During Era of Fair Competition, 1966-75 ,Sox Were Superior to Yankees

[ORS]

I don't think so. NY is sold out pretty much every year. Plus the NY brand is also already out there. There might be an increase in revenue but NY won't get as much. Markets like Tampa Bay would feel the effect much more. i think the NY Yankee brand is pretty much maxed out right now in terms of revenue.

They are close to maximizing the revenue from their market, but there's still a lot left to pull in. New fans would fill a lot of those empty seats you see at Yankee Stadium. That won't help the gate because most of those games are sold out, but empty seats generate no concessions sales. Correct me if I'm wrong, but not every cable service provides YES. New fans will make sure they switch to watch their new team, which means more subscription premiums -- the YES subscription premiums are the cash cow for the Yankees, biggest TV market in the country.

 

The Yankees are where they are because Steinbrenner continually reinvested his own personal money into the team. Does the Twins owner do that? No, he's a billionaire who gets a revenue sharing check from George which promptly goes into his pockets. How about the KC owner?

 

The Yankees floundered in the late 80's and early 90's. being in a big market doesn't guarantee anything except a larger potential audience and fanbase. It's always up to the individual owners of the team and their dedication to the success of the organization. If the Yankees revenue stream suddenly went belly up for no reason, I'm sure George would invest his own personal money into the team to keep it a success.

 

Another example. Consider how much the Yankees are paying for the new stadium out of their own pockets ($800 million), then consider how many owners beg their states or cities to foot the whole bill. George is willing to put al his money on the table for the success of his team. If the small market owners had this mentality, maybe we wouldn't be dealing with this right now.

 

last point. How good do you feeel knowing that part of the 100 bux you just spent on a ticket, 2 hot dogs, 2 beers, and a parking pass is actually going to the pockets of a millionaire who doesn't care about putting money into the team?

And those same owners who don't spend the coin now would end up very close to the salary floor every year and rarely in contention. What wouldn't happen, however, is a situation where a team wants to win -- like George -- but is limited by the fact that their revenues, both from the team and other businesses, aren't enough to pursue premier talent.

[Jon_Papelboner]

Don't give me this ********. Oh wah, but you have so much money. Let's look at the facts:

 

-The red sox didn't want to spend 3 million more dollars on Damon.

 

-The Red Sox didn't want to spend an extra 7 million to get Abreu

 

-They were willing to spend 20 million on Roger Clemens for 3 months

 

 

Is it just me or does something not add up?

[ORS]

as far as steinbrenner goes

his cable money is more than the nl central produces in gate money

hes not a good example simply because his economic flow is in another stratosphere than the other clubs...when he pays more in luxury tax than every other payroll in baseball spends on its regular roster??

Not for the next 3-4 years. The Yankees and Mets will be exempt from revenue sharing while they build their new stadiums. There will be more FAs to hit the market without that money for the smaller clubs, and only the big boys will be able to afford them. Good news for us, I guess, but the problem will only be worse the next few years.

[ORS]

Don't give me this ********. Oh wah, but you have so much money. Let's look at the facts:

 

-The red sox didn't want to spend 3 million more dollars on Damon.

 

-The Red Sox didn't want to spend an extra 7 million to get Abreu

 

-They were willing to spend 20 million on Roger Clemens for 3 months

 

 

Is it just me or does something not add up?

Everybody has said the Sox are on the benefitting end of this system.

 

Is it just me or do you completely suck at reading?

[Mr Crunchy]

i dont think so redseat

the fact that most teams are taking a cue from oakland and the twins and locking in their young arms for long term deals is making good pitchers few and far bettween in the market during the offseason

 

think about who will be available this season

 

maybe oswalt in houston

zito in oakland but no other studs come to mind so you have every single team looking for a stud pitcher and less than 5 will be available to bid on

 

papleboner??

i love the name

is this a fantasy of yours

or have you seen the real deal as his balls slapped your chin?

[He Hate Me]

They are close to maximizing the revenue from their market, but there's still a lot left to pull in. New fans would fill a lot of those empty seats you see at Yankee Stadium. That won't help the gate because most of those games are sold out, but empty seats generate no concessions sales. Correct me if I'm wrong, but not every cable service provides YES. New fans will make sure they switch to watch their new team, which means more subscription premiums -- the YES subscription premiums are the cash cow for the Yankees, biggest TV market in the country.

 

The Yankees are drawing people in record numbers this year and have been for the last few years. We're averaging almost 50,000+ per home game. I don't think George is worrying about those few empty seats.

 

YES is a regional sports network and is free on Time Warner (I believe) and Cablevision, the two main cable operators in New York, it's also available on DirecTv as part of its regional sports package. I don't subscribe to YES, it's part of my basic TV package with Cablevision. If more people became yankee fans, they simply have to turn on their TV.

 

 

And those same owners who don't spend the coin now would end up very close to the salary floor every year and rarely in contention. What wouldn't happen, however, is a situation where a team wants to win -- like George -- but is limited by the fact that their revenues, both from the team and other businesses, aren't enough to pursue premier talent.

 

if the floor is 50 mil and the ceiling is 100 mil. I'm pretty sure they would stand a closer chance than the current $150 mil difference.

[Jon_Papelboner]

Everybody has said the Sox are on the benefitting end of this system.

 

Is it just me or do you completely suck at reading?

I didn't read the thread. I read the first post. It's true, I suck at reading stuff I haven't read.

[He Hate Me]

Not for the next 3-4 years. The Yankees and Mets will be exempt from revenue sharing while they build their new stadiums. There will be more FAs to hit the market without that money for the smaller clubs, and only the big boys will be able to afford them. Good news for us, I guess, but the problem will only be worse the next few years.

 

How much money you think the Yankees are gonna blow on FAs when we got a $800 million bill to pay? if we do pickup Zito or whoever this year it's because we have money coming off the books. The Yankee payroll will be the same or prbably less for the next 3 or 4 years.

[Mr Crunchy]

is that boy george in your avatar??

[ORS]

The Yankees are drawing people in record numbers this year and have been for the last few years. We're averaging almost 50,000+ per home game. I don't think George is worrying about those few empty seats.

 

YES is a regional sports network and is free on Time Warner (I believe) and Cablevision, the two main cable operators in New York, it's also available on DirecTv as part of its regional sports package. I don't subscribe to YES, it's part of my basic TV package with Cablevision. If more people became yankee fans, they simply have to turn on their TV.

 

If the floor is 50 mil and the ceiling is 100 mil. I'm pretty sure they would stand a closer chance than the current $150 mil difference.

YES is not free. You don't pay for it as an add-on like HBO, but you pay for it. Your subscription is called your cable bill.

 

Are you saying it's a bad thing for teams to have a better shot of winning? Yes, they will have a better shot to contend. Isn't that the point of a cap and floor?

[Mr Crunchy]

How much money you think the Yankees are gonna blow on FAs when we got a $800 million bill to pay? if we do pickup Zito or whoever this year it's because we have money coming off the books. The Yankee payroll will be the same or prbably less for the next 3 or 4 years.

 

that doesnt matter in my opinion

the cost of the stadium is defered over 100?? years or soemthing like that in a low interest loan and

the city agreed to cover ""infrastructure"" as the state of mass did for bob kraft in foxboro...

wink wink

 

their cable tv revenue will cover the note,attendence covers the payroll and concessions can be used to buy his politicians and private detectives and line his pockets.

they'll probably get into seat liscensing like they do in the nfl and perhaps they can turn that neighborhood from a flowing cess pool into a more palatable place to be after dark as they did in baltimore,cleveland and half ass did here on yawkey way...

 

there is a lot of upside for everyone involved if they do indeed clean up jerome ave and the 159th perimeter

[He Hate Me]

i dunno

with the sport dominated by latins you'd think that miami & tampa would thrive

they have the population base and the weather but they still dont draw unless boston or ny is in town and then barely at all

 

1 thing they should do immediately is end 1pm starts in miami

most of you have been to florida and understand that at 1pm in august that place is 120degrees and 100% humid and you can almost always count on a shower that makes smoke come off the field with the oppressive steam

unbearable place to watch a day game in the summer and its simply f***ing stupid to play at that hour while you have other options

 

good point about Miami. I can't understand how the hell they don't draw. Maybe it's the cookie cutter stadium they play in or maybe they don't do enough community stuff. Anyone know more about this? I mean, is it a Cuban-Dominican thing? I don't get it.

 

 

the mets sox la teams perhaps st louis and maybe philly are better examples as big markets than the yanks who are in another galaxy

chicago cleveland maybe seattle and the texan clubs are the mid levels

the rest are poor mouths

poor teams can compete once in a while and even for 3-+4 year stretches if they get lucky with their drafts trades and health but in the long run pitching costs money and if you dont pitch you dont win in the end

 

I agree with this also. The current revenue sharing program should just be called the Yankees sharing program because I don't think anyone else pays the luxury tax except the Yankees. The other clubs need to pitch in somehow.

[He Hate Me]

YES is not free. You don't pay for it as an add-on like HBO, but you pay for it. Your subscription is called your cable bill.

 

It's included on the Cablevision bill. They didnt raise prices when YES was added. There aren't people who decided to goto Cablevision simply because YES was on there. Those people were already watching the Yankees on Cablevision from when they were on MSG. All it did in effect was switch channels at no additional cost.

 

Are you saying it's a bad thing for teams to have a better shot of winning? Yes, they will have a better shot to contend. Isn't that the point of a cap and floor?

 

no. I am in favor of a floor and cap, which is why I said if there was a floor of 50 mil and a cap of 100 mil, the difference between team salaries would be only 50 instead of 150. I'm not sure how you're getting that from what I said.

[ORS]

I didn't read the thread. I read the first post. It's true, I suck at reading stuff I haven't read.

Not surprising. Although, I doubt you even read the first post because your response is a bit out of LF in terms of relevance to what he said. What's more likely is you read the title and make a knee-jerk reaction post. You know what they say, fools rush in...

[He Hate Me]

that doesnt matter in my opinion

the cost of the stadium is defered over 100?? years or soemthing like that in a low interest loan and

the city agreed to cover ""infrastructure"" as the state of mass did for bob kraft in foxboro...

wink wink

 

It may be deferred for the public funds, but as far as I know, that 800 mil is coming straight out of the team's coffers.

 

their cable tv revenue will cover the note,attendence covers the payroll and concessions can be used to buy his politicians and private detectives and line his pockets.

they'll probably get into seat liscensing like they do in the nfl and perhaps they can turn that neighborhood from a flowing cess pool into a more palatable place to be after dark as they did in baltimore,cleveland and half ass did here on yawkey way...

 

there is a lot of upside for everyone involved if they do indeed clean up jerome ave and the 159th perimeter

 

I think thats a pretty accurate statement. Though I don't know if they're gonna do seat licensing.

[ORS]

It's included on the Cablevision bill. They didnt raise prices when YES was added. There aren't people who decided to goto Cablevision simply because YES was on there. Those people were already watching the Yankees on Cablevision from when they were on MSG. All it did in effect was switch channels at no additional cost.

Are you suggesting that YES is provided free of charge?

 

No. I am in favor of a floor and cap, which is why I said if there was a floor of 50 mil and a cap of 100 mil, the difference between team salaries would be only 50 instead of 150. I'm not sure how you're getting that from what I said.

I thought you were against a cap, what with your comments about the owners pocketing money. Sorry for the mix up.

[Mr Crunchy]

my buddy had a business meeting in atlanta last month

he called to see if they had any tickets for the met?? series and was told there were seats

 

he gets out the chart for turner field and his seats were 20 rows up from the braves dugout and list price was 25.00 per seat

 

this is a team who won 15 straight divisions and cant sell primo seats like these for dirt cheap money

 

outside the northeast and the mid west i worry about the games long term health

as i said yesterday

the yankees never won it all with a payroll over 100M

the sox are the only team to win it all with a 100M payroll or better

spending doesnt guarantee anything but a paper chance to be competetive

[rician blast]

YES is not free. You don't pay for it as an add-on like HBO, but you pay for it. Your subscription is called your cable bill.

 

 

if i recall correctly when COmcast picked up YES here in central ct. our bills were impacted by $2 per month specific to the YES addition. not sure what the charge is now, if you could isolate it, but still YES represents a channel and an associated charge that I never asked for or wanted.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

I think that it's impossible to judge what kind of following a team would have if they were to ever become competitive. A spending floor on the owners front would basically be a high risk/higher reward investment. I spent 2 years in Florida very close to the Tampa area...and often, I found myself just thinking that it just wasn't a baseball town. But, then you think about it, they've never had a baseball team to be excited about. Then, when the Rays went from terrible horrible no good very bad to only in the cellar because they play in a tough division, attendance increased steadily. You can see that Tampa issssss a sports town, judging by the success of the Lightning and the Bucs, I honestly feel that if some money was pumped into the DRays program, baseball could be a huuuuge success in the Tampa area. Tickets are cheap, so that wouldn't prevent people from going. I'm convinced that the only thing preventing large attendance at Tropicana Field is the lack of a decent product put on the field night after night after night. Even if they do decide to start spending money, they're never going to contend with the Yanks or the Sox financially, and it'll be tough to get the first relatively high profile FA to go there...but once he does, I feel like it would be a domino effect. The Rays do a lot of fan friendly things at their games also, which I think would also be a big draw. All too often, teams get away from that kind of stuff and cater only to the hard-core baseball fan...which is fine, for fans like you and I. However, there are other people....families, wives, young children that aren't being brought up in the "like baseball or you're not my son" (haha) mentality that I was...and these people make up a LARGE portion of any baseball teams target demographic.

 

Bascially, I feel if the Tampa Bay Devil Rays put a 2nd or 3rd place team on the field...the people will come (Ray), the people will come.

[Papelbon58]

i don't think it is any type of sign that the Sox were better for those 10 years. We might have had a better front office and 2 good drafts or something, not that big of a deal.

 

To make a point I have made before: Even if it does favor the Yankees, baseball should not have a salary cap. It is the most pure American sport. Period. Remember, what hurts the Yankees the most hurts us the second most.

[He Hate Me]

Are you suggesting that YES is provided free of charge?

 

No I'm saying that my cable bill is 60 bux a month with or without YES

 

I thought you were against a cap, what with your comments about the owners pocketing money. Sorry for the mix up.

 

heh that's cool. I don't think a cap would solve everything but it defnetely wouldn't be as effective without a salary floor to force the cheapskates in KC and Minnesota to cough up some of that money

[ORS]

No I'm saying that my cable bill is 60 bux a month with or without YES

Ok, don't see what that has to do with anything, but Ok.

[He Hate Me]

Ok, don't see what that has to do with anything, but Ok.

 

Your claim was that I had to pay extra for YES in the form of my cable bill. I'm arguing that I and other Yankee fans were already paying for our cable bills before YES got picked up by Cablevision, AND that we did NOT have to pay extra because of it.

[CrespoBlows]

Your claim was that I had to pay extra for YES in the form of my cable bill. I'm arguing that I and other Yankee fans were already paying for our cable bills before YES got picked up by Cablevision, AND that we did NOT have to pay extra because of it.

 

Probably not premium subscribers, but those who had basic subscription had to pay an extra $2 or $3 dollars a month.

[ORS]

Your claim was that I had to pay extra for YES in the form of my cable bill. I'm arguing that I and other Yankee fans were already paying for our cable bills before YES got picked up by Cablevision, AND that we did NOT have to pay extra because of it.

I never said you had to pay extra. My claim is that YES gets money from every household that gets that channel, whether it be through the cable bill, upgrade packages, what have you.

[Mr Crunchy]

I never said you had to pay extra. My claim is that YES gets money from every household that gets that channel, whether it be through the cable bill, upgrade packages, what have you.

 

you may not see an extra charge for YES on your bill but rest assured

youre paying for it my friend

just as we here in boston are paying for nesn

[He Hate Me]

Probably not premium subscribers, but those who had basic subscription had to pay an extra $2 or $3 dollars a month.

 

YES is considered a basic channel if I recall correctly.

[Mr Crunchy]

nesn is in our basic package now too

but the cable bill went up accordingly

[He Hate Me]

I never said you had to pay extra. My claim is that YES gets money from every household that gets that channel, whether it be through the cable bill, upgrade packages, what have you.

 

This statement makes sense. But with respect to our discussion about new avenues of revenue for the Yankees with increased interest in baseball overall, this doesn't relate, as the Yankees would, according to this statement, get money frOm every Cablevision subscriber even those who don't want the YES network (since it is part of the basic package).

 

wow...

[CrespoBlows]

nesn is in our basic package now too

but the cable bill went up accordingly

 

NESN reaches about 3.8 million people. The YES Network probably reaches ~18 million.