team 2: 15.7 UZR/150 last year (6.0 career)

 

When you take out the names to eliminate bias, guess which team has a decisive advantage defensively at 5 out of 7 positions?

 

Consider yourself enlightened.

Many people here have debated the merit and accuracy of UZR at some positions. But if you're going to solely rely on that for the bulk of your analysis, by all means go for it!

[Imperial59]

Anyone with the slightiest baseball knowledge can see the Yankees rape the Red Sox with their bats so theres no need for this and if someone needs you to show them that the Yankees lineup is better.....then they just aren't even worth talking to.

 

Exactly why I said, "trolling at it's finest". The most comical part however was how Jacksonian was acting like he "might as well" do an "inevitable" comparison between the offenses before someone else did.

 

He's the most entertaining person on this board, and I don't think he's trying to be.

[26 to 6]

26' date=' while that was my stance, at this point, I do acknowledge the possibility that the Yankees had reason to believe that Matsui's knee wouldn't be able to hold up in 2010.[/quote']

Yeah i saw that later on. Even so, while there the concern over his health, there should also be concern over Nick Johnson's health. I wouldn't worry too much about Matsui, especially if he is primarily DHing. I think his clutch tendencies and big hits still make him the better fit, but I'm not complaining about Johnson by any means.

[Imperial59]

Many people here have debated the merit and accuracy of UZR at some positions. But if you're going to solely rely on that for the bulk of your analysis' date=' by all means go for it![/quote']

 

Do you care to make a counterargument or do you just want to bash the stats because they show the Sox as having a much better defense?

 

P.S. - What defensive stats should I have included with UZR, FPCT? It's not like there's a lot of reliable fielding stats out there.

[Emmz]

26' date=' while that was my stance, at this point, I do acknowledge the possibility that the Yankees had reason to believe that Matsui's knee wouldn't be able to hold up in 2010.[/quote']

 

I mentioned something of his health concerns in another thread, where Gom had stated that there are health concerns for Nick Johnson. It's true, there are, he's never really played a season without missing atleast 20 games. It's a concern, but the fact that he's recovered from missing an entire season, and most of the next seems pretty good to me. Not only that, though, but Matsui has missed about 60 games or more twice since 2006, and in two seperate seasons. I think that's legitimate.

[Dipre]

In all of this Daisuke/Buch & Joba/Hughes talk I honestly think you guys are underestimating the abilities of Joba and Hughes. I'm not gonna go out and say that they'll be better than Dice-K and Buchholz' date=' nor will I say that Buchholz and Dice-K will be better than Joba and Hughes. All 4 have the potential and ability to be very good this year. But it's hard to factor in the other variables involved here, such as health and endurance, among others. My question becomes, if the Sox do acquire Adrian Gonzalez, which will most likely be at the expense of Buchholz and force Wakefield into the rotation, what back end would you consider more of a "sure thing" (not that I condiser any of them a SURE thing). I honestly feel that Joba/Hughes is more likely to succeed than Dice-K/Wakefield. It's hard to determine though. I just wanted to gather everyone else opinion on that matter. I have a feeling what the consensus will be though ([i']health concerns and age over youth and "stuff,"[/i] or to be fair experience over inexperience). I have to disagree though, and part of my opinion might be due to biased, but I don't believe that has to much to do with it. Joba and Phil have long been stud prospects with a world of potential and expectations they have yet to live up to. I think this might be the year that all changes, or at least I sure as hell hope so.

 

Statistically and logically, there is a much higher chance for success for Buch and Dice-K than Joba and Hughes, and the main reason is Dice-K, who has proven he can pitch an entire season effectively, and last year, Buch showed better command and stamina than Joba as a starter, whose endurance is in question. As for Hughes, he wasn't even fully stretched out to be a starter. It's not about underestimating abilities, it's about who has less question marks when it comes to the possibility of getting positive results, and the answer is clearly Bucholz and Dice-K.

 

 

]Lets be fair here. Sure it's possible, but both display a youthful exuberance for their ages, and both played very good defenses this year. Also, after the year Jeter had defensively, I can't see him drastically declining after making such a dramatic improvement this past year.

 

You're taking things out of context. I never spoke of a guaranteed decline, i spoke about their ages because natural regression is impossible to stop, and some decline from either or both of them could help even the odds, and it was all just to bring me to the point that Jacko speaks of "Father Time" for Red Sox players on a constant basis, but Yankee players are not impervious to it, so why does he never take it into account?

 

Some objectivity is required on both of the subjects i have touched on this post.

[Dipre]

Many people here have debated the merit and accuracy of UZR at some positions. But if you're going to solely rely on that for the bulk of your analysis' date=' by all means go for it![/quote']

 

UZR is extremely accurate in the OF, 3B and 2B, very accurate at SS, and not very accurate at 1B.

 

That being said, apart from 1B, the comparison is sound.

[Emmz]

Many people here have debated the merit and accuracy of UZR at some positions. But if you're going to solely rely on that for the bulk of your analysis' date=' by all means go for it![/quote']

 

UZR at many positions, including all of the outfield positions, and most of the infield positions, is pretty accurate.

[Imperial59]

UZR is extremely accurate in the OF, 3B and 2B, very accurate at SS, and not very accurate at 1B.

 

That being said, apart from 1B, the comparison is sound.

 

Yeah, even if you take away the 1B comparison, the Red Sox have clearly better defenders at second base, third base, center field and in left field. And it's pretty much a wash between the two teams at every other position.