Holliday wants to be a Yankee?

[Emmz]

But it obviously isn't an outrageous figure in the minds of the Steinbrenners'. They have the money. They want to win. They spend the money. The Yankees' payroll is enormous. I know I already said it, but I'm just a fan who doesn't care about those things. Just like I don't care about who took steroids. Just like I don't care about whether or not these guys sign autographs. Just like I don't care how much money these guys make. Just like I don't care what these guys do in the offseason. I'm a baseball fan. I care about the game on the field. For the most part, the other stuff is irrelevant to me.

 

EDIT: First sentence in response to Emmz's post.

 

The argument would be much more valid had they actually won. I mean, of course you'd spend an outrageous amount of money to win, it's a sport without a salary cap. However, the fact that the Yanks have a payroll that is much higher than any other team is going to be criticized at times, and for this, they are often one of the main reasons why others want to see a salary cap.

[yankees228]

I'm willing to bet there aren't a lot of Royals or Pirates fans who have the same "focus only on the field" mentality. I don't think it is a coincidence that such a brasen lack of caring comes from someone whose team is never out of contention or more than 6 months from a multiple hundred-million FA signing.

 

On one hand you make it very clear that you just don't give a s***, none of this stuff matters. On the other hand you say all you care about is the game. You put up your Yankee fanhood like a shield. Like most Yankee fans it deludes you into believing there is something rightous about what you're doing. Kind of like a bullfighter.

 

It has nothing to do with what team I root for. Obviously you're going to say that I feel this way because I am a Yankee fan. You're going to call that my defense. That's fine, but I can honestly tell you that my fandom has nothing to do with how I feel about these things. You can choose to believe me, or not to believe me, that's your choice. I'm not going to continue to try to convince of it, because, as I'm sure you would agree, it's pointless.

[yankees228]

The argument would be much more valid had they actually won. I mean' date=' of course you'd spend an outrageous amount of money to win, it's a sport without a salary cap. However, the fact that the Yanks have a payroll that is much higher than any other team is going to be criticized at times, and for this, they are often one of the main reasons why others want to see a salary cap.[/quote']

 

Absolutely. I completely understand why the Yankees' spending is one of the main reasons why people want to see a salary cap. If a salary cap is implementing, c'est la vie. You won't see me complaining.

 

As for the "actually winning" part, I disagree. The Yankees spending, with the exception of 2008, has worked. They have made the playoffs every single year. I've stated this opinion many times, but, I'm of the belief that you can build to win in the regular season, when things even out over a large enough sample size. Once you get to the postseason, all bets are off. I'm not saying it's a 50/50 crapshoot, but I would not have been shocked if the Twins had knocked off the Yankees.

 

Once again, I know that people here are probably going to think that I'm only calling the postseason a crapshoot in an attempt to justify the Yankees' recent postseason failures. I'm not doing that, but, if you want to believe that, be my guest.

[jacksonianmarch]

Holliday "wants to be a yankee" because A- he will be paid more than anyone else. And B- he will have the best chance to win, because said team will continue to pay top dollar for FAs and the team will be loaded with talent. By that logic, everyone wants to be a yankee.

 

I do think the yankees will go hard for him. Maybe not as hard as they did for Tex, but I do think it will be hard enough to make it difficult for St Louis to keep him. I think the Mets, Sox, and Yankees will be in it to win it, and we are likely looking at a contract in the range of 7yrs 110-120 mil.

[Dipre]

Holliday "wants to be a yankee" because A- he will be paid more than anyone else. And B- he will have the best chance to win' date=' because said team will continue to pay top dollar for FAs and the team will be loaded with talent. By that logic, everyone wants to be a yankee. [/b']

 

I do think the yankees will go hard for him. Maybe not as hard as they did for Tex, but I do think it will be hard enough to make it difficult for St Louis to keep him. I think the Mets, Sox, and Yankees will be in it to win it, and we are likely looking at a contract in the range of 7yrs 110-120 mil.

 

A) True.

 

B ) Not true.

 

In the sport of baseball, the Yankees don't have "The best chance to win". That is an outright lie. They have one of the highest possibilities, but stop pimping them like they're the Bulls of the 90's.

[jacksonianmarch]

I am not pimping them as the bulls of the 90s. I am saying that you have the best chance to win in NY. They have been to the playoffs 14 out of the last 15 seasons, took home the trophy 4 times, went to the series 6 times and are well on their way to another series this yr. Nobody offers you that. Not even Boston. And it has a lot to do with the financial advantage that NY is not afraid to flaunt

[Dipre]

I am not pimping them as the bulls of the 90s. I am saying that you have the best chance to win in NY. They have been to the playoffs 14 out of the last 15 seasons' date=' [b']took home the trophy 4 times,[/b] went to the series 6 times and are well on their way to another series this yr. Nobody offers you that. Not even Boston. And it has a lot to do with the financial advantage that NY is not afraid to flaunt

 

In the 90's.

 

This is a time in baseball where no team can be considered a "lock" to win in the postseason.

How many of the 7 times they've gone this decade have brought home trophies?

[jacksonianmarch]

It starts with getting to the postseason. You have the best chance to win with a team that consistently gets to the postseason. And NY has been that team over the long haul. AND, with the salary disparity, the Yankees will continue to be that team.

 

And, when considering the current teams as constructed, it is hard to argue that NY gives you the best chance to win.

[jacksonianmarch]

In the 90's.

 

This is a time in baseball where no team can be considered a "lock" to win in the postseason.

How many of the 7 times they've gone this decade have brought home trophies?

 

Once, in 2000. And maybe twice depending on how they do from here on out.

[Dipre]

Once' date=' in 2000. And maybe twice depending on how they do from here on out.[/quote']

 

That's surprising.

 

I expected the team with the absolutely best chance to win and who has made the playoffs 14 of the last 15 years to be the team who has won the most this decade.

[jacksonianmarch]

If they win this yr, then they will tie the sox for that distinction. Dipre, now you are just trying arguing semantics. You have the best chance to win on a team that consistently gets the best talent and on a team that consistently makes the playoffs. Boston has been a model of consistency since 2003. NY has been a model of consistency since 1995. There is a bit of a difference here.

[Paradisecity]

If the price for Holliday is 7 years, 110-120, I hope that the sox don't sign him.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

If they win this yr' date=' then they will tie the sox for that distinction. Dipre, now you are just trying arguing semantics. You have the best chance to win on a team that consistently gets the best talent and on a team that consistently makes the playoffs. Boston has been a model of consistency since 2003. NY has been a model of consistency since 1995. There is a bit of a difference here.[/quote']

lololol

 

 

Consistency since '95 overrides consistency since '03? Even though the latter team has one two championships this decade as opposed to the former's one? Lol alrighty then.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

But I think it's funny that you guys really doubt that anyone ever genuinely wanted to play for the Yankees for a reason other than money.

 

99% of the time, money is the beginning and the end of the discussion. Winning is a distant second.

 

I guess the tradition,

 

They don't care.

 

winning,

 

See above (lol dats funnie u say winning as if ur the teem to win 2 titlez tis dekade).

 

first class facilities,

 

They don't care.

 

the big stage,

 

They don't care.

 

and the fans have nothing to do with it.

 

The same fans that boo A-Rod every year? The same fans that boo players when they're in slumps? Ya, thats the deal closer alright!

 

Sure the money doesn't hurt, and I'm not saying that some players don't wanna come here just for the money, but you hear so many people say how they dreamed about playing for the Yankees when they were kids, when money wasn't on their mind. I find it hard to believe they're all liars.

 

:lol:

 

This is the stupidest thing I've read in I don't know how long. Money doesn't hurt? MONEY DICTATES EVERYTHING TODAY. This is a business, slugger. Maybe baseball was a philanthropist league 30 years ago, but today it's different.

 

They say they dreamed of playing for the Yankees because its the right thing to say when they've signed that contract for the big bucks. What would you rather they say, 'I signed with this team because they offered me the most money'?

 

Holy f*** are you naive. Pull your head out of the clouds.

[jacksonianmarch]

Winning and money. Cmon now. The Yankees right now are the better team. The Yankees have the brighter future at this point thanks to getting 3 top notch players in their prime yrs. And they have been consistent since 95.

[bsox0407]

Winning and money. Cmon now. The Yankees right now are the better team. The Yankees have the brighter future at this point thanks to getting 3 top notch players in their prime yrs. And they have been consistent since 95.

 

they have been consistent on buying every player they can get their greedy little hands on.

[jacksonianmarch]

and they could continue that

[Dojji]

I think it's about time for a third team in New York again. Gotta do something to dilute this thing the Yankees have got.

[jacksonianmarch]

It will never happen. Steinbrenner and Wilpon would have a cow if someone cut into their profit margin.

[bsox0407]

It will never happen. Steinbrenner and Wilpon would have a cow if someone cut into their profit margin.

 

how about wejust disband the yankees or just steinbrenner. :lol:

[Gom]

I love how everyone is saying Burnett. The Braves offered him less than 2 million less over 5 years.

 

Who knows...maybe, just maybe...he wanted to pitch in New York. Perish the thought.

[Paradisecity]

I love how everyone is saying Burnett. The Braves offered him less than 2 million less over 5 years.

 

Who knows...maybe, just maybe...he wanted to pitch in New York. Perish the thought.

 

Yes, just like how he wanted to pitch in Toronto the last time he was a free agent.

[Gom]

This doesn't make what Steinbrenner does look like child's play. It makes it look like the history of the Yankees is filled with absurd disadvantages that should make people put even less weight in their many dynasties. Kudos to you for pointing it out. That Wikipedia entry had virtually nothing to do with payroll disparity, which is what we were talking about. Telling me that your OLD girlfriend was a meth user, so your current alcoholic one doesn't look so bad is an interesting tactic. I'm not impressed.

In my opinion, it does. We can agree to disagree. The fact that the Yankees basically controlled 1/4 of the American League and that it coincided with their dynastic run in the 50's and then their subsequent collapse when Finley bought the team and their talent pool dried up is more than a coincidence. To me, collusion is much worse than money.

 

Explain to me why Holliday wants to play for the Yankees first, and then the Mets. The Yankees, yes, you can cite money. The Mets? Why come to a team that is terrible? Mismanaged. Maybe...just maybe, he wants to play in NEW YORK. How come he didn't list Boston, or Philly, or LA?

 

If anything, this is not all that bad for Boston. This all but assures Bay coming back to Boston, and the loss of Matsui/Damon.

 

Matsui will be lucky to break 8 million, and Damon will be hard pressed to break 10. Would I rather have both Matsui and Damon instead of Holliday? Absolutely. I'd rather sign Matsui for 5-6 million [look at Abreu and Dunn's contract], let Damon walk, and use the money for another starting pitcher.

[26 to 6]

And he totally missed the point about a General Manager of a sports team shouldn't make moves based on obcession over what your rival is doing.

I didn't miss anything man, I'm just saying it's funny that a red Sox fan is trying to make that point. I said I agreed with you to an extent. But if anyone here is missing something it's you...say the past 10 years.

 

26 to 6 is just plain wrong if he thinks the Yankees should get Holliday if Cashman hears that Holliday could sign with the Sox.

 

The Teixeira example doesn't work each and every time.

 

Sometimes though!

 

 

(One could argue that the Yankees signed Teix because he simply was a needed piece.)

If i'm just plain wrong in that thinking then you should probably be calling for Theo Epstein's job. When it comes to making decisions based on the moves of a rival the Red Sox; Theo and John Henry especially, are NOTORIOUS for their obsession with everything going on in the Yankees world and figuring out ways to counteract that. The fact that we're having this conversation is crazy and I still can't help but laugh about it.

 

And with Damon, Nady, and Matsui coming off the books the same could be said for Holliday. He could too be a "needed" piece. In fact more needed than Teixeira was, because at the time of the Tex signing we already had a first baseman, albeit not a very good one in Nick Swisher.

 

But Theo has actually built a model of success by not wanting to counter every George-Hankster move, or play "keep-away" like that poster 26 to 6 wants the Yankees to do if Holliday might come to Fenway.

Bro no disrespect, but have you been living under a rock the past 5-8 years? Almost every move the Sox have made has been connected to the Yankees in some way. Every public statement your owner makes is ABOUT the Yankees in some way, shape, of form. s***, go look it up man. He's the one that like to play newspaper name-calling with the media when it comes to the Yankees. Let's not forget it was John Henry who coined the term "Evil Empire." He's made countless statements regarding the Yankees over the years I wish I could remember them all. I'm still in utter shock and disbelief that I'm actually having this conversation with a Sox fan. You should know better than that man, cmon. There have been so many instances of this in recent history I could write a book. One example would be Daisuke Matsuzaka. Why the hell do you think the Sox payed so much in posting fees for him? To keep him AWAY from the Yankees, who were thought to be the favorite and the preferred destination for Matsuzaka at the time.

 

Predictable.

There was nothing more for me to say. Jokes are supposed to be funny, and your post was a straight joke my friend. Red Sox fans are really oblivious to a lot of things that their organization does. And it's not that I'm criticizing those things, but you guys need to at least be aware. Like with us Yankee fans we know we spend a lot of money and have a financial advantage. And you're right, with our spending we SHOULD win every year, that's why we put have those expectations year in and year out, so it goes without even saying buddy, nobody's disputing that. But to ignore the revenue sharing system put in place by MLB is a joke. The Yankees fund MOST of the revenue sharing that other team's recieve...for COMPETITIVE BALANCE. Now you might think it's a joke and irrelevant, but those were the rules put in place to implement more competitive balance, and we play well within the rules. And it has worked in increasing a competitive balance, as we see more and more small market teams competing on a regular basis. So to say that we shouldn't even bring up the revenue sharing argument is a joke in and of itself. Now it shouldn't be the basis of the argument, but it's certainly a key element. Everything that we spend we put back into our organization and the REST OF THE LEAGUE, per the revenue sharing. As for steroids man, shutup with that. I really don't want to hear another Red Sox fan cry foul over the use of PED's by Yankee players after the s*** that came out this year.

 

The sweat off my ass on a hot summer day posts at a higher quality than he does

 

Each of these points was addressed in my post. Your reaction is predictable too. 2007 and 2004 were tainted, those teams spent just as much as the Yankees. $127m and $184m are the same amounts. Manny and Ortiz definitely used in 2004. A-Rod only did in Texas. It's a joke Gom. You can definitely do better.

Ignorance is bliss, huh? Nobody said $127 mil and $184 mil were the same thing, but the Sox still outspent 28 other teams. If that's not "buying a championship" then I don't know what is. As for 2004 and 2007, yes, they ARE tainted. Prior to the Manny and Ortiz revelations this year you guys cried foul about all our championships of the 90's and complained about how they were tainted and shouldn't count and so on, so it's only fair that you get what you give. I'm not saying you particularly, although I'm sure you've said something along those lines at some point regarding the Yankees championships; but the Red Sox fanbase as a whole assassinated the Yankees following the Mitchell Report (which let's not forget was done by a Red Sox board member who got all of his information from New York sources and included a minimal amount of Red Sox, conveniently of course), but for some reason turned the other cheek and made excuses this year. Repulsive behavior.

 

I don't know why we all can't agree to just chalk it up and forget about it. Bottom line is EVERYBODY was doing it (and by everybody I mean everybody except Jeter, Rivera, and Posada ); Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Tigers, Angels, A's....EVERYBODY. To singlr out one team, especially when your team benefited from it's use is pure hypocrisy. Even more so a joke is what it really is. Baseball is trying to get over the tainted steroid era, so let's move past it rather than continue to argue about it because the sad truth of the matter is that the all-time HRleader used, multiple key Yankee players used, multiple key Red Sox players used, same goes for the Twins, Mets, Diamondbacks, etc., etc., etc. So let's DEAD that argument, as it's gotten pretty old. Juiced or not, World Championships are hard to come by. It's still an accomplishment. But you can't go and point fingers and call the Yankees championships "tainted" and not expect the same thing in return when the players who were found to be using for the Red Sox, and the time that they were using is much more relevant. So as far as I'm concerned the book is closed on steroid discussion.

[26 to 6]

I think it's about time for a third team in New York again. Gotta do something to dilute this thing the Yankees have got.

I would certainly not be opposed to it, but as Jacko pointed out Freddy boy and the Steinbrenner clan would NEVER let it happen. But if there is one market in the world that can support three baseball teams, it's New York.

[Gom]

Wow 26...probably the best post you ever had.

 

Take that, TalkSox bitches. Especially you Emmz...you got spanked. Hard. With a paddle. Bent over a knee. Naked.

 

Ok, it's time to stop.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Winning and money. Cmon now.

 

Hey, you described the Red Sox.

 

The Yankees right now are the better team.

 

Yes.

 

The Yankees have the brighter future at this point thanks to getting 3 top notch players in their prime yrs.

 

And the Red Sox have an ocean of depth in the minor leagues, along with a major league team that annually wins 95 games. And more recent playoff success than the Yankees. Just sayin'.

 

And they have been consistent since 95.

 

The fact that you think this counts for anything is reason enough to discount your argument.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hey, you described the Red Sox.

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

And the Red Sox have an ocean of depth in the minor leagues, along with a major league team that annually wins 95 games. And more recent playoff success than the Yankees. Just sayin'.

 

 

 

The fact that you think this counts for anything is reason enough to discount your argument.

 

 

An ocean of depth in the minor leagues? Really? The sox have a lot of talent at the lower levels. But they havent made their way to being "depth" yet. The sox system has thinned out thanks to the promotions of Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia, Papelbon, Bard, Ellsbury, etc. I would actually consider the sox minor leagues to be a minus in comparison with NY for the next 2-3 seasons, until the 08 and 09 high school kids make their slow way up the depth charts. You need to look at the very stark reality that the sox are going to have to win with what they have at the MLB level for a little while. They've tapped that minor league resource dry.

[yankees228]

If a player is looking to go to a winning franchise, the fact that they have consistently won since 1995 actually is relevant. Because of all the money they spend, they are probably the best bet year in and year out to make the playoffs. Their regular season success since the strike proves this.

 

EDIT: In response to J_E.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

If a player is looking to go to a winning franchise, the fact that they have consistently won since 1995 actually is relevant. Because of all the money they spend, they are probably the best bet year in and year out to make the playoffs. Their regular season success since the strike proves this.

 

EDIT: In response to J_E.

 

Since this management took over, they've been nothing but consistently successful. By this measurement, some random 2006/2007 free agent would value and prefer the Braves over the Cardinals, since the Braves had a longer, more consistent streak of division titles and fairly minor success (especially recently), while the Cardinals were the ones with the recent bigger success (2 world series tripsk, one being a victory, 100 win season, etc.).

 

Money is the dictator.

 

EDIT: This is a tangent anyway. The point is, money talks for 99% of the players out there.