Daisuke Matsuzaka posted by Seibu Lions

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/10/10/sports/AS_SPT_BBL_Matsuzaka_Majors.php

 

Its official now, let the bidding wars & rumor mill start churning up. ESPN radio has said the top 3 suitors are the Yankees, Red Sox & Mariners

[HeadOfSoxNation]

Hypothetically, you can only sign one pitcher...do you throw the money at Matsuzaka or Zito?

[yankeessuck013]

Time to get to work, Theo.

[yankeessuck013]

Hypothetically' date=' you can only sign one pitcher...do you throw the money at Matsuzaka or Zito?[/quote']

 

Zito will stay out West.

 

Matsuzaka is our man.

[rician blast]

Hypothetically' date=' you can only sign one pitcher...do you throw the money at Matsuzaka or Zito?[/quote']

 

your "Theoretics" apply to all but one team in MLB...the Yankees.

[MC Hammer]

Hypothetically' date=' you can only sign one pitcher...do you throw the money at Matsuzaka or Zito?[/quote']

If the Red Sox are smart they will stay far far far away from Zito.

[Mr Crunchy]

agreed with hammer

i dont think zito and the left field wall will be friendly

 

he did stick it up minnys ass

and out of the 3 of mulder him and hudson i liked him best under the gun

[HeadOfSoxNation]

I don't know, I'm just really tentative to throw big money at a Japanese import. I mean, sure...you've got guys like Ichiro and Matsui...even a lesser known guy like Takashi Saito from Texas...that have seemed wellllllll worth what was paid for them...but it seems to me like the buzz around Hideki Irabu a couple of years back was bigger than the buzz around Matsuzaka now. I'd hate to be on the buying end of another Irabu.

 

That being said...this team needs guys that can throw. And throw well. For longer than 4 innings every 5th day. If the scouts see it as worthwile and a potential superstar, I see no other option but to go for it.

[Papelbon58]

Go for Matsuzaka

[ksushi]

Matsuzaka plays with a smaller and lighter ball. Go for someone else. I dont trust it anymore.

[Cityofchampions33]

Matsuzaka is who Im wantin, I mean he was the WB Classic MVP, and is only 26 YEARS OLD. I mean talk about a full deck of aces in Beckett, Paps, Lester, and Matsuzaka if he can pull through.

[Anuj09]

Come on Theo, Work your magic to get Matsuzaka

[AirPantapas]

I hope we offer a 100million post fee, then offer him next to nothing, this way the Yankees can't get him.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

I hope we offer a 100million post fee' date=' then offer him next to nothing, this way the Yankees can't get him.[/quote']

They will just offer a 101 Million post fee...

[example1]

They will just offer a 101 Million post fee...

 

Given that its a blind bidding process they actually WONT offer 101 posting fee.

 

They won't know what the sox bid, and the sox won't know the Yankees bid. They may start with a "low-ball" number (i.e., Saibu may say "nothing less than 15 million") but beyond that its open to the highest bidder. The team that wins does NOT get that money back and then has EXCLUSIVE rights to him to either sign a deal or wait a year. Assuming Matsuzaka is so young and good right now, I'm pretty sure he'll sign any reasonable deal.

 

I want the sox to go after this guy like their lives depend on it. They can't let the Yankees out post them/out bid them over and over again.

 

C'mon Theo!

[AirPantapas]

Given that its a blind bidding process they actually WONT offer 101 posting fee.

 

They won't know what the sox bid, and the sox won't know the Yankees bid. They may start with a "low-ball" number (i.e., Saibu may say "nothing less than 15 million") but beyond that its open to the highest bidder. The team that wins does NOT get that money back and then has EXCLUSIVE rights to him to either sign a deal or wait a year. Assuming Matsuzaka is so young and good right now, I'm pretty sure he'll sign any reasonable deal.

 

I want the sox to go after this guy like their lives depend on it. They can't let the Yankees out post them/out bid them over and over again.

 

C'mon Theo!

 

I thought the only way they get the post money is if you sign the player.

[example1]

I thought the only way they get the post money is if you sign the player.

 

I definitely read somewhere that the posting fee was non-refundable once the team accepted it.

 

Whether that is correct or not I'm not sure, but it seems like a pretty sweet deal for the Seibu Lions if you ask me.

[example1]

This is a guy who threw 333 pitches in a bullpen session. He takes tremendous pride in his health and ability to throw and throw. In the majors the ability to avoid injuries is huge. He's not just a japanese favorite (a la Irabu). He's a japanese baseball icon.

 

They have a highschool tournament very much like the US has march madness (I suppose it would be a college world series/march madness cross). The entire country pays attention and its a really big deal.

 

--Anyway, at age 17 he threw a 250 pitch, 17 inning victory.

--The next day he came in in relief to hold the other team down so his team could come back from 6-runs down.

--Then he threw a no-hitter in the final

 

Could you imagine a little leaguer or college world series pitcher pitching 17 innings, being pedro-esque out of the pen the next day, then throwing a no-hitter in the final? It's unheard of.

 

All in all this guy knows how to win and get hitters out. He's got a good professional track record, a great amateur track record and would be a great addition to any team.

 

I'm skeptical that the sox will go after him, but I hope they do.

 

Straight out of High School he made the all star team for the Pacific circuit, the first rookie out of high school to get that honor.

[EvilDonut]

Id be willing to make a small donation to help get Matasuzaka.

[example1]

Id be willing to make a small donation to help get Matasuzaka.

 

Yeah, maybe we should start a Matsuzaka fund.

 

You reading this John Henry?

[AirPantapas]

So if they signed this guy the RedSox could market there team to Japan.

[example1]

So if they signed this guy the RedSox could market there team to Japan.

 

Of course they could. It would be Japan's best pitcher going up against the Japanese Babe Ruth on a regular basis, as well as Ichiro.

 

Chances are the Yankees or M's will post an absurd 60 million or something and that will be that.

[ORS]

This is a guy who threw 333 pitches in a bullpen session. He takes tremendous pride in his health and ability to throw and throw. In the majors the ability to avoid injuries is huge. He's not just a japanese favorite (a la Irabu). He's a japanese baseball icon.

 

They have a highschool tournament very much like the US has march madness (I suppose it would be a college world series/march madness cross). The entire country pays attention and its a really big deal.

 

--Anyway, at age 17 he threw a 250 pitch, 17 inning victory.

--The next day he came in in relief to hold the other team down so his team could come back from 6-runs down.

--Then he threw a no-hitter in the final

 

Could you imagine a little leaguer or college world series pitcher pitching 17 innings, being pedro-esque out of the pen the next day, then throwing a no-hitter in the final? It's unheard of.

 

All in all this guy knows how to win and get hitters out. He's got a good professional track record, a great amateur track record and would be a great addition to any team.

 

I'm skeptical that the sox will go after him, but I hope they do.

 

Straight out of High School he made the all star team for the Pacific circuit, the first rookie out of high school to get that honor.

Wonderful. Fabulous. So what?

 

Let's keep in mind that those hitters he was shutting down weren't MLB hitters. Kaz Matsui was an MVP in Japan. Hideki Matsui was hitting 50 bombs.

 

Yeah, Matsuzaka looked good in the WBC. Two ER in 13 IP. Impressive. But, because of pitch counts, he didn't go deep in games, so we didn't see how he performed with fatigue. Also, spring baseball is the time when hitters don't quite have their timing and rythm down, and none of the hitters had seen him before. And, this is while facing Chinese-Tapei, Mexico, and Cuba. Mexico had Cantu and a bunch of MLB bench players. Cuba had a couple of guys that would be MLB regulars, but it was no killer lineup.

 

I'm not saying this guy is destined to be a bust, but I'm not sure he's worth the hype right now. Missing out on him could be a mistake, but I think the risk of being stuck with a big/long contract is much stronger than the possibility of this guy becoming an MLB ace. I'm no huge Zito or Schmidt fan, but I think you know what you are getting more with these guys.

[Mr Crunchy]

who are the previously dominant japanese pitchers??

steinbrenner gave hideki irabu 12,000,000.00 and made the late nite comedy shows for 2 years because of it

tomo ohka is having a pretty good career for himself but does anyone remember he was 14-0 in pawtucket at 1 point??

hes pitching ok baseball in a semi pro league

hideo nomo i would say has had the best career of any of them,including the closer seattle had a couple years back

nomo had an awkward windup and some strange delivery points but when he threw strikes he was a great pitcher

 

none of the above really made that much of an impact where you'd mortgage your house on his success

of course the japanese game is more american than ever and the avg japanese man has gotten bigger taller and faster since we fertilized their soil with uranium

the competetion level isnt the same but its closing

 

and people

f*** the wbc and its results

based on the wbc??

adam stern is the best player in the world that i saw that week

[example1]

Wonderful. Fabulous. So what?

 

Let's keep in mind that those hitters he was shutting down weren't MLB hitters. Kaz Matsui was an MVP in Japan. Hideki Matsui was hitting 50 bombs.

 

Yeah, Matsuzaka looked good in the WBC. Two ER in 13 IP. Impressive. But, because of pitch counts, he didn't go deep in games, so we didn't see how he performed with fatigue. Also, spring baseball is the time when hitters don't quite have their timing and rythm down, and none of the hitters had seen him before. And, this is while facing Chinese-Tapei, Mexico, and Cuba. Mexico had Cantu and a bunch of MLB bench players. Cuba had a couple of guys that would be MLB regulars, but it was no killer lineup.

 

I'm not saying this guy is destined to be a bust, but I'm not sure he's worth the hype right now. Missing out on him could be a mistake, but I think the risk of being stuck with a big/long contract is much stronger than the possibility of this guy becoming an MLB ace. I'm no huge Zito or Schmidt fan, but I think you know what you are getting more with these guys.

 

So what? This guy has been a big game pitcher his whole life. That's not to say that he'll be great in the majors, but he's met every challenge that's come his way, including the olympics and the WBC. Don't BLAME him for not having played a complete major league season yet.

 

I understand your skepticism... I really do. I don't want a Mike Hampton/Carl Pavano/Tim Hudson type bust. At the same time, i don't want to watch Zito walk a bunch of guys or Schmidt's arm fall off either. I don't trust Zito as far as I could throw him (which isn't far) and Schmidt is a hopeful but he's no longer a #1 and he's considerably older.

 

Are you content to make bids on Zito and Schmidt, probably not get either and go into next year without 5 decent SPs? I'm not. It seems to me that Matsuzaka is the 'easiest' pitcher to land, insofar as all it takes is loot. With Lester's cancer, Schilling's final year, Wakefield's final year, Papelbon's questionable ability as a SP, the slim chance that either Schmidt or Zito wants to play in Boston, the liklihood that Manny is on the move for 75 cents on the dollar, it seems to me that he's as good an option as any. As someone who buys the baseball package for TV every year, watches every single game, ALSO buys the mlb.com baseball package and go to games whenever I can, I feel justified in saying that the Sox can spend some money (yes, MILLIONS of dollars) to go after the best possible players.

 

I disagree that the risk of missing out on him is necessarily smaller than the risk of getting a guy with a large contract. His track record, stamina (which you dismissed above) and ability to throw strikes should make him considerably better than a guy like Clement. At worst I think he'll be a guy who regularly throws 200 IP, has a 4 ERA or so and wins 15+ games a season. He could be better. Would you rather have AJ Burnett or Matsuzaka? Rich Harden? Andy Pettitte? Roger Clemens? He should be healthier and more long-lived than all of those guys, so I say go for it.

 

Finally, I would much rather see the Yankees have to settle for a guy like Zito (who seems to lose every big game he's in and pitches poorly against the Sox) than get an unknown potential phenom like Matsuzaka. If Matsuzaka is as good as Pettitte was in his prime, then he will likely help the Yanks to another championship and stay with them for years and years and years. OR, the sox could make a serious run at him, possibly get him and start their own dynasty of young pitchers (Beckett, Matsuzaka, Papelbon and god-willing Lester).

[a700hitter]

Hypothetically' date=' you can only sign one pitcher...do you throw the money at Matsuzaka or Zito?[/quote']Reality is that the Sox need two starters, so why should they sign only one. There's plenty of $ on Yawkey way. This is not Kansas City.

[26 to 6]

I dont want this to be taken the wrong way by anyone, but it's probably going to be a 2-team race between the Mariners and Yankees. My guess is he comes here to the Yanks. I dont think George lets the M's outbid him.

[26 to 6]

Wonderful. Fabulous. So what?

 

Let's keep in mind that those hitters he was shutting down weren't MLB hitters. Kaz Matsui was an MVP in Japan. Hideki Matsui was hitting 50 bombs.

 

Yeah, Matsuzaka looked good in the WBC. Two ER in 13 IP. Impressive. But, because of pitch counts, he didn't go deep in games, so we didn't see how he performed with fatigue. Also, spring baseball is the time when hitters don't quite have their timing and rythm down, and none of the hitters had seen him before. And, this is while facing Chinese-Tapei, Mexico, and Cuba. Mexico had Cantu and a bunch of MLB bench players. Cuba had a couple of guys that would be MLB regulars, but it was no killer lineup.

 

I'm not saying this guy is destined to be a bust, but I'm not sure he's worth the hype right now. Missing out on him could be a mistake, but I think the risk of being stuck with a big/long contract is much stronger than the possibility of this guy becoming an MLB ace. I'm no huge Zito or Schmidt fan, but I think you know what you are getting more with these guys.

Great points. You obviously don't want to get caught up in all the hype and have it turn out to be an Irabu-type bust; but at the same time it's extremely difficult to pass on him. I've followed him in Japan for a few years and he's obviously been great over there. IMO, he's a risk worth taking. Money isn't an issue for either the Yankees or Red Sox, so it's not like if it doesnt work out they'll be totally ruined.

 

I'm interested to see how much he goes for altogether, with posting and the actual contract.

[ORS]

So what? This guy has been a big game pitcher his whole life. That's not to say that he'll be great in the majors, but he's met every challenge that's come his way, including the olympics and the WBC. Don't BLAME him for not having played a complete major league season yet.

 

I understand your skepticism... I really do. I don't want a Mike Hampton/Carl Pavano/Tim Hudson type bust. At the same time, i don't want to watch Zito walk a bunch of guys or Schmidt's arm fall off either. I don't trust Zito as far as I could throw him (which isn't far) and Schmidt is a hopeful but he's no longer a #1 and he's considerably older.

 

Are you content to make bids on Zito and Schmidt, probably not get either and go into next year without 5 decent SPs? I'm not. It seems to me that Matsuzaka is the 'easiest' pitcher to land, insofar as all it takes is loot. With Lester's cancer, Schilling's final year, Wakefield's final year, Papelbon's questionable ability as a SP, the slim chance that either Schmidt or Zito wants to play in Boston, the liklihood that Manny is on the move for 75 cents on the dollar, it seems to me that he's as good an option as any. As someone who buys the baseball package for TV every year, watches every single game, ALSO buys the mlb.com baseball package and go to games whenever I can, I feel justified in saying that the Sox can spend some money (yes, MILLIONS of dollars) to go after the best possible players.

 

I disagree that the risk of missing out on him is necessarily smaller than the risk of getting a guy with a large contract. His track record, stamina (which you dismissed above) and ability to throw strikes should make him considerably better than a guy like Clement. At worst I think he'll be a guy who regularly throws 200 IP, has a 4 ERA or so and wins 15+ games a season. He could be better. Would you rather have AJ Burnett or Matsuzaka? Rich Harden? Andy Pettitte? Roger Clemens? He should be healthier and more long-lived than all of those guys, so I say go for it.

 

Finally, I would much rather see the Yankees have to settle for a guy like Zito (who seems to lose every big game he's in and pitches poorly against the Sox) than get an unknown potential phenom like Matsuzaka. If Matsuzaka is as good as Pettitte was in his prime, then he will likely help the Yanks to another championship and stay with them for years and years and years. OR, the sox could make a serious run at him, possibly get him and start their own dynasty of young pitchers (Beckett, Matsuzaka, Papelbon and god-willing Lester).

Why is Matsuzaka the "easiest" to land because all it takes is loot? Isn't that true of Zito and Schmidt as well? And, I see Matsuzaka requiring the most loot to land when you add in the length of contract he'll be seeking due to his age, agent (Boras), and posting fee. Sure, they forfeit a draft pick for either of Zito or Schmidt, but they've had so many early round extras the last two years that I don't see that as a huge issue. For the total money it would take to land Matsuzaka, they could probably get Schmidt for less commitment time and Ted Lilly or Vincente Padilla. The team needs more than one SP in my mind.

 

Don't forget to consider this either. The brilliance of his stuff is aided by the smaller, lighter ball in Japan. A bigger, heavier ball can't be thrown as hard or with as much break. Also, his brilliant command has been with a larger strike zone. I'm skeptical of his command until I see him do it with regular AL umps calling the game.

 

I'm not saying this kid doesn't have talent, but I do question the level of hype he's getting right now. Look at Irabu's numbers before he came to the MLB. They are similar to what Matsuzaka is doing now. That should be a big red flag.

[Mr Crunchy]

the red sox WILL not be in the running here

seattle the yankees and perhaps la make a run here but the way theo and henry have been operating theres just no way they get into the bidding for a japanese athlete

 

the yanks marketed matsui to a T

the mariners are owned by nintendo

the dodgers have a history with nomo

the sox??

the sox dont compete here but they'll tell you they tried