Mitchell Report

[ORS]

Maybe the pitcher he hit off of was on the s*** too.

Forgot that, good point. And, besides, this year's postroidal HR in the playoffs off him demonstrated Nixon's ownage of Rajah was real.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

We're in agreement then. IMO, him being the leader of the investigation FORCES Mitchell to name Sox players, especially a prominent player.

 

Varitek, if accurate, fits that bill.

 

Yea the Varitek thing blows that out of the water. I believe he did it the right way in the end.

[das11209]

Honest question to you guys - are you glad to see anyone on the list? I will start with my confession.

 

Only person I am happy is exposed is Clemens - I could never stand that phoney guy. I do not want to see him going in HOF wearing a Yankee cap.

[TheKilo]

Honest question to you guys - are you glad to see anyone on the list? I will start with my confession.

 

Only person I am happy is exposed is Clemens - I could never stand that phoney guy. I do not want to see him going in HOF wearing a Yankee cap.

 

While I can understand the stance that any player named hurts the game, seeing Clemens and Pettitte on the list doesn't make me shed a tear. As stated earlier in the thread, I would have LOVED to have seen Jeter on the list, if for no other reason than to try to see how Jacko would spin it.

[Paradisecity]

He should wear a cap with a $ sign instead of a B or the NY....

[26 to 6]

Jesus this has turned into quite a disaster.

 

As for Mitchell, I think he possesses too much integrity to protect Sox players. Despite where his personal interests may lie, I think he conducted this investigation and filed the report sincerely.

 

As for Yankees, this is just heartbreaking for any Yankee fan. At this point just keep the likes of Mo Rivera, Paul O'Neill, Tino, Jeter, Bernie, and Jorgie off the list. I pray to you god please keep them OFF the list!

 

 

I've never been so anxious in my life...will it just be 2 already?

[Paradisecity]

For all of the Jeter slobberers in the world I'd like to see it, just as i love seeing Brett Farve fall on his ass, but in all honesty its just because people stroke them both so much. I think they both play the right way on and off the field for the most part, and i think it'd be bad for baseball if Jeter is on the list. I wish he'd be on it so all the Jeter slobberers would jshut the f*** up, but I hope he's not for his sake and the sake of the game.

[26 to 6]

Honest question to you guys - are you glad to see anyone on the list? I will start with my confession.

 

Only person I am happy is exposed is Clemens - I could never stand that phoney guy. I do not want to see him going in HOF wearing a Yankee cap.

At this point we may not see Clemens in the Hall of Fame with any hat.

[das11209]

While I can understand the stance that any player named hurts the game' date=' seeing Clemens and Pettitte on the list doesn't make me shed a tear. As stated earlier in the thread, I would have LOVED to have seen Jeter on the list, if for no other reason than to try to see how Jacko would spin it.[/quote']

 

Whoever invented the term spin-doctor must have been thinking of him.

[26 to 6]

Speculation:

 

2) As a reminder, David Ortiz has already said that he drank milkshakes during his amateur training in the Dominican that he now believes to have contained steroids. Also, Mike Lowell used steroids while with the Marlins under doctor's orders but without MLB Theraputic Use Exemption (TUE). He asked for a TUE before testing started in 2005; it was denied, and his stats in 2005 declined terribly.

 

Not trying to stir the pot or anything, but that would certainly be a convenient explanation. Similar to Sheffield's reasoning for using the cream.

I'm only highlighting this at this point because we're having Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS dissected, and if that's the case then we may as well erase Papi's homer off Boomer.

[das11209]

Just to make TheKilo happy:

 

A previous report by WNBC naming many prominent MLB players, including Albert Pujols and Roger Clemens, has been disputed by an MLB official who has seen the Mitchell Report.

 

Rumors have been flying all morning about the potential names that will be released, though nothing has been verified. While WNBC's reported list seems plausible, it is likely we won't know the true identities until the report is officially released at 2:00 p.m. EST.

[ORS]

That post is a bit inaccurate. Ortiz said he couldn't say for certain that they were steroid free, what with the Dominican being such an unregulated country. I know for you Yankee fans that Ortiz is the white whale similar to Kilo's desire to see Jeter on the list. Your obsession with discreditting him borders on the pathological.

 

However, I don't see all that much similarity between his possible situation and Sheffield's. According to reports, Sheff got the advice to use this stuff from Bonds. I can't believe a professional athlete raised in this country would take anything from a trainer without first questioning its contents. The same can't be said for a kid in an underdeveloped country who thought he was consuming an over-the-counter supplement. It's apples and oranges.

[Thumper]

Anyone think of Carlos Lee?

[Paradisecity]

It's apples and oranges.

 

 

I'm sure thats what Ortiz's trainer in the Dominican told him about his shakes too!

[Jayhawk Bill]

Not trying to stir the pot or anything' date=' but that would certainly be a convenient explanation. Similar to Sheffield's reasoning for using the cream. [/quote']

 

Similar, in fact, to the memory issues and lack of knowledge cited by Barry Bonds for which he's being brought up on charges of perjury...the only one being brought to trial for perjury.

 

Thus my call of "scapegoat." YMMV, of course.

 

To his credit, Big Papi made his statements voluntarily, remote from any courthouse. IIRC, he was defending the players named in the illegal BALCO testimony leaks and others rumoured to have used steroids.

[ORS]

I'm sure thats what Ortiz's trainer in the Dominican told him about his shakes too!

Well played.

[Thumper]

One hour away!

[Paradisecity]

scapegoat - noun a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place

 

Is that what Barry Bonds is doing?

 

Bearing the blame for others?

 

Suffering in their place?

[das11209]

scapegoat - noun a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place

 

Is that what Barry Bonds is doing?

 

Bearing the blame for others?

 

Suffering in their place?

 

More like taking one for the team.

[Jayhawk Bill]

That post is a bit inaccurate. Ortiz said he couldn't say for certain that they were steroid free, what with the Dominican being such an unregulated country. I know for you Yankee fans that Ortiz is the white whale similar to Kilo's desire to see Jeter on the list. Your obsession with discreditting him borders on the pathological.

 

However, I don't see all that much similarity between his possible situation and Sheffield's. According to reports, Sheff got the advice to use this stuff from Bonds. I can't believe a professional athlete raised in this country would take anything from a trainer without first questioning its contents. The same can't be said for a kid in an underdeveloped country who thought he was consuming an over-the-counter supplement. It's apples and oranges.

 

ORS, the context of Big Papi's remarks made it clear that he thought that he'd used steroids. My apologies for not having a link handy. I concur with your description--I merely add that the situation of those words within the discussion was important to their meaning.

 

I suspect, however, that LOTS of athletes take, inject or apply stuff without ascertaining what they're taking. A close acquaintance of mine works in pharmacy: people usually have no idea what they're taking, except for dosing instructions and desired effects. Athletes may be more sensitive to career risks now than they were back in the early 1990's, but before the hype over steroids in baseball I don't think that topical creams would've necessarily attracted more scrutiny from many athletes than Icy Hot would've.

 

Now, if (hypothetically) Clemens watched Canseco shoot steroids, got some himself and injected them himself, it's it little less plausible to deny that he knew that he was doing something wrong...

[Thumper]

More like taking one for the team.

 

So Barry is a team player after all... Well how about that.

[das11209]

So Barry is a team player after all... Well how about that.

 

Don't forget that it is team Balco - not Giants.

[Thumper]

Shaun Assael from ESPN says Pettitte's and Clemens's trainer gave both of them steroids. And that Clemens had more than one supply line of steroids.

[Thumper]

Don't forget that it is team Balco - not Giants.

 

The good ol' Anabolic All-Stars. How could one forget?

[Thumper]

Rob Parker's a good actor.

[26 to 6]

ORS, the context of Big Papi's remarks made it clear that he thought that he'd used steroids. My apologies for not having a link handy. I concur with your description--I merely add that the situation of those words within the discussion was important to their meaning.

 

I suspect, however, that LOTS of athletes take, inject or apply stuff without ascertaining what they're taking. A close acquaintance of mine works in pharmacy: people usually have no idea what they're taking, except for dosing instructions and desired effects. Athletes may be more sensitive to career risks now than they were back in the early 1990's, but before the hype over steroids in baseball I don't think that topical creams would've necessarily attracted more scrutiny from many athletes than Icy Hot would've.

 

Now, if (hypothetically) Clemens watched Canseco shoot steroids, got some himself and injected them himself, it's it little less plausible to deny that he knew that he was doing something wrong...

INteresting to point out that most of the players who tested positive for steroids in 2005-2006 attributed their positive tests to supplements that they didn't know contained illegal ingredients down in Latin American countries.

 

What I meant by the whole Ortiz thing is that if we're gonna pinpoint every possible instance of use, and examine the effects that it had on a particular game, season, etc that its not the fair thing to do. For all we know, if it weren't for steroid use maybe neither the Yankees or Red So would have been in the 2003 ALCS for all we know. If we're gonna attribute x number of runs to steroids, then lets be fair about it and examine all possibilities. As for Ortiz and Sheffield's scenarios being different, they absolutely are. I wasn't trying to compare them, or their motives. Just pointing out that they acknowledged possible steroid use and blamed it on not knowing. Sheffield was probably a bad example for the point I was trying to get accross, but just the first one off the top of my head. The difference between the two is that I believe Sheffield was lying, and i'm not so sure about Ortiz. He may very well have just been volunteering that information to set the record straight. But like I said, no more speculation or finger-pointing. 45 minutes from now we'll have about 80 names to gush over so i'll just leave it to that.

[das11209]

Rob Parker's a good actor.

 

Did you miss work to watch this s*** on TV?

[yankeessuck013]

john heyman says chuck knoblach and mike stanton also on the list.

[Jayhawk Bill]

More like taking one for the team.

 

More like being forced out at second base so that the go-ahead run can hopefully score from third without notice. He's not taking one for the team in the sense of a sacrifice bunt: he didn't voluntarily give himself up. He was subpoened and forced to testify. The Federal Government failed in their obligation to keep the testimony secret, and the information released had terrible damage to Bonds's public image and earning potential. Furthermore, the media spin singled out Bonds--of all of those testifying and claiming ignorance--as guilty of perjury. Yielding to public opinion, the Attorney General chose to indict Bonds--and within MLB, only Bonds--for perjury.

 

Perjury trials are comparatively rare. The verdicts handed down in Federal trials every working day strongly suggest that the judge or jury believe that somebody lied under oath. Last year there were 87,238 people charged with crimes in Federal Court. Only 62 perjury cases were brought, fewer than a tenth of a percent of all cases.* When I consider those who are lying in Federal Courts to protect murderers, drug dealers, and other heinous felons, I cannot conceive of any system under which one of the top hundred perjury trials to bring to court would be that of a guy who claimed ignorance regarding his past personal drug use. Folks, people lie about their past drug use every day...this trial is worthless, except insofar as it distracts the public from the point that the MLB and the MLBPA managed to permit rampant drug use to restore ticket sales and broadcast ratings after the mid-1990's strike. McGwire and Sosa battling to break Maris's record created enthusiasm...the less-likable Bonds, who showed what he could do, too, was made the scapegoat.

 

I see the perjury trial as a very expensive way of making Bonds a scapegoat for MLB, the MLBPA, and for other steroid abusers. I respect, certainly, those who feel otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

* Case statistics from http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/11/16/sports/s115151S09.DTL

[Paradisecity]

JHB-....since the Bonds saga has been probably the most publicized event in sports over the past few years, and also one of the most publicized courtroom events...doesn't indicting him for perjury have GREAT value to our nation (unlike the initial hearing which was a waste of taxpayer dollars, IMHO), with that value being- "Tell the truth, and don't ever lie on the stand" ?????