Kobe on fire

[Mr Crunchy]

the league was a lot different in the 60s than the 90s

different transportation and scheduling,much more physical,less teams etc..

russell never stopped wilt,he just beat him every year

 

nate thurmond had a quadruple double 1 game

oscar avgd a triple double....for the season

wilt led the league in assists 1 season

no 3 point line or jerry west may have led the league in scoring every year

different game different athletes

cant really compare the 2 eras

 

michael has his legacy

thats it

he also had the 2nd best player in the league with him in pippen,a man who really complimented his game

the years jordan was gone the bulls were still competetive but dont take houston out of the equation simply because michael wasnt there

they had akeem and clyde and otis thorpe and perrenial winner sam cassell as well as robt horry.....

all these guys were winners and im thinking akeem and houston wouldve given chicago fits with the backcourt speed of drexler and cassell and a power forward like thorpe,the mismatches houston had were vast....who knows,it never happened

chicago beat the centerless lakers sonics jazz and suns

when they played detroit lambier was essentially a perimeter player,rik smits in indiana wasnt a physical center....the only team that had some balance were the knicks who just didnt have any backcourt presence to handle either pips or jordan

ewing would get his but the other guys never stepped up and by the time larry johnson and oakley came around ewing was past prime

 

there were some epic battles but i think chicago had a break not having to play the lakers when they were the west coast champs for 8-10 years as well as avoiding any real iron in the east

[TheKilo]

There weren't any great NBA players in the 60's? News to me...

 

 

He only had to play against guys like Elgin Baylor, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Nate Thurmond, Bob Pettit, Walt Bellamy, and Willis Reed. Those were better than the big men we've had in the league for a long time.

 

The players today are leaps and bounds ahead of those guys in terms of athleticism.

[ORS]

Baylor - 6' 5"

Russell - 6' 9"

Robertson - 6' 5"

Thurmond - 6' 11"

Pettit - 6' 9"

Bellamy - 6' 11"

Reed - 6' 9"

 

Wilt - 7' 1"

 

Only two of those guys are what would be considered big men now.

[Mr Crunchy]

cowens was 6'8 when he manhandled the 7'3? jabbar in the 74 finals

id put him against any center in the league today

barkley led the league in rebounding as a 6'5 forward

rodman was another guy who owned the glass at 6'8

jordan was a guard at 6'6 but magic played all 5 positions in the 80 finals at 6'8

who out there would you take over magic johnson today??

 

allen iverson isnt 6'0 tall is he??

steve nash is the best player in the game followed by duane wade,you can make a case for either and no one could argue....is nash 6' tall?? is wade 6'4??

i dont know but theyre little guys

is steve nash more athletic than say....bob cousy was 50 years ago?? or john stockton 15 years ago??

how can we judge this fairly??

havlicek was asked how he played hard every nite with all his success

he said

""the player of the game got a free tank of gas at citgo,back then we had 30 gallon tanks,hey,it was worth 10.00 ""

 

and as i hear this i look down on the celtic bench and realize dante scalabrine is making more than the entire celtic roster did in the 60s

 

anyways

 

its not just the height

its the width

 

the game has changed so much but its the bulk not really the height that ive noticed

sampson was a 7'4 small forward,bill lambier was a 6'11 perimeter center

this was 20 years ago

 

its a different game my man

[ORS]

I'm not suggesting Wilt wasn't a special player. But, the smaller relative competition, not to mention the smaller paint area, made his height advantage have a greater impact.

[See Red]

But size is just part of the equation in basketball. When I say he's the best ever, I mean when he played, he dominated the opposition like no other player has since -- no player has come close, even. Rules were put in for the sake of competition against him. And the guy played against Bill Russell, the premiere defensive player of the time, about 12 times a year.

 

I'm 20, so I've never seen him play, I'm just going off of accounts that I've read, seen, etc. But all things considered, he dominated his time like nobody else.

 

And Kilo, you know that comparing the athleticism of guys then to now doesn't hold any water.

[TheKilo]

But size is just part of the equation in basketball. When I say he's the best ever, I mean when he played, he dominated the opposition like no other player has since -- no player has come close, even. Rules were put in for the sake of competition against him. And the guy played against Bill Russell, the premiere defensive player of the time, about 12 times a year.

 

I'm 20, so I've never seen him play, I'm just going off of accounts that I've read, seen, etc. But all things considered, he dominated his time like nobody else.

 

And Kilo, you know that comparing the athleticism of guys then to now doesn't hold any water.

 

Why though? Some of the players Wilt played against wouldn't even sniff the NBA now. Can you say that for the players today?

 

I realize comparing eras is tough, but if you don't like the athletes in the game today would have a distinct advantage, I think that's a bit shortsighted.

[redsoxrules]

well i didn't see him play myself but by looking at his career stats i find wierd that there's is a big drop off on his stats after the 65-66 season ... what happen all of a sudden that his stats dropped big time ? did he get injured?..because if he didn't why did his stats dropped big time? wich makes me think that the playing field was week and it got better

[See Red]

Why though? Some of the players Wilt played against wouldn't even sniff the NBA now. Can you say that for the players today?

 

I realize comparing eras is tough, but if you don't like the athletes in the game today would have a distinct advantage, I think that's a bit shortsighted.

 

Of course they would. The players themselves are more athletic -- fine. If every pitcher of Babe Ruth's era was alive and had the same exact 'stuff', or abilities, as they did in their prime, how many of them would even sniff the Minor Leagues? He's still the greatest of all-time. Athletes have gotten better over time -- that's common knowledge -- but there's something to the fact that nobody's ever been as dominant as Wilt Chamberlain.

 

Redsoxrules, look at all the stats. His assists went up, his FG attempts went down, and his FG percentage went up.

[jacksonianmarch]

Baseball is different though. You give Babe Ruth the same workout regimen and the same training as the guys of today and I have no doubt he dominates. Size is less of an issue in baseball, whereas in basketball it can be everything.

 

I never saw Wilt play. I saw the numbers and they are astounding. But I also saw the fact that he had trouble winning the big one against the C's. When you dominate like that, you should make the players around you better. This is what Jordan did. Yeah, Pippen was a fantastic player and having 2 play together is plain unfair. But how many big shots did guys like Kerr, Armstrong, and the like hit while Jordan and Pippen were on the court. And, you have to take into account that Jordan was one of the best defenders of all-time as well. Plus, whenever the game was on the line, Jordan either kicked it out for the game-winner or took it himself, knowing it would be 5 on 1 and still beat it.

 

When I see a guy who has the flu to the point of not being able to lift his arms in celebration, yet still taking over an NBA finals game, I know the guy is inhuman. He was amazing and I dont think I will ever see that much heart and determination, plus skill and teamwork in my lifetime. He transcended the sport.

[TheKilo]

Of course they would. The players themselves are more athletic -- fine. If every pitcher of Babe Ruth's era was alive and had the same exact 'stuff', or abilities, as they did in their prime, how many of them would even sniff the Minor Leagues? He's still the greatest of all-time. Athletes have gotten better over time -- that's common knowledge -- but there's something to the fact that nobody's ever been as dominant as Wilt Chamberlain.

 

Redsoxrules, look at all the stats. His assists went up, his FG attempts went down, and his FG percentage went up.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I just think Chamberlain's size was such a huge advantage to his level of competition that it's tough to call him the best ever.

[Mr Crunchy]

Why though? Some of the players Wilt played against wouldn't even sniff the NBA now. Can you say that for the players today?

 

I realize comparing eras is tough, but if you don't like the athletes in the game today would have a distinct advantage, I think that's a bit shortsighted.

__________________

if they were running track or weight lifting or even playing football this is a no brainer.

games that are more predicated on speed and size

baseball hoop and hockey are a bit different i feel

lets look at the miami dolphins defense from 1972

dick anderson jake scott bill stanfill manny fernandez nick buoniconti doug swift vern denherder etc.....all white men....

then from 1982 glen and lyle blackwood,baumhauer duhe betters beaucamper

 

how many white dudes were on the 92 team that hosted the afc championship game??

 

this is how the game has changed in the nfl

 

now

the nba is a different game

never mind the height factor we agree on the players getting bigger

but its the weight of the avg guy thats shocking and im not so sure that physical strength is very important to say an off guard or a small forward or a point guard

what advantage does sebastian telfair have over tiny archibald now that he can bench press 400lbs??

in the paint theres something to say for the muscle heads but outside the paint it dont really matter that much

 

on the 2007 celtics there isnt a guy on this team with the exception of paul pierce who could make their team from 40 years ago

not a 1

maybe big al....maybe and he would be at the end of the bench

look at the nuggs

melo and ai would make any team but look up and down that bench and ask yourself who couldve cracked their lineup from their old aba days when dan issell and david thompson were playing or when they were perrenial runners up to the lakers in the 80s??

there maybe a few but by and large their team then was probably better than their team now...

what about the lakers?? knicks philly houston etc...

are any of these teams better today than 25 years ago??

 

athletetic ball players are important but they dont always have the advantage

[See Red]

Baseball is different though. You give Babe Ruth the same workout regimen and the same training as the guys of today and I have no doubt he dominates. Size is less of an issue in baseball, whereas in basketball it can be everything.

 

I never saw Wilt play. I saw the numbers and they are astounding. But I also saw the fact that he had trouble winning the big one against the C's. When you dominate like that, you should make the players around you better. This is what Jordan did. Yeah, Pippen was a fantastic player and having 2 play together is plain unfair. But how many big shots did guys like Kerr, Armstrong, and the like hit while Jordan and Pippen were on the court. And, you have to take into account that Jordan was one of the best defenders of all-time as well. Plus, whenever the game was on the line, Jordan either kicked it out for the game-winner or took it himself, knowing it would be 5 on 1 and still beat it.

 

When I see a guy who has the flu to the point of not being able to lift his arms in celebration, yet still taking over an NBA finals game, I know the guy is inhuman. He was amazing and I dont think I will ever see that much heart and determination, plus skill and teamwork in my lifetime. He transcended the sport.

 

Jordan NEVER had to play the Celtics dynasty -- or a team that was anywhere near the Celtics class. We're talking about the greatest dynasty of all-time. Like I said, those Celtics had about 10 or 11 hall of famers playing on them over that stretch. He didn't win any Championships when Kareem and Magic were together in LA, when the Celtics were great in the 80's (Jordan won his first title in Bird's last year, I believe) and they he couldn't beat the Bad Boy Pistons until they started to succumb to old age -- no other team in the 90's comes close to any of those teams. Besides, Scottie Pippen was named an all-time top 50 NBA player.

[jacksonianmarch]

very true. We can argue this until the cows come home. We are both right in a sense, since e cannot pit Jordan vs Wilt. Well, we could, but Jordan would run circles around his rotting corpse.

[Mr Crunchy]

and the celtics still insist on winning games....

double ot last nite

fer chrissakes,someone tell them what the mission here really is

[jacksonianmarch]

Oden or bust!