Nady and Marte trade revisited

[jacksonianmarch]

So, we are now about a month out from the trade, and I have to say that the Pirates have gotten a pretty damn good deal. Take a look at this....

 

Jose Tabata recommited himself after the trade. He is hitting .415 with a 1.069OPS with the same amt of homers and only 3 less EBH in a fifth the ABs.

 

Dan McCutchen has averaged 6+IP per start, has a WHIP of 1.10, has a 4/1 K/BB as well as a lower BAA in his 6 starts in the Pirates org

 

Ross Ohlendorf is averaging 6.5IP per start, has a 4/1 K/BB and a WHIP of 1.2 in 5 starts in AAA for the Pirates

 

Jeff Karstens has averaged 7IP per start in his 4 starts, has an ERA of 2.25 and has a WHIP of 1.08 for the big club.

 

If Tabata recommits himself for good, then this is a solid deal for Pittsburgh. Karstens and McCutchen profile safely to stay in the back of their rotation, Ohlie will likely end up in their pen and Tabata could be a solid OFer for yrs to come. Obviously, this deal will be evaluated in time, but the early returns look good for both teams.

[Jayhawk Bill]

So, we are now about a month out from the trade, and I have to say that the Pirates have gotten a pretty damn good deal. Take a look at this....

 

Jose Tabata recommited himself after the trade. He is hitting .415 with a 1.069OPS with the same amt of homers and only 3 less EBH in a fifth the ABs.

 

Dan McCutchen has averaged 6+IP per start, has a WHIP of 1.10, has a 4/1 K/BB as well as a lower BAA in his 6 starts in the Pirates org

 

Ross Ohlendorf is averaging 6.5IP per start, has a 4/1 K/BB and a WHIP of 1.2 in 5 starts in AAA for the Pirates

 

Jeff Karstens has averaged 7IP per start in his 4 starts, has an ERA of 2.25 and has a WHIP of 1.08 for the big club.

 

If Tabata recommits himself for good, then this is a solid deal for Pittsburgh. Karstens and McCutchen profile safely to stay in the back of their rotation, Ohlie will likely end up in their pen and Tabata could be a solid OFer for yrs to come. Obviously, this deal will be evaluated in time, but the early returns look good for both teams.

 

One might criticize the small sample size, though.

 

Through yesterday, Karstens and Nady had each earned 1.7 wins since the trade--that's superstar performance for both players. Marte has been a tiny bit (0.2 wins) below replacement level, so thus far, at the MLB level, Pittsburgh is ahead.

 

One of the things that happens with small samples for pitchers, though, is that pitchers allow many more or fewer runs because of how hits are clumped and how balls in play are fielded. Let's look at selected stats for Karstens and Marte:

 

[table] Stat | Karstens | Marte

ERA | 2.25 | 10.13

DER | .784 | .619

LD% | 22.5% | 22.7%

K/G | 3.8 | 10.6

xFIP | 5.09 | 4.93 [/table]

 

Excepting ERA and the Defensive Efficiency of fielders behind him--and there's nothing in the line drive rate to suggest that a whopping DER difference is reasonable--it looks as if Karstens has pitched roughly as well in the NL Central as Marte has done in the AL East. Given the league differences, I'm not sure that Karstens is really doing much better...

 

...but the key, of course, is whether Tabata can ever be a MLB star. We'll see.

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, he's showing power now that he's been traded.

[das11209]

Well' date=' he's showing power now that he's been traded.[/quote']

 

Where would you guys be without Nady?

[jacksonianmarch]

An interesting note on this deal.

 

George Kontos and Phil Coke were supposed to be the other two instead of Karstens and McCutchen. Well, both of those guys have been filthy since the deal.

 

Kontos 38.1IP 32H 11ER 42K 10BB

 

Phil Coke was changed to the pen. Now he's throwing a bit harder, 92-94 and has made it to the bigs. Over his last 13G, 13IP 8H 2BB 11K. He has gone from organizational filler to potential lefty reliever next yr

[CrespoBlows]

An interesting note on this deal.

 

George Kontos and Phil Coke were supposed to be the other two instead of Karstens and McCutchen. Well, both of those guys have been filthy since the deal.

 

Kontos 38.1IP 32H 11ER 42K 10BB

 

Phil Coke was changed to the pen. Now he's throwing a bit harder, 92-94 and has made it to the bigs. Over his last 13G, 13IP 8H 2BB 11K. He has gone from organizational filler to potential lefty reliever next yr

 

wow rly good prospects!

[jacksonianmarch]

Kontos is still a prospect. Coke isnt IMO since he's 26. But he truly is trying to carve out a spot in the yankee pen next yr

[ARod2212]

Coke has looked good, I like him to challenge for a spot next year.

[Mr Crunchy]

the dagger was the farnsworth for irod deal

farnsworth was finally pitching well for the yanks and they dumped him for s***,irod cant play anymore.

karstens has pitched very well and why he wasnt as valued as kennedy tells me that something is definitley wrong in the yankee scouting system...

marte has been f***ing awful since the deal was made but he did get david ortiz out once.

this again shows how the yanks react to boston and not the other way around,they got embree ,mike stanton mike myers and a slew of other lefty has beens just to deal with ortiz..

10+ era from marte?

Nady has been a beast but the yanks didnt need offense,they needed pitching and still do.

[TheKilo]

Yankees : Red Sox :: Damaso Marte : Eric Gagne

 

Except, you know, for the whole World Series thing.

[26 to 6]

the dagger was the farnsworth for irod deal

farnsworth was finally pitching well for the yanks and they dumped him for s***,irod cant play anymore.

karstens has pitched very well and why he wasnt as valued as kennedy tells me that something is definitley wrong in the yankee scouting system...

marte has been f***ing awful since the deal was made but he did get david ortiz out once.

this again shows how the yanks react to boston and not the other way around,they got embree ,mike stanton mike myers and a slew of other lefty has beens just to deal with ortiz..

10+ era from marte?

Nady has been a beast but the yanks didnt need offense,they needed pitching and still do.

Idk if you realize, but our lack of timely hitting is the main reason we're missing not going to October. So the addition of Nady is a more-than-welcomed one. But I can't disagree with you much on the Farnsworth point. He was finally coming around, although at the time I didn't object much to the trade because of the status of Jorge's injury and the decreasing offense we would face, and going out to get Pudge was an effort to provide stellar defense and good offense. Well as we all know the offense hasn't been there with Pudge, and we would probably be better off with Farnsworth and Molina behind the plate. But hindsight is 20/20, and at the time the move looked good.

[TheKilo]

I agree - just like at the time, the move was the right one with Gagne.

[26 to 6]

Absolutely. I was devastated when the Sox got Gagne last year...only for things to turn out the way they did.

[ARod2212]

Marte is not Gagne in that he'll be with us next year. He struggled at the beginning, but has improved since. He'll be a big piece to the bullpen in '09

[jacksonianmarch]

There were reports that Marte had some inflammation in his throwing arm. He was only used once during a 10 day span in August (12-22) with the last week being on the shelf. Since then, he's been dominant. 1 ER in 7IP with 10K, 3H and only 1BB. This spans 10 appearances. As much gruff as he has gotten since he came here, I agree. He'll be a huge part of our pen next yr.

[BoSox21]

Absolutely. I was devastated when the Sox got Gagne last year...only for things to turn out the way they did.

 

yea...a world championship

[Mr Crunchy]

marte sucks

when your era is over 4 as a relief pitcher in the nl central your future in the a.l is the waiver wire

[jacksonianmarch]

his ERA was mid 3's in the NL central. But continue to think he sucks. We'll find out for sure next yr.

[TheKilo]

ERA might be the worst stat to use when judging a MR

[jacksonianmarch]

agreed. If the rumor is true, and Marte did have a sore elbow, then I would have to think that Marte would be very useful for 09.

[yankees228]

yea...a world championship

 

And how is that relevant to his remark about Gagne's performance after he was traded to the Red Sox?

[Mr Crunchy]

is martes era still in double digits?

you really cant tell how bad a pitcher sucks by his era,unless of course its in double digits,then its pretty f***ing clear he cant pitch.

the worst thing is they bring him in as a lefty on lefty specialist for chrissakes,tony fossas used to have sub 2 era's in that role and he'd be fighting for a job each spring,this guy is done.

4-0 in pitt

0-3 in nyc in 6 f***ing weeks and 14ip.

i'll be in fenway tomorrow and will pass the hat to see if we can get this kid a raise.

 

but he'll bounce back next year for sure.