7/26 vs. John Smoltz

[TheKilo]

It turned out to be ********.

 

I read that the Guardians turned the Sox down on Buch for V-Mart.

 

I read the Sox turned down the Buchholz for Vmart swap and then when the Sox countered with Bowden/Masterson/+ the Guardians rejected that.

[Dipre]

I read the Sox turned down the Buchholz for Vmart swap and then when the Sox countered with Bowden/Masterson/+ the Guardians rejected that.

 

That's the one i read as well.

 

But honestly, how much sense does it make to trade either of your minimum-making 1-2 pitchers for a guy whose maybe only slightly better, if better at all, and makes around 20 times what either of them make?

[TheKilo]

That's the one i read as well.

 

But honestly, how much sense does it make to trade either of your minimum-making 1-2 pitchers for a guy whose maybe only slightly better, if better at all, and makes around 20 times what either of them make?

 

What?

[Dipre]

What?

 

lulz.

 

I meant Kershaw and Chad make the league minimum.

 

Lee makes 6 mill this year, and will get a raise next year.

 

6 mill= 20X the league minimum.

 

So why trade either of them for Lee?

 

That would be a marginal upgrade.

 

It'd make much more sense to simply acquire Martinez by himself in a different package.

[TheKilo]

Martinez would play first and his bat is better than Loney's right now, plus he could spell Russell Martin and keep him fresh.

 

I wouldn't make that deal if I was LAD either but it's not like it wouldn't be a fit.

[Dipre]

Martinez would play first and his bat is better than Loney's right now, plus he could spell Russell Martin and keep him fresh.

 

I wouldn't make that deal if I was LAD either but it's not like it wouldn't be a fit.

 

Again, Martinez is the fit.

 

So why deal for both when you can get Martinez by himself.

 

It's not like the Guardians are desperate to package them together, seeing as they have significant value by themselves.

[TheKilo]

Because a Loney or Martinez swap isn't going to get it done, they would need to include either Kemp or one of their young pitchers.

[Dipre]

Because a Loney or Martinez swap isn't going to get it done' date=' they would need to include either[b'] Kemp or one of their young pitchers.[/b]

 

You'd rather trade either Billingley or Kershaw?

[TheKilo]

You'd rather trade either Billingley or Kershaw?

 

If it gets you Martinez and you don't lose anything on the pitching side? Maybe.

 

Dodgers could be in full GFIN mode the next two years with Manny under contract, Lee's deal expires at the end of next season too.

[Dipre]

If it gets you Martinez and you don't lose anything on the pitching side? Maybe.

 

Dodgers could be in full GFIN mode the next two years with Manny under contract, Lee's deal expires at the end of next season too.

 

But that's the whole point.

 

Even if they are going for it, you'll seriously give up 5 or 6 years of ace quality pitchers for 1.5 of Lee, even if it nets you Martinez?

[TheKilo]

But that's the whole point.

 

Even if they are going for it, you'll seriously give up 5 or 6 years of ace quality pitchers for 1.5 of Lee, even if it nets you Martinez?

 

Yes?

 

Martin has been an offensive disappointment.

 

Martinez and Martin is vastly better than Loney and Martin, and I don't think you lose anything going from Kershaw to Lee.

 

I'd be very careful calling Kershaw an ace right now - I love the guy and think he can be absolutely dominant, but he's not past the injury nexus and he has been handled with kid gloves so far.

 

Lee for Kershaw right now could be a fair swap and if the Dodgers net Martinez, they're the clear favorites in the NL even if the Phillies land Halladay (which I still think they will).

[Dipre]

Yes?

 

Martin has been an offensive disappointment.

 

Martinez and Martin is vastly better than Loney and Martin, and I don't think you lose anything going from Kershaw to Lee.

 

I'd be very careful calling Kershaw an ace right now - I love the guy and think he can be absolutely dominant, but he's not past the injury nexus and he has been handled with kid gloves so far.

 

Lee for Kershaw right now could be a fair swap and if the Dodgers net Martinez, they're the clear favorites in the NL even if the Phillies land Halladay (which I still think they will).

 

It'd be even better if you could acquire Martinez without tweaking the rotation.

 

Remember, Lee had much suck as soon as 2007, so it's not like his record is impeccable either.

[TheKilo]

It'd be even better if you could acquire Martinez without tweaking the rotation.

 

Remember, Lee had much suck as soon as 2007, so it's not like his record is impeccable either.

 

They can't acquire Martinez without dealing one of their young pitchers, that's the point.

 

I don't think they make this deal, but if it's even on the table the Sox won't be able to match it, which was the entire point of my post.

 

(FTR - I'm really enjoying this discussion, it's been civil and well written)

[Dipre]

They can't acquire Martinez without dealing one of their young pitchers, that's the point.

 

I don't think they make this deal, but if it's even on the table the Sox won't be able to match it, which was the entire point of my post.

 

(FTR - I'm really enjoying this discussion, it's been civil and well written)

 

But they do have some ready-for-next year pitching in the Minors.

 

They could assemble a package like this:

 

Loney-Mcdonald-Elbert for Martinez.

 

We all know Loney, but also a near-ready high-upside starter, with a shutdown lefty reliever, which the Guardians sorely lack as well, plus an A+ high ceiling prospect?

[TheKilo]

James McDonald? He of the 5.17 ERA?

 

I don't think that's enough, middle relievers are too inconsistent and a high A lottery ticket won't be enough to seal the deal.

 

Loney is a fantastic player, one who I think is criminally underrated (and not just because I drafted him for AFL) but there's a rather large difference in his value and Martinez's.

[Dipre]

James McDonald? He of the 5.17 ERA?

 

I don't think that's enough, middle relievers are too inconsistent and a high A lottery ticket won't be enough to seal the deal.

 

Loney is a fantastic player, one who I think is criminally underrated (and not just because I drafted him for AFL) but there's a rather large difference in his value and Martinez's.

 

All i'm trying to say is they could fill the gap between the players with MiLB players without breaking up the 1-2 in their rotation.

 

I know Kershaw could flame out, but you gotta love the potential in that arm.

[TheKilo]

All i'm trying to say is they could fill the gap between the players with MiLB players without breaking up the 1-2 in their rotation.

 

I know Kershaw could flame out, but you gotta love the potential in that arm.

 

Absolutely, I think Kershaw will be Cy Young candidate as early as 2011.

 

Shapiro should lose his job if he trades Martinez without getting something of comparable upside to Kershaw. Loney ain't it.

[Dipre]

Absolutely, I think Kershaw will be Cy Young candidate as early as 2011.

 

Shapiro should lose his job if he trades Martinez without getting something of comparable upside to Kershaw. Loney ain't it.

 

What do you think is the best package the Sox could offer under the boundaries of logic to the Guardians for both Lee and V-Mart?

[TheKilo]

What do you think is the best package the Sox could offer under the boundaries of logic to the Guardians for both Lee and V-Mart?

 

The best package the Sox could offer, or the best package they'd be willing to offer?

[Dipre]

The best package the Sox could offer' date=' or the best package they'd be willing to offer?[/quote']

 

Willing, that's why i made the "boundaries of logic" statement.

[rhet]

Smoltz: "Me saying I had good stuff and I felt great is irrelevant."

 

Yeah, John, you had good stuff. But your pitching sucked.

[TheKilo]

Willing' date=' that's why i made the "boundaries of logic" statement.[/quote']

 

For Lee and Martinez?

 

I'd gladly send Buchholz, Delcarmen, Anderson, and Doubront.

[Dojji]

For Lee and Martinez?

 

I'd gladly send Buchholz, Delcarmen, Anderson, and Doubront.

 

I read somewhere they already turned down a better package on paper for Martinez alone, didn't they?

[TheKilo]

It was Buchholz for Martinez straight up.