Red Sox Put in Waiver Claim on Nats SS Guzman

[Dojji]

Bottom line is Guzman is an upgrade over the current scrubs the Sox are using at SS. Rather than phone it in with Green and Woodward' date=' the Sox at least now have a serviceable SS.[/quote']

 

Green has been a solid Whiffy McNoodlebat defensive SS who has turned in well above average defensive numbers at shortstop for the season (yes, even with the brainfart throwing errors).

 

Cristian Guzman's offensive numbers aren't enough IMHO to cover both the bloated salary and the downgrade of an already subpar defensive infield.

[Dojji]

Haven't you been saying that the only predictor of future success is futrue success. You can't say that some numbers that are an upgrade aren't a predictor of future success but the ones that really aren't and upgrade are a predictor

 

Yes, but you also can't put forward the years of past performance you like, then turn and discount the ones that contradict you. That's called "cherry picking." my position, while possibly wrong, is at least honest. You are stretching the facts a bit to make your point.

 

The only way to use past results to predict future ones is to use the WHOLE body of work. Otherwise all you're doing is setting yourself up for an undesirable result.

[The_Destroyah]

Haven't you been saying that the only predictor of future success is futrue success. You can't say that some numbers that are an upgrade aren't a predictor of future success but the ones that really aren't and upgrade are a predictor

 

????? :dunno:

 

EDIT:nvm haha I think I understand what you were saying now...

[P3dro1a15]

Yes, but you also can't put forward the years of past performance you like, then turn and discount the ones that contradict you. That's called "cherry picking." my position, while possibly wrong, is at least honest. You are stretching the facts a bit to make your point.

 

The only way to use past results to predict future ones is to use the WHOLE body of work. Otherwise all you're doing is setting yourself up for an undesirable result.

Not using his past performance as a reason to make this move, using Green and Lowrie's current performance as reason to make this move, he is a proven MLB SS, who granted isn't a consistent All-Star caliber SS is in my opinion good enough. I guess we will just have to see what happens if they get him and how he preforms, that's really all we can do

[Dojji]

Not using his past performance as a reason to make this move' date=' using Green and Lowrie's current performance as reason to make this move, he is a proven MLB SS, who granted isn't a consistent All-Star caliber SS is in my opinion good enough.[/quote']

 

The numbers I see, the benchmarks I use, tell me Cristian Guzman is NOT good enough.

 

I guess we will just have to see what happens if they get him and how he preforms, that's really all we can do

 

Which is my point.

[P3dro1a15]

????? :dunno:

 

EDIT:nvm haha I think I understand what you were saying now...

Just saying that if you don't believe past performance is a good predictor then don't worry about past stats whether they prove your point or not

[Dipre]

2010 SS FA class.

 

Shortstops

Orlando Cabrera OAK

Bobby Crosby OAK

Adam Everett DET

Alex Gonzalez * CIN

Khalil Greene STL

John McDonald TOR

Marco Scutaro TOR

Miguel Tejada HOU

Jack Wilson * PIT

[P3dro1a15]

The numbers I see, the benchmarks I use, tell me Cristian Guzman is NOT good enough.

 

 

 

Which is my point.

Yeah I know but what we have right now absolutely sucks, we would almost be better having beckett hit for Green, Lowrie and Woodward. Either way hope it works out as do you even if you aren't on board with it since we all just want to see the Sox do well!! Hypothetical question: what if he does help us this year and we do make a run deep into the playoffs and he preformed better than you thought, would that 8 million next year be that bad even if he doesn't preform as well?

[redsoxrules]

2010 SS FA class.

 

Shortstops

Orlando Cabrera OAK

Bobby Crosby OAK

Adam Everett DET

Alex Gonzalez * CIN

Khalil Greene STL

John McDonald TOR

Marco Scutaro TOR

Miguel Tejada HOU

Jack Wilson * PIT

 

that's full of fail

[The_Destroyah]

2010 SS FA class.

 

Shortstops

Orlando Cabrera OAK

Bobby Crosby OAK

Adam Everett DET

Alex Gonzalez * CIN

Khalil Greene STL

John McDonald TOR

Marco Scutaro TOR

Miguel Tejada HOU

Jack Wilson * PIT

 

looks like some decent names in there. I do like Tejada, Scutaro has done well and O-Cab I like.

[P3dro1a15]

that's full of fail

Think I would take Guzman over any of them except maybe Wilson, but doesn't he have a option for next year?

[Dipre]

Think I would take Guzman over any of them except maybe Wilson' date=' but doesn't he have a option for next year?[/quote']

 

Jack.Wilson.Sucks.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I like Tejada as a DH more than a SS. But we already have a DH, soooooo...

[P3dro1a15]

looks like some decent names in there. I do like Tejada' date=' Scutaro has done well and O-Cab I like.[/quote']

Forgot about O cabrera, do like him but don't think hes the answer either. Think our roster will have fail at SS for the next 2 seasons unless e swing a trade

[P3dro1a15]

I like Tejada as a DH more than a SS. But we already have a DH' date=' soooooo...[/quote']

How old is Tejada? 36 or so

[Dipre]

I think the only point is this:

 

Maybe it's only marginally, but Guzman can:

 

Run better.

 

Hit better.

 

Field better.

 

Than both Green and Woodward.

 

You can make a case for Green defensively, but he brings NOTHING offensively.

[redsoxrules]

How old is Tejada? 36 or so

 

His REAL age is probly 45

[The_Destroyah]

how good is Scuturo defensively?

[CrespoBlows]

I think the only point is this:

 

Maybe it's only marginally, but Guzman can:

 

Run better.

 

Hit better.

 

Field better.

 

Than both Green and Woodward.

 

You can make a case for Green defensively, but he brings NOTHING offensively.

 

Field better? Not even close. Guzman is an awful fielder. The marginal upgrade is definitely not worth $10 million dollars.

 

Use that money to bring in Matt Holliday, or keep Jason Bay.

[redsoxrules]

Field better? Not even close. Guzman is an awful fielder. The marginal upgrade is definitely not worth $10 million dollars.

 

Use that money to bring in Matt Holliday, or keep Jason Bay.

 

I'm pretty sure the FO can do both with their billions of dollars

adding Guzman would not affect our chance or getting bay or holliday

[Dojji]

This team will be weaker now and going forward if Cristian Guzman becomes its everyday shortstop.

[P3dro1a15]

This team will be weaker now and going forward if Cristian Guzman becomes its everyday shortstop.

You must have negative confidence in Guzman to think he is a downgrade from GREEN.

[redsoxrules]

This team will be weaker now and going forward if Cristian Guzman becomes its everyday shortstop.

 

How so?

 

Is henry broke or something?

[Dipre]

Field better? Not even close. Guzman is an awful fielder. The marginal upgrade is definitely not worth $10 million dollars.

 

Use that money to bring in Matt Holliday, or keep Jason Bay.

 

So you contend that we will not need to bring in a SS for '10?

 

I told you, if you can make that point for me, i will immediately relinquish my point.

 

Another thing, Christian Guzman has better range at short than Green does.

 

His arm is more accurate, so that's why i said you make a case for Green.

 

And i HATE to sound like Gom, but i've seen an awful lot of Guzman over the years, and i have to say it's not even close in terms of range at the 6 position.

[THE ARS]

So give 'em Joshua Papelbon and make it good. For that amount of money they won't be looking for a huge return of talent.

 

 

Man, you think like Bill Veeck.

 

"We have just traded Guzman to the Red Sox for Papelbon. He will make his first start in a Nationals uniform THIS SUNDAY! GET YOUR TICKETS TODAY! BE THE FIRST TO SEE PAPALBON WITH THE NATS!"

[P3dro1a15]

How so?

 

Is henry broke or something?

Yeah I know 8 million might be a lot for Guzman who isn't incredible but I'm pretty sure we have pretty damn deep pockets.

[Dojji]

You must have negative confidence in Guzman to think he is a downgrade from GREEN.

 

I have negative confidence in Guzman's glove, and for $8M a guy has to be the complete package, or at leas something resembling one.

[Dojji]

Yeah I know 8 million might be a lot for Guzman who isn't incredible but I'm pretty sure we have pretty damn deep pockets.

 

Deep is not infinite.

[P3dro1a15]

I have negative confidence in Guzman's glove' date=' and for $8M a guy has to be the complete package, or at leas something resembling one.[/quote']

If he doesn't cost us games by throwing the ball into the stands or RF i'll consider that an upgrade.

[Dojji]

So you contend that we will not need to bring in a SS for '10?

 

I dunno about Crespo, but I for one have not given up on Jed Lowrie. A lost year to injury doesn't mean he can't come back strong next year.

 

and when it comes to the offseason, there are much more compelling people to trade for than Guzman, if we haven't cluttered up our roster and our budgets with the guy.

 

You trade for Guzman to compete this year and let hell worry about next year. I don't prefer that approach.