Holliday wants to be a Yankee?

[26 to 6]

Yeah, cause everyone outside of NY is so impressed with their ability to throw truckloads of money to players to get them to play there. Such artistry. Such grace. Such ********.

 

$16.5m for AJ Burnett? Really?

 

The historically great Yankees teams would be embarassed about the currently great teams. The 2000's Yankees will forever have an asterisk by their name in many fans' minds, not because they have PED users swatting HRs (most teams do) but because they spend $67 million more than the second highest team. They should win. Honestly, a well run team with that advantage should probably win every single year, and I wouldn't be shocked if they did for the next 5 years at least. I would undoubtedly say the same thing if a team had such an advantage in the NBA or the NHL. It happens to be the case for the team I detest, but I would criticize any team doing that. To those who are rational or who are outside the Yankee's sphere of influence, it is an absurd situation that is not mitigated by the fact that teams like the Mets, Cubs, Tigers, Phillies, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers and Astros all spend more than $100m each.

 

Don't bring arguments about revenue sharing. Don't bring arguments about other owners just not having the gumption to spend another $100 million per-year in markets where it wouldn't offer any return. Having teams be "competitive" is in everyone's interest, Yankees included; any financial efforts they make to preserve the facade of competitive balance is preserving the very system they ultimately benefit from. Without a popular league their wins don't mean anything, meanwhile the league is losing interest in cities that never win and have no hope to.

 

I'm sure I'll be called a hypocrite by Gom, and other fans will say "stop whining". I don't care. It is an irrefutable fact that the Yankees make and spend way more money than anyone else. Whether they are crushing teams during the regular season or eeking out dramatic wins in the playoffs, they always have the advantage and are the heavy favorites. If I were a Yankee fan, I think I would feel guilty about the lopsided way that my team has achieved and would have to be prepared to defend against that argument every time I opened my big fat mouth about how great my team is, and how other people should bow to our dominance.

LOL

[example1]

LOL

 

Predictable.

[Dipre]

Predictable.

 

He sure helps elevate the posting quality of the forum.

[Lester82]

And he totally missed the point about a General Manager of a sports team shouldn't make moves based on obcession over what your rival is doing.

[example1]

And he totally missed the point about a General Manager of a sports team shouldn't make moves based on obcession over what your rival is doing.

 

I'm actually fine with doing this. It seems logical for one owner or GM to respond to moves of another team. I just think the fans of those teams can't then turn around and say "other teams just aren't investing their money" or "You could spend that much money too", when defending their team's enormous financial advantage.

 

Teams try to spend the money on the best players, but when push comes to shove, the Yankees don't lose out on someone they really want.

[Gom]

Yeah, cause everyone outside of NY is so impressed with their ability to throw truckloads of money to players to get them to play there. Such artistry. Such grace. Such ********.

 

$16.5m for AJ Burnett? Really?

 

The historically great Yankees teams would be embarassed about the currently great teams. The 2000's Yankees will forever have an asterisk by their name in many fans' minds, not because they have PED users swatting HRs (most teams do) but because they spend $67 million more than the second highest team. They should win. Honestly, a well run team with that advantage should probably win every single year, and I wouldn't be shocked if they did for the next 5 years at least. I would undoubtedly say the same thing if a team had such an advantage in the NBA or the NHL. It happens to be the case for the team I detest, but I would criticize any team doing that. To those who are rational or who are outside the Yankee's sphere of influence, it is an absurd situation that is not mitigated by the fact that teams like the Mets, Cubs, Tigers, Phillies, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers and Astros all spend more than $100m each.

 

Don't bring arguments about revenue sharing. Don't bring arguments about other owners just not having the gumption to spend another $100 million per-year in markets where it wouldn't offer any return. Having teams be "competitive" is in everyone's interest, Yankees included; any financial efforts they make to preserve the facade of competitive balance is preserving the very system they ultimately benefit from. Without a popular league their wins don't mean anything, meanwhile the league is losing interest in cities that never win and have no hope to.

 

I'm sure I'll be called a hypocrite by Gom, and other fans will say "stop whining". I don't care. It is an irrefutable fact that the Yankees make and spend way more money than anyone else. Whether they are crushing teams during the regular season or eeking out dramatic wins in the playoffs, they always have the advantage and are the heavy favorites. If I were a Yankee fan, I think I would feel guilty about the lopsided way that my team has achieved and would have to be prepared to defend against that argument every time I opened my big fat mouth about how great my team is, and how other people should bow to our dominance.

I never claimed that my team did not have an advantage. Only an idiot would disagree.

 

Where was this complaining when you guys bought the 2007 championship with $200 million to sign Drew, Dice, and Lugo? Not there.

 

You have a lot of balls writing about PEDs, considering your two biggest hitters were juicing.

 

You know who never got caught juicing? Jeter, Posada, Mo, Bernie, and Rivera. How about the Sox? You are a second-tier team without Manny and Ortiz. At least Manny was a great hitter before. I doubt Ortiz ever hit a homerun when he wasn't juiced. He was about to be cut before he had a "miraculous" turn around.

 

Fact is, the Red Sox won their only championships in 100 years by 1) Their biggest stars cheating and 2) Buying players.

 

The truth is, we do #2 better than anyone. You do #1 better than anyone, or at least your team did.

 

I don't make the system. Neither do the Yankees.

 

Once and for all...the owners spend the money rather than put it in their pocket to put a winning team on the field. You want to blame Cashman or the Steinbrenners? Wake up. Your gripes should be directed towards Selig and the MLBPA. They are playing within the rules. You really want the Yankees to say "hey...we need to curb our spending so other teams can win"?

 

If you think this is a new thing...well, go look up baseball history, and check the relationship between the Yankees and Kansas City in the 50s and 60s. It makes what Steinbrenner does look like childs play.

 

Sour grapes from a Red Sox fan....how original. How unique.

[Emmz]

LOL

 

And another hi-fi posting masterpiece by 26 to 6

[Emmz]

He sure helps elevate the posting quality of the forum.

 

The sweat off my ass on a hot summer day posts at a higher quality than he does

[Dojji]

I never claimed that my team did not have an advantage. Only an idiot would disagree.

 

Where was this complaining when you guys bought the 2007 championship with $200 million to sign Drew, Dice, and Lugo? Not there.

 

Because Drew (.796 OPS), Daisuke (4.40 ERA) and Lugo (don't get me started) were such integral parts of that 2007 championship team.

 

Drew and Daisuke were, at least, average to somewhat above average players in 2007, and had playoff performances that somewhat redeemed them. Lugo wasn't even that. Itt wouldn't really be true to say that any of them earned their salaries that year (the closest is probably Daisuke, who at least threw 200 innings and won 15 games)

 

Dustin Pedroia, Kevin Youkilis, Mike Lowell, Josh Beckett, Curt Schilling, won us that Workd Series, and 2 of those 5 were homegrown, one was a salary dump, and two were bigtime trade acquisitions. the total AAV for those players at the time was less than $25M.

 

The truth is, we do #2 better than anyone.

 

You're a great source of straight lines tonight.

[Lester82]

" I'm actually fine with doing this. It seems logical for one owner or GM to respond to moves of another team."

 

I'll just disagree alittle here.... your argument can certainly work as well.

 

I don't think a G.M. should respond too much to rival moves. I think some people are just feeling so burned by the Teixeira thing.

 

When Arod came to the Yankees after he was supposed to come to the Red Sox, what could the Red Sox do? It stung for awhile, but the Red Sox survived by having already built a World Series club with Schilling and Foulke being added.

 

The problem this year? The Red Sox had holes and couldn't turn to plan B - There wasn't one. So, Cashman 1, Theo 0

 

But Theo has actually built a model of success by not wanting to counter every George-Hankster move, or play "keep-away" like that poster 26 to 6 wants the Yankees to do if Holliday might come to Fenway.

 

The Yankees don't need to keep Holliday from the Red Sox. They already have a World Series contender and can feel confident about their club without needing to keep Holliday away from Yawkey Way and they don't absolutely need Holliday on the Yankees.

 

Anyway, we can agree to differ on this...

[Gom]

The sweat off my ass on a hot summer day posts at a higher quality than he does

 

Don't get me started on the sweat on your ass on a hot summer day, girl.

[Dojji]

The problem this year? The Red Sox had holes and couldn't turn to plan B - There wasn't one. So, Cashman 1, Theo 2.

 

 

Corrected.

[Lester82]

But anyway, Example 1 made a good argument.

 

26 to 6 is just plain wrong if he thinks the Yankees should get Holliday if Cashman hears that Holliday could sign with the Sox.

 

The Teixeira example doesn't work each and every time.

 

Sometimes though!

 

 

 

(One could argue that the Yankees signed Teix because he simply was a needed piece.)

[example1]

I never claimed that my team did not have an advantage. Only an idiot would disagree.

 

Where was this complaining when you guys bought the 2007 championship with $200 million to sign Drew, Dice, and Lugo? Not there.

 

You have a lot of balls writing about PEDs, considering your two biggest hitters were juicing.

 

You know who never got caught juicing? Jeter, Posada, Mo, Bernie, and Rivera. How about the Sox? You are a second-tier team without Manny and Ortiz. At least Manny was a great hitter before. I doubt Ortiz ever hit a homerun when he wasn't juiced. He was about to be cut before he had a "miraculous" turn around.

 

Fact is, the Red Sox won their only championships in 100 years by 1) Their biggest stars cheating and 2) Buying players.

 

The truth is, we do #2 better than anyone. You do #1 better than anyone, or at least your team did.

 

I don't make the system. Neither do the Yankees.

 

Once and for all...the owners spend the money rather than put it in their pocket to put a winning team on the field. You want to blame Cashman or the Steinbrenners? Wake up. Your gripes should be directed towards Selig and the MLBPA. They are playing within the rules. You really want the Yankees to say "hey...we need to curb our spending so other teams can win"?

 

Each of these points was addressed in my post. Your reaction is predictable too. 2007 and 2004 were tainted, those teams spent just as much as the Yankees. $127m and $184m are the same amounts. Manny and Ortiz definitely used in 2004. A-Rod only did in Texas. It's a joke Gom. You can definitely do better.

 

If you think this is a new thing...well, go look up baseball history, and check the relationship between the Yankees and Kansas City in the 50s and 60s. It makes what Steinbrenner does look like childs play.

 

I would love a link. I looked for about 20 minutes and didn't find any comprehensive listings of the salaries in the 50's and 60's. How about you "look up baseball history" and inform the rest of us about what we're missing.

 

Sour grapes from a Red Sox fan....how original. How unique.

 

Don't let my sour grapes ruin the high-fives you give yourself every morning.

[Emmz]

Don't get me started on the sweat on your ass on a hot summer day' date=' girl.[/quote']

 

Oh whatever!

[example1]

" I'm actually fine with doing this. It seems logical for one owner or GM to respond to moves of another team."

 

I'll just disagree alittle here.... your argument can certainly work as well.

 

I don't think a G.M. should respond too much to rival moves. I think some people are just feeling so burned by the Teixeira thing.

 

When Arod came to the Yankees after he was supposed to come to the Red Sox, what could the Red Sox do? It stung for awhile, but the Red Sox survived by having already built a World Series club with Schilling and Foulke being added.

 

The problem this year? The Red Sox had holes and couldn't turn to plan B - There wasn't one. So, Cashman 1, Theo 0

 

But Theo has actually built a model of success by not wanting to counter every George-Hankster move, or play "keep-away" like that poster 26 to 6 wants the Yankees to do if Holliday might come to Fenway.

 

The Yankees don't need to keep Holliday from the Red Sox. They already have a World Series contender and can feel confident about their club without needing to keep Holliday away from Yawkey Way and they don't absolutely need Holliday on the Yankees.

 

Anyway, we can agree to differ on this...

 

I'm not arguing that it is about countering one move against another. I'm just saying that I can understand owners and GMs responding to on-field gains by teams who are logically potentially standing in their way. Whether or not Teixeira was every desired by the Red Sox, his addition to the Yankees was like 7 wins added or something. If the Rays added 30 wins worth of players I would definitely want the Sox to be aware of that and respond, perhaps by bidding for players the Rays want.

[Dojji]

(One could argue that the Yankees signed Teix because he simply was a needed piece.)

 

One could argue that. But then one would be right, and we can't have that can we?

[Gom]

Each of these points was addressed in my post. Your reaction is predictable too. 2007 and 2004 were tainted' date=' those teams spent just as much as the Yankees. $127m and $184m are the same amounts. Manny and Ortiz definitely used in 2004. A-Rod only did in Texas. It's a joke Gom. You can definitely do better. [/quote']

No, Arod used throughout his Yankee tenure. No doubt about it. I don't walk around with blinders like some fans, or my head up my ass like other other fans. I accept, and acknowledge. It's like the Yankee fans who bitched when Figgins was pumped. I'm all for emotion on the field, and have no problem with Joba, or Posada in 2003, or Figgins. They aren't robots...let them show it on the field.

 

Bill Simmons said it best...you guys finally won, but it's hollow to a lot of you. To some Yankee fans, it's the same. I don't believe it was really wide-spread in the mid-90's, which is why, no matter what, 1996 was and always will be special. You guys don't have that. From 1998 on, the whole game was dirty. f*** it. What can one do?

 

I would love a link. I looked for about 20 minutes and didn't find any comprehensive listings of the salaries in the 50's and 60's. How about you "look up baseball history" and inform the rest of us about what we're missing.

 

Because I'm not stupid, I'll cut and paste from Wikipedia about Arnold Johnson. Here's the quote:

 

Wooing Roy and Earle Mack, who represented their father as majority owners, Johnson finally convinced them to sell their shares for $3.5 million, then withstood a furious, eleventh-hour "save the A's" campaign from Philadelphia officials that nearly swayed Connie Sr.'s support of the deal. When the 91-year-old patriarch approved the transaction, the A's moved to Kansas City. Amid concerns of a conflict of interest, Johnson sold Yankee Stadium back to the Yankees as a condition of allowing the A's purchase. City officials bought Blues Stadium from Johnson and renamed it Municipal Stadium, heavily renovating it to bring it to major league standards.

 

Johnson showed his true colors in the lease he signed with the city. It contained a three-year escape clause allowing the A's to break the lease if attendance dropped below one million. Rumors swirled that Johnson intended to keep the team in Kansas City for only a few years before moving it to Los Angeles. If that was the case, it became moot when the Brooklyn Dodgers moved there for the 1958 season.

 

The team drew 1,393,054 fans in its first year in Kansas City, 1955—the third-highest figure in baseball (behind only the Yankees and Milwaukee Braves). However, the novelty wore off quickly as loss piled upon loss during the A's 13-year stay in Kansas City. The A's would never even approach their 1955 attendance figures again. Worse, Johnson's former business ties to the Yankees resulted in a series of trades with the Bronx Bombers that helped keep the New York dynasty afloat. Invariably, any good young player was traded to the Yankees for aging veterans and cash. Over the years, Johnson would trade such key players as Roger Maris, Bobby Shantz, Hector Lopez, Clete Boyer, Art Ditmar and Ralph Terry to the Yankees. In return, he did receive some talented younger players such as Norm Siebern and Jerry Lumpe, and the cash helped the team pay the bills. However, with virtually no exceptions, the trades were heavily weighted in favor of the Yankees. This made any fans, reporters and even other teams think that Johnson ran the A's as a Yankee farm team at the major league level. Ironically, Kansas City had been home to the Yankees' top farm team before the A's came to town.

 

According to The Baseball Hall of Shame by Nash and Zullo, "Johnson had been wheeling and dealing with Yankee owners Del Webb and Dan Topping even before he bought the A's. Webb and Topping held a second mortgage of Johnson's totaling $2.9 million. ...and it was Webb's construction company that remodeled Kansas City's stadium to meet major league specifications." The authors commented, 'No wonder Johnson was a Yankee puppet.'

 

If you want more, buy this book from Amazon:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Kansas-City-Wrong-Half-Yankees/dp/0977743659

 

Don't let my sour grapes ruin the high-fives you give yourself every morning.

 

I don't. Neither did you in 2004 and 2007. It will take someone much smarter than you to change my outlook.

 

I f***ING LOVE IT!!!!!

[ElMaestro]

Of course, as the hated yankees are closer to another championship again, the ol' argument of the "championship buying" appears again. How original. I would expect that from fans of the small market teams, but not from Red Sox fans. C'mon now.

[Dipre]

Of course' date=' as the hated yankees are closer to another championship again, the ol' argument of the "championship buying" appears again. How original. I would expect that from fans of the small market teams, but not from Red Sox fans. C'mon now.[/quote']

 

********.

 

$450 million dollars.

 

No other team is capable of flexing that sort of financial muscle. This is no "ol' argument". It's a fact. Learn to stick by them.

[Lester82]

"Of course, as the hated yankees are closer to another championship again "

 

Boy, there's something Yankee fans haven't been able to say for awhile.

[yankees228]

The Yankees spend significantly more money than any other team. However, they have a huge advantage over any other team because they choose to have a huge advantage over any other team. It's not like they're given this advantage.

 

Regardless, I know how much they spend, but I simply don't care. I heard a lot of Yankee fans saying that they didn't want Roy Halladay at the trade deadline because it would be "overkill". This just isn't how I think. I want Matt Holliday this offseason. I want John Lackey. I want Fernando Rodney.

 

Their payroll is huge. I'm not going to sit here and try to defend. I just don't care.

[ElMaestro]

Of course is a fact. And the Red Sox, Mets and some other teams are also a spending giants for the other what? 20 teams?. I have no problem "learning" to stick with them, maybe some of you have that problem. Or that 50+ millions Dice-K posting fee was what? For a guy that never ever threw a single pitch in the majors?

 

And 450M dollars is the total of those contracts. Please be fair to the numbers. They didn't spent 450M, they commited 450M in a X number of years. That's just media babbling.

[yankees228]

Of course is a fact. And the Red Sox, Mets and some other teams are also a spending giants for the other what? 20 teams?. I have no problem "learning" to stick with them, maybe some of you have that problem. Or that 50+ millions Dice-K posting fee was what? For a guy that never ever threw a single pitch in the majors?

 

And 450M dollars is the total of those contracts. Please be fair to the numbers. They didn't spent 450M, they commited 450M in a X number of years. That's just media babbling.

 

You're debating the Yankees' payroll on a Red Sox forum. There is absolutely no chance of this going anywhere.

[Emmz]

Of course is a fact. And the Red Sox' date=' Mets and some other teams are also a spending giants for the other what? 20 teams?. I have no problem "learning" to stick with them, maybe some of you have that problem. Or that 50+ millions Dice-K posting fee was what? For a guy that never ever threw a single pitch in the majors?[/quote']

 

The Yankees spend the most money in baseball by a ton. I think example said it best, 16 million for A.J. Burnett? That's ridiculous money for a guy who's ERA is consistently around the low-to-mid 4 range. I think that considering the Yankees' spending outrageous is completely justifiable.

 

And 450M dollars is the total of those contracts. Please be fair to the numbers. They didn't spent 450M, they commited 450M in a X number of years. That's just media babbling.

 

No, the media was talking about, in the offseason, how the Yankees were actually spending less money. $450 in commitments is an outrageous figure for a few guys.

[bsox0407]

Or that 50+ millions Dice-K posting fee was what? For a guy that never ever threw a single pitch in the majors?

 

so in fact you are saying that no team in baseball should ever sign a player who hasn't pitched in the majors. Oh well sorry draft picks you can't play anymore. STEPHEN STRASBURG. Enough Said. SOx spent 100 million over X years on him. At least Dice-k Could pitch the next year on a playoff caliber team unlike the Nats. the nationals would have to have to have ever team in the NL East die to make the playoffs. Strasburg signed for 15 million a year. Dice-k 10 million at the highest. 6 year 50 million plus incentives.

[yankees228]

But it obviously isn't an outrageous figure in the minds of the Steinbrenners'. They have the money. They want to win. They spend the money. The Yankees' payroll is enormous. I know I already said it, but I'm just a fan who doesn't care about those things. Just like I don't care about who took steroids. Just like I don't care about whether or not these guys sign autographs. Just like I don't care how much money these guys make. Just like I don't care what these guys do in the offseason. I'm a baseball fan. I care about the game on the field. For the most part, the other stuff is irrelevant to me.

 

EDIT: First sentence in response to Emmz's post.

[bsox0407]

The Yankees spend the most money in baseball by a ton. I think example said it best, 16 million for A.J. Burnett? That's ridiculous money for a guy who's ERA is consistently around the low-to-mid 4 range. I think that considering the Yankees' spending outrageous is completely justifiable.

 

No, the media was talking about, in the offseason, how the Yankees were actually spending less money. $450 in commitments is an outrageous figure for a few guys.

 

the yankees spend outrageous money. 450 million dollars for those few guys could pay some teams entire salary for a few years. 450 million could pay the pirates salary for 8 years.

[example1]

No, Arod used throughout his Yankee tenure. No doubt about it. I don't walk around with blinders like some fans, or my head up my ass like other other fans. I accept, and acknowledge. It's like the Yankee fans who bitched when Figgins was pumped. I'm all for emotion on the field, and have no problem with Joba, or Posada in 2003, or Figgins. They aren't robots...let them show it on the field.

 

I agree about the emotions stuff.

 

Bill Simmons said it best...you guys finally won, but it's hollow to a lot of you. To some Yankee fans, it's the same. I don't believe it was really wide-spread in the mid-90's, which is why, no matter what, 1996 was and always will be special. You guys don't have that. From 1998 on, the whole game was dirty. f*** it. What can one do?

 

It is convenient to believe it wasn't widespread in the mid-90s. I believe it was. We can agree to disagree.

 

Because I'm not stupid, I'll cut and paste from Wikipedia about Arnold Johnson. Here's the quote:

 

If you want more, buy this book from Amazon:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Kansas-City-Wrong-Half-Yankees/dp/0977743659

 

This doesn't make what Steinbrenner does look like child's play. It makes it look like the history of the Yankees is filled with absurd disadvantages that should make people put even less weight in their many dynasties. Kudos to you for pointing it out. That Wikipedia entry had virtually nothing to do with payroll disparity, which is what we were talking about. Telling me that your OLD girlfriend was a meth user, so your current alcoholic one doesn't look so bad is an interesting tactic. I'm not impressed.

[example1]

But it obviously isn't an outrageous figure in the minds of the Steinbrenners'. They have the money. They want to win. They spend the money. The Yankees' payroll is enormous. I know I already said it' date=' but I'm just a fan who doesn't care about those things. Just like I don't care about who took steroids. Just like I don't care about whether or not these guys sign autographs. Just like I don't care how much money these guys make. Just like I don't care what these guys do in the offseason. [b']I'm a baseball fan. I care about the game on the field. For the most part, the other stuff is irrelevant to me.[/b]

 

EDIT: First sentence in response to Emmz's post.

 

I'm willing to bet there aren't a lot of Royals or Pirates fans who have the same "focus only on the field" mentality. I don't think it is a coincidence that such a brasen lack of caring comes from someone whose team is never out of contention or more than 6 months from a multiple hundred-million FA signing.

 

On one hand you make it very clear that you just don't give a s***, none of this stuff matters. On the other hand you say all you care about is the game. You put up your Yankee fanhood like a shield. Like most Yankee fans it deludes you into believing there is something rightous about what you're doing. Kind of like a bullfighter.