Red Sox actively pursuing Adrian Gonzalez

[Rdsxmbnt]

Why do the Padres have to make the deal?

 

Someone just please answer that question........This defies logic, this is ridiculous, WHY DO THEY HAVE TO MAKE THE DEAL??????????

 

You just want him, so we as fans think our little s***** internet offers are good enough.

 

Lars Anderson....projects to be a Morneau type???????? Yeah on SOXPROSPECTS, a website created by REDSOX fans (btw, Morneau outperformed Anderson SIGNIFICANTLY at the same age)

 

First of all it's been widely posted on that site that the player comparisons don't necessarily represent any type of ceiling/ability level but rather a player of similar playing style.

 

And "SIGNIFICANTLY"? Morneau had a .830 OPS in AA at the same age, that's better than what Lars has done this year (though last year...) but it's not like he was a .900 OPS guy by any means. And compared to the guy we're talking about trading him for, Gonzalez, he had a .719 OPS for TEX's AA and .777 OPS for FLA's AA.

[SCM33]

Towers just released a statement' date=' "We'd prefer to keep Adrian and surround him with no talent whatsoever. We will not discuss a trade for him. This way, he can continue hitting .192 since June and cripple his trade value with each passing day. As a team going nowhere fast, we feel this is the best for Adrian, the Padres organization, and the 7 fans we have left in Petco"[/quote']

 

Yeah, Im sure those thoughts are going through Towers head.

[SCM33]

Ill say it again.

 

Adrian Gonzalez is making cheap, cheap, cheap money through 2010. Then the club has an option on him in 2011. He is the face of their franchise, hes comfortable there, why would they trade him?

 

I dont think we as RedSox fans look at these deals from the other teams perspective.

 

If I am the Blue Jays, I want at least 5 stud prospects/proven young players. If you dont meet my demands, f*** off.

 

If I am the Padres, I want even more for Gonzalez since he is younger, cheaper and signed through more seasons. If I am the Padres, I want 6-7-8 players for a younger superstar slugger making 3-4M dollars. Why would they settle for less? They are in no hurry to deal him, since he is signed through 2011. We need Gonzalez more than they need our prospects. They (Padres) are in no hurry to rebuild since they are rebuilding every year, and they have the perfect starting point in a younger superstar slugger making pennies.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4357577

 

 

Yeah, looks like I was crazy. This report echoes everything that I said a few days ago.

 

They want a shitload of prospects, a minimum of 4 or 5......so my prediction of a minimum of six players (not just prospects) really wasnt that far off. That being said, Gonzalez is not going anywhere, and it isnt a surprise.

 

He has an extremely club friendly contract.

He is young.

He is a superstar.

See you on the FA market in 2011.

[Dojji]

It's a fan forum. wishful thinking will rule.

[Dipre]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4357577

 

 

Yeah, looks like I was crazy. This report echoes everything that I said a few days ago.

 

They want a shitload of prospects, a minimum of four......so my prediction of a minimum of six players (not just prospects) really wasnt that far off. That being said, Gonzalez is not going anywhere, and it isnt a surprise.

 

He has an extremely club friendly contract.

He is young.

He is a superstar.

See you on the FA market in 2011.

 

Bucholz + Masterson + Kalish + Anderson would get it done.

 

It'll never happen though.

[SCM33]

Bucholz + Masterson + Kalish + Anderson would get it done.

 

It'll never happen though.

 

Im not sure. I think we regard Masterson a lot higher than other teams/fanbases. They would want Buchholz and Bowden as the starting point, with maybe another SP thrown in there, maybe a B level guy along with some other positional throw ins. They dont want middle relievers. Nobody trades for prospect middle relievers unless they come with the clout of a Bard. You think SD gives a s*** who Masterson is? We cant even figure out what his real value is, you think they will covet someone who still doesnt have a defined role? I dont think his trade value is all that high.

[Dipre]

Im not sure. I think we regard Masterson a lot higher than other teams/fanbases. They would want Buchholz and Bowden as the starting point' date=' with maybe another SP thrown in there, maybe a B level guy along with some other positional throw ins. They dont want middle relievers. Nobody trades for prospect middle relievers unless they come with the clout of a Bard. You think SD gives a s*** who Masterson is? We cant even figure out what his real value is, [b']you think they will covet someone who still doesnt have a defined role?[/b] I dont think his trade value is all that high.

 

Masterson would slide into the Pad's rotation the day he reaches town.

[yankeessuck013]

Yeah' date=' Im sure those thoughts are going through Towers head.[/quote']

 

I love your sense of humor.

[Dojji]

that doesn't mean they'd necessarily count for him in trade as if he was a starter. If you introduce Masterson they'll spend the entire negotiation assuring you he's a reliever no matter what their real intentions are with the guy. because that lowers his value and pushes Boston towards including more in their end of the deal. That's Haggling 101, so basic even I know it.

[SCM33]

Masterson would slide into the Pad's rotation the day he reaches town.

 

That doesnt mean he would do well, just that hes better than their already s***** pitching staff. Being better than a currect SD Padre pitcher really isnt saying much. That doesnt mean he has a lot of trade value, just that he occupies that s***** rotation slot better than the other s***** guy.

[Dipre]

That doesnt mean he would do well' date=' just that hes better than their already s***** pitching staff. Being better than a currect SD Padre pitcher really isnt saying much. That doesnt mean he has a lot of trade value, just that he occupies that s***** rotation slot better than the other s***** guy.[/quote']

 

Lol what i meant was he has no defined role HERE, almost anywhere we'd trade, he's a starter right away.

[SCM33]

I love your sense of humor.

 

Thanks haha

[Dojji]

Doesn't mean they'd be willing to pay for him as if he was a starter, not when they can spin him as a reliever and push down his value.

 

SCM is right, Masterson's trade value is not high now.

[Rdsxmbnt]

What are you even trying to say? Teams will value Masterson, he's young, cheap, and has solid upside with his plus-sinker. The Red Sox won't be telling teams what Masterson's role should be. The Red Sox no doubt approach his value with the mindset that he's most likely a starter down the line and he certainly has the skill set to be one.

 

Plus he'd a) be going to the NL and will be a sinker-baller in Petco that seems like a match made in heaven

[Dipre]

Doesn't mean they'd be willing to pay for him as if he was a starter, not when they can spin him as a reliever and push down his value.

 

SCM is right, Masterson's trade value is not high now.

 

And where exactly did i type this?

[Dojji]

And where exactly did i type this?

 

Thought you were implying it.

 

I don't think Masterson is going anywhere this deadline. Just isn't the best time to move the guy.

 

I don't think they're in a hurry to deal any of their current bullpen. We've got 6 of those guys next year and our only big concern in building the pen next year is that we'll have to pay Delcarmen, Paps and Oki a little better.

[Dipre]

Thought you were implying it.

 

I don't think Masterson is going anywhere this deadline. Just isn't the best time to move the guy.

 

What i was implying was that teams value the thought of Masterson's versatility.

[SCM33]

What are you even trying to say? Teams will value Masterson, he's young, cheap, and has solid upside with his plus-sinker. The Red Sox won't be telling teams what Masterson's role should be. The Red Sox no doubt approach his value with the mindset that he's most likely a starter down the line and he certainly has the skill set to be one.

 

Plus he'd a) be going to the NL and will be a sinker-baller in Petco that seems like a match made in heaven

 

As the second major piece in a deal for A-GON? Your dreaming. They will value him yes, but as the 3rd or 4th piece of a trade, not as one of the top two starting points.

 

You are missing the point, his trade value is low, bc he doesnt have a defined role, bc we havent found one for him yet, so that means a team dealing with us could say his value is lower than it really is, bc they see him as a middle reliever than a starter.

 

In addition, do you really see his future as a SP given his his splits as a reliever?

[Dojji]

Masterson is hardly the only sinkerballer with dramatic splits. Brandon Webb and Derek Lowe also had strong splits and struggle (relatively in Webb's case) against lefthanders. So does Fausto Carmona and Chien-Ming wang. It's not insurmountable as long as he can dominate righties adjust well enough keep from getting completely owned by LHH's.

[Rdsxmbnt]

As the second major piece in a deal for A-GON? Your dreaming. They will value him yes, but as the 3rd or 4th piece of a trade, not as one of the top two starting points.

 

You are missing the point, his trade value is low, bc he doesnt have a defined role, bc we havent found one for him yet, so that means a team dealing with us could say his value is lower than it really is, bc they see him as a middle reliever than a starter.

 

In addition, do you really see his future as a SP given his his splits as a reliever?

 

So a team approaches the Yankees and tells them Phil Hughes' value is lower because he's a MR, that's a valid approach? He doesn't have a defined role on THE RED SOX because the 5 rotation spots are filled by 2 aces, a blue chip prospect, and two veterans who aren't going to be sent to the pen for a second year player. And he doesn't have a set-up role because he's in a stacked bullpen.

 

On other teams he's easily in the rotation or even a set-up guy. Masterson has in fact been pretty solid in the pen. He blew up twice which makes his numbers look kind of mediocre but has a 2.23 ERA otherwise.

 

And yes I see him as a starter. Maybe not for us, but that's what makes him a good trading chip, because he's valued by other teams and isn't cemented into a role here (but not for a lack of talent).

[SCM33]

Lowes splits are actually reversed this year, and not as bad as you think over his career.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=lowede01&year=Career&t=p

 

Webbs splits against LH arent horrific either.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=webbbr01&year=Career&t=p

 

Mastersons splits are pretty significant this season. Lefties are hitting .315 against him with a .374 OBP. Thats pretty bad.

[SCM33]

So a team approaches the Yankees and tells them Phil Hughes' value is lower because he's a MR, that's a valid approach? He doesn't have a defined role on THE RED SOX because the 5 rotation spots are filled by 2 aces, a blue chip prospect, and two veterans who aren't going to be sent to the pen for a second year player. And he doesn't have a set-up role because he's in a stacked bullpen.

 

On other teams he's easily in the rotation or even a set-up guy. Masterson has in fact been pretty solid in the pen. He blew up twice which makes his numbers look kind of mediocre but has a 2.23 ERA otherwise.

 

And yes I see him as a starter. Maybe not for us, but that's what makes him a good trading chip, because he's valued by other teams and isn't cemented into a role here (but not for a lack of talent).

 

Ahhhhh, well actually....Phil Hughes has dominated in the minor leagues as a SP. Masterson has not, in fact his only dominating season was in the low A ball, and he was.......what? oh yeah a reliever. As a starting pitcher in the minors Masterson has been EXTREMELY average, while Hughes has been DOMINANT. Bad comparison.

 

Mastersons Baseball Cube page:

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Justin-Masterson.shtml

[Rdsxmbnt]

Ahhhhh, well actually....Phil Hughes has dominated in the minor leagues as a SP. Masterson has not, in fact his only dominating season was in the low A ball, and he was.......what? oh yeah a reliever. As a starting pitcher in the minors Masterson has been EXTREMELY average, while Hughes has been DOMINANT. Bad comparison.

 

Mastersons Baseball Cube page:

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Justin-Masterson.shtml

 

I happen to think Masterson's minor league career was quite good. First of all his High-A performance was in Lancaster, which if you recall is an extreme hitters league. Then he went to AA and for the rest of the season and then early the next season and struck out over a batter an inning, had a K/BB close to 3.0 and displayed a great GB/FB ratio.

 

As a starter in the majors he's posted a 4.03 in the AL East in close to 90 innings in just his first two years. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a 3.80 ERA SP in the NL RIGHT NOW.

[SCM33]

Look, Im not saying hes junk or nothing, but hes certainly no Phil Hughes.

 

Hes good, I know hes good, I dont want him to go, but I think his only role right now is RHH reliever. That is not a knock or anything, since hes damn good at it. The original conversation/debate was about his trade value and I dont think it is as high as others see it. That is not taking anything away from him....hes just not a prospect like Buchholz or Bowden in terms of trade value.

[yankeessuck013]

San Diego has reportedly reconsidered, according to ESPN's Buster Olney (subscription required). The Padres are now open to dealing both Gonzalez and closer Heath Bell if they believe it will help the team in the long-term.

 

San Diego's front office has spent the past day evaluating talent from other organizations that have expressed interest in striking a deal -- including the Red Sox, who have asked about the availability of A-Gon -- and began listening to offers for their first baseman and closer on Wednesday.

 

http://www.nesn.com/2009/07/padres-open-to-dealing-gonzalez.html

[TedWilliams101]

While I'd absolutely LOVE to land Gonzalez, I still think pitching is this teams #1 priority. We do not have a legitimate #3 guy. Penny has just been too inconsistent to take that role. I'm still hoping for Halladay.

[Ellsy]

It's nice to dream but Gonzo is so cheap (and I'd argue perhaps best value in the league) that the Padres can actually afford him. So, he's relatively young, he comes for less than 5 mil at the moment, he can hit 35 HR, he's the fanbase's only bright spot in a lineup as dry as a desert and of course, he's a hometown boy. No chance we get him.

 

To add, like it's already been said- I don't think it's a priority as much as it's a luxury so to clean the farm team for a luxury when we could go out and get something we need(like a top 3 starter) is not very smart.

 

Thinking about it now, the Padres will probably check out the market to see what he can give them(because a package of good prospects will help them much better than a crap team with one star long term) but the fact that he's so cheap indicates that there's not going to be much urgency.

[Dojji]

Might as well talk about trading for Zach Greinke because we need to stabilize our rotation. Wouldn't half love it but it's unlikely to happen this year.

 

Now a trade for Gil Meche on the other hand... maybe that could get done.

[BSN07]

Might as well talk about trading for Zach Greinke because we need to stabilize our rotation. Wouldn't half love it but it's unlikely to happen this year.

 

Now a trade for Gil Meche on the other hand... maybe that could get done.

 

Greinke? Jesus and some think I'm a out there. Considering he's the Ace and the GM said he would not deal his core players(Greinke, Meche, Gordon, and a couple others), I highly doubt it. To get Grenike any team would have to seriously over pay. I think Greinke is is a great pitcher. Not so sure he could handle Boston. Guys with social disorders aren't usually the best fit.

[Dojji]

That was... kinda my point. Greinke and Gonzalez are in similar situations, great players on very bad teams that are unlikely to be moved in the immediate future.