Do the Sox need to add another starter?

[BoSox21]

Lester had fairly significant growing pains as well, his record just didn't indicate that. Buchholz just flat out needs to stop over-thinking out there. Catch the ball, get the sign, throw the ball.

[Dojji]

lester's growing pains, cancer aside, weren't nearly as severe. Even while he was still underdeveloped, he had a reputation of being Teflon Jon. He got in trouble a lot but knew how to get out of trouble too.

 

If Buchholz was getting in trouble then getting out of it again I'd be defending him. Instead he gets in trouble and surrenders a crooked number.

[Dipre]

lester's growing pains, cancer aside, weren't nearly as severe. Even while he was still underdeveloped, he had a reputation of being Teflon Jon. He got in trouble a lot but knew how to get out of trouble too.

 

If Buchholz was getting in trouble then getting out of it again I'd be defending him. Instead he gets in trouble and surrenders a crooked number.

 

Could you please lay off Bucholz for 20 seconds so you can look at some of the good things from his performance?

[Dojji]

he's 24 and going through his sophomore season. I think we need to be a little beyond looking at his raw stuff at this point. He really needs to start getting it together over the next year, at least get the ERA into the 4.5 range or so.

 

If you can find a positive that's there now that wasn't there 2 years ago when he was our best prospect, I'd like to hear it. Frankly I have a hard time noticing any development at all. He reminds me an awful lot of Hansen -- great, great stuff, but will he ever turn it into results on the field?

[Dipre]

he's 24 and going through his sophomore season. I think we need to be a little beyond looking at his raw stuff at this point. He really needs to start getting it together over the next year, at least get the ERA into the 4.5 range or so.

 

If you can find a positive that's there now that wasn't there 2 years ago when he was our best prospect, I'd like to hear it. Frankly I have a hard time noticing any development at all. He reminds me an awful lot of Hansen -- great, great stuff, but will he ever turn it into results on the field?

 

Well i can because i don't have the anti-Bucholz glasses on.

 

Again, i'm honestly flabbergasted at how you can put a positive perspective on Hunter f***ing Jones and just keep wailing on Bucholz.

[Dojji]

So you can. Great. Feel free to proceed. Seriously, we're stuck with the guy so if there's good news I'd love to hear it.

[Dipre]

So you can. Great. Feel free to proceed. Seriously' date=' we're stuck with the guy so if there's good news I'd love to hear it.[/quote']

 

He's not being a f***ing baby like he was every time he got hit last year.

 

Besides that, it was ONE bad outing.

 

All he needs to do now is find his own strategy for putting away hitters so he doesn't rack up the pitch count.

 

It's not like he's giving up 5 runs every outing.

[TheKilo]

No one remembers Jon Lester circa April 2008, before the game against Halladay?

 

Let me remind you. Here are his first six starts of 2008:

 

1-2, 5.40 ERA, 37 H, 19 ER, 19 BB, 16 K, 5 HR, .301 BAA, .890 OPS against.

 

Yeah. Awesome numbers from "Teflon Jon"

[Teddyballgame10]

This is not good news about Wakefield. They need to get him back' date=' because we have 3 sacks of garbage in the last 3 rotation slots. Wakefield would be an upgrade and that says a lot. It is a little late for a trade, especially since Cliff Lee got moved and Roy Halladay was available. I think we will soon be looking at Buchholz like Yankee fans have been looking at Hughes and Kennedy, but instead of seeing Johan Santana every time they take the mound, we will see Halladay every time Buchholz takes the mound.[/quote']

 

You and me both.

 

Dan Bard had to spend time in the head shrinker's office during his meltdown in 2007 for that matter' date=' and look where HE is today.[/quote']

 

Could you please lay off Bucholz for 20 seconds so you can look at some of the good things from his performance?

 

Bucholz has let 180 men on base in 108 IP.

[SCM33]

Well i can because i don't have the anti-Bucholz glasses on.

 

Again, i'm honestly flabbergasted at how you can put a positive perspective on Hunter f***ing Jones and just keep wailing on Bucholz.

 

I agree with that, our eyes tells us the stuff is there. Not sure if its a confidence thing, because he has shown us the control as well in the past, as well as in the minors. Has to be a confidence issue he is having.

[Dipre]

I agree with that' date=' our eyes tells us the stuff is there. Not sure if its a confidence thing, because he has shown us the control as well in the past, as well as in the minors. Has to be a confidence issue he is having.[/quote']

 

100% behind you on this post (wow we've agreed twice in less than a week).

 

Here's the Dipre "What Buch needs to be succesful" formula.

 

1) Throw strikes over the plate: You're a power pitcher, you don't need to nibble, you're not Kenny Rogers out there. If a guy was way late on the fastball pump it in the strike zone again.

 

2) Throw that changeup in any situation and any count: It's your out pitch, so why go Curveball when in a bind?

 

3) Throw the curveball for strikes: Keep the curveball on the strike zone instead of the ground, and hitters won't sit fastball or changeup because the hammer will be in the back of their minds.

[TheKilo]

I will disagree with one thing in your post, his curveball is his out pitch, it's his best pitch, and he needs to throw it more.

 

He's been only using his fastball and his change the last few starts, he needs a 3rd pitch to keep hitters honest. He needs to throw the curve more.

 

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/104173/buchholzfollowthrough.gif

[Dipre]

I will disagree with one thing in your post, his curveball is his out pitch, it's his best pitch, and he needs to throw it more.

 

He's been only using his fastball and his change the last few starts, he needs a 3rd pitch to keep hitters honest. He needs to throw the curve more.

 

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/104173/buchholzfollowthrough.gif

 

I strongly disagree, not because of his career trends, but because right now the changeup is the pitch besides the fastball he can throw for strikes.

 

Thus, as of right now, his out pitch is the changeup.

[TheKilo]

But historically, his curveball has been his best pitch, and when he can't throw that for strikes, he struggles the most.

[Dipre]

But historically' date=' his curveball has been his best pitch, and when he can't throw that for strikes, he struggles the most.[/quote']

 

Which has been every time he's been called up except for the no-hitter day?

[TheKilo]

Not entirely true.

 

He wasn't awful in April last year. He's struggled since he split that fingernail and went down to Pawtucket.

 

i won't speculate if that injury caused him to completely lose the feel for his curveball or if their tinkering with his mechanics made him lose it, but something happened to his curveball and it needs to come back.

[Dipre]

Not entirely true.

 

He wasn't awful in April last year. He's struggled since he split that fingernail and went down to Pawtucket.

 

i won't speculate if that injury caused him to completely lose the feel for his curveball or if their tinkering with his mechanics made him lose it, but something happened to his curveball and it needs to come back.

 

He had it in the minors.

 

 

Seems to be a confidence thing, since he's purposely throwing it out of the zone.

[TheKilo]

His K rate hasn't been as good this season as season's past, and I think the lost curveball is a big part of that.

 

If he finds that pitch again, he'll be fine because I do think the FB command is improved.

 

Lester took his lumps, Clay is taking his.

[Dipre]

His K rate hasn't been as good this season as season's past, and I think the lost curveball is a big part of that.

 

If he finds that pitch again, he'll be fine because I do think the FB command is improved.

 

Lester took his lumps, Clay is taking his.

 

Again, the stuff is there.

 

Whoever says that changeup is not f***ing filthy is delusional.

 

Even worse, he makes righties look like A hitter on it, and that's saying a lot.

 

Not bad for a third pitch.

[jacksonianmarch]

Guys, throwing a curveball is not what will make Buchholz better. Everytime you have an electric stuff rookie coming to the bigs, their problem is ALWAYS fastball command. And it is with Buchholz as well. If he locates 95mph to the corners, then he can at least be an average major leaguer. If the then starts to locate his offspeed stuff, then he will be something more.

[Dojji]

Actually I kinda agree with Jacko. We know the offspeed stuff is there, he'll succeed when he can put the heater where he wants to put it. Once his fastball is effective his offspeed stuff will be far more effective than it is right now.

[Dojji]

No one remembers Jon Lester circa April 2008, before the game against Halladay?

 

Let me remind you. Here are his first six starts of 2008:

 

1-2, 5.40 ERA, 37 H, 19 ER, 19 BB, 16 K, 5 HR, .301 BAA, .890 OPS against.

 

Yeah. Awesome numbers from "Teflon Jon"

 

In a small sample size.

 

In the first two years of his career Lester was something like 11-2 despite a cumulative ERA in the high 4's. As bad as he looked sometimes in those outings he put the team in a position to win.

[BSN07]

I agree, I think it's FB command. Also FB confidence. He doesn't seem to have any of it. Lester had the same issue, so it's not insurmountable.

 

Also I don't care much for his game plan so far in his starts. What I mean is, he doesn't save anything. He shows every batter everything he has the first time through. Making him look dominant. Then by the 2nd or 3rd time through the order everyone knows what hes got, sits on certain pitches and Tee's off on him. He needs to stick to FB/CU or FB/CB first time through. That way he's got something different to show them the next time. And then the third time it's a guessing game. That will help him get later into games. Pitch a little more to contact. If he does that. The Sox are in good shape.

[BoSox21]

It's definitely fastball command. Buchholz needs to have hitters respect the fact that he can locate his fastball down in the zone and on the corners so that his off-speed stuff becomes that much more effective. Otherwise, they just sit on the changeup or wait for a hanging curveball. Getting back to the Lester comparisons though, he had the same problems with fastball command and leaving his s*** up in the zone. It's a case of giving big league hitters too much respect.

[TheKilo]

Again, the stuff is there.

 

Whoever says that changeup is not f***ing filthy is delusional.

 

Even worse, he makes righties look like A hitter on it, and that's saying a lot.

 

Not bad for a third pitch.

 

I'm not saying his change isn't a plus pitch. It is. I'm just saying the curve is better.

[TheKilo]

In a small sample size.

 

In the first two years of his career Lester was something like 11-2 despite a cumulative ERA in the high 4's. As bad as he looked sometimes in those outings he put the team in a position to win.

 

Wins? Really? That's what we're going to use?

 

I chose that sample because it was the first MLB starts of a post-cancer Jon Lester (I know he started a few games in Sept. but his first real opportunity at being given a starting job was in 2008).

 

Even your boy Teflon Jon has had starts where he struggled. Why can't Clay struggle at the big league level? Why is it indicative of his mental makeup, or why is it proof that Clay won't be as successful as Lester?

[Dipre]

The fastball is being thrown for strikes by Clay, but his lack of command of his secondary pitches makes hitters look fastball and get it.

 

You can't get by only throwing your fastball in the zone consistently, and as the curveball comes along and he gets confident in his changeup, the fastball will look that much more formidable.

[Dipre]

I'm not saying his change isn't a plus pitch. It is. I'm just saying the curve is better.

 

Lol it wasn't a snarky comment directed towards you.

 

Just pointing out his change is awesome.

[BSN07]

The agent for Yadel Marti, Yasser Gomez and Juan Yasser tells ESPN.com's Jorge Arangure Jr. that the three Cubans have all been declared free agents. Marti and Gomez defected in December and a few weeks later their agent, Jaime Torres, said his clients were big-league ready. Now the bidding can begin...

 

I know he's untested. But anyone think the Sox could add him for depth for the stretch run? He is supposed to be a decent pitcher. He's probably closer to 32 then 29(), but he may be worth a shot. He has to have as much upside as any other FA pitcher right?

[a700hitter]

The $10+ million of low risk moves on Penny and Smoltz have been anything but low risk. They carry a combined record of 9 wins 9 losses with an ERA around 6.50. It was a risk having them in the rotation. Their suckiness is the reason why the Sox are in second place.