Teams Needs/Unloads by G. Edes

[Cityofchampions33]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2005/12/04/going_over_the_lineups/

 

I would not mind at all if the Sox went after RH Scott Linebrink or LF J.C. Romero, he's actually pretty solid and would tehrefor fill up our bullpen with potential closers and future stars. Another interesting choice for the rotation is Jason Marquis, he seems like he can handle AL lineups a bit and is still young, and he is available, that is if we don't get Zito.

[ksushi]

We're not going to get Zito. I hope we don't get Zito, knowing what beanes price tag will be. Unless beane seriously under values what people will be willing to give for Zito (and he most likely won't) than I don't see any red sox fan being happy with a trade that would bring us back Zito. We would need to give up a papelbon or a lester and we would need to give up a Delcarmen or a Moss or an Arroyo or even two of those three to go with either Lester or Papelbon. that won't be a happy day in red sox nation.

 

I think that if we sent Wells and Shoppach to San Diego for Linebrink that could be a big deal, but I don't know if that is enough to land linebrink in the sox bullpen for next season, it may be, if not its close and might not need much more to do it.

 

Right now I actually am at ease with the Manny situation. I don't think he will be going to the Mets, mainly because I think Minaya is afraid of losing his job with all the moves hes already made this season if the Mets don't win the east. If he sells their future and lands manny and the expectations go even higher, he might lose his job and his first born child when the mets flounder around .500 next year because hey... they're the mets. Unless something unexpected happens in the next few days, Manny will either be on the Red Sox or the Angels, and if hes on the Angels I think that means that Ervin Santana will be on the Red Sox. This would make me quite a happy boy. We might not have his production this year and maybe not next, i'm not sure who is in the free agent pool for hitters next year, but I do know that with that Cash freed up, we will add a substancial bat in the next year or so via trade or free agency.

[ksushi]

Sorry to double post, I know its annoying, but...

 

Buster Olney sort of makes my point here about Zito

 

The free-agent market is terrible, with the suspect A.J. Burnett remaining as the most prominent starter available, and there aren't many 28-year-old healthy former Cy Young winners being floated in trades. Now that Beane has Loaiza in hand, and has an ace-in-waiting in Rich Harden, he's in perfect position to tell other teams: Look, we'll trade you Zito, but you have to give us exactly what we want. And if you don't want to do that, there will be 10 other teams that will.

[Cityofchampions33]

There have also been talks of a Manny- Soriano trade going on which in my mind doesn't make sense, because Pedroia is coming up. Even so, if we were to move him to LF like they say, i think he'd have a lot of trouble out tehre defensively, especially with the wall.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Soriano playing left field wouldn't be too bad. It's just a wall. Anybody who plays baseball should be able to play a ball of the wall without too much trouble. If you can't, you shouldn't be playing baseball.

[ksushi]

Soriano won't play outfield. He wouldn't in texas, he won't here. And yes playing off of a wall is very hard, and no, not everyone can do it. He won't be the answer in left field at all. I do not like Soriano and he won't be a red sox, i guarentee it.

[Cityofchampions33]

Idk what do you guys think, Soriano or Abreu and Burrell, IMO I'd want tot alk with the Phillies more.

[MC Hammer]

I know people seem to have a hard on for Soriano for some reason but I dont want him. Sure he has a nice bat but he wants to play 2B and he's horrible at it. I don't want a liability at 2B. Give me Tony G at second this year and then possibly him splitting time with pedroria the next year.

 

I'm not in love with Abreu and Burrell either.

[Cityofchampions33]

Well, Abreu and Burrell will both gain some power hitting in Fenway Park, especially Pat Burrell, who is a dead LF Homerun hitter if you can see his hit chart at MLB.com.

[yagmaster]

Well, Abreu and Burrell will both gain some power hitting in Fenway Park, especially Pat Burrell, who is a dead LF Homerun hitter if you can see his hit chart at MLB.com.

 

Is there a possibility that we could get both Burrel and Abreu? I've seen it in posts on this website, but where are people getting it from? I would love to have both if we gave up Manny, but I don't think it's that likely.

[Sizzlin22]

SO long as we get as close to equal vale back as possible, and trade to him an NL I'm totally fine with trading Manny. I like the idea of Soriano though.

[example1]

Well, Abreu and Burrell will both gain some power hitting in Fenway Park, especially Pat Burrell, who is a dead LF Homerun hitter if you can see his hit chart at MLB.com.

 

Who said anything about Abreu and Burrell for Manny? I got the impression that a) the Phillies weren't interested in a straight up Manny for Abreu deal, and would therefore seem less likely to like Manny for Abreu and Burrell. Manny would refuse a trade to Philly.

 

About Soriano, I hate his OBP and I hate his defense at 2B. I like his speed and his power.

 

There are two reasons/scenarios that would encourage me to make this deal.

 

1) if we can trade Clement and Nixon to Philly for Abreu, and:

2) if we can trade Wells and Mirabelli to San Diego for Otsuka and Loretta.

 

Then Soriano wouldn't be needed to replace Manny, a combination of he and Abreu would have to replace manny. Loretta would be an upgrade at 2B for a year and Pedroia would back up. There are always injuries too. That would give us an infield of Lowell-Renteria -Loretta-Youkilis, OF of Soriano, Damon (hopefully) and Abreu. Tek behind the plate, with a pitching staff including Foulke, Timlin, Mota, Hanson (eventually), Delcarmen, Otsuka and Dinardo. Those guys would be a solid relief corps behind Schilling, Beckett, Papelbon, Wakefield, and Arroyo (I think Lester will be up for a spot-start early in the season, then appear regularly by June).

 

That's a solid, solid team I think. I know its kind of a long shot (I doubt philly will part with Abreu... they're not the marlins for crying out loud), but it isn't beyond possibility.

[Cityofchampions33]

Who said anything about Abreu and Burrell for Manny? I got the impression that a) the Phillies weren't interested in a straight up Manny for Abreu deal, and would therefore seem less likely to like Manny for Abreu and Burrell. Manny would refuse a trade to Philly.

 

About Soriano, I hate his OBP and I hate his defense at 2B. I like his speed and his power.

 

There are two reasons/scenarios that would encourage me to make this deal.

 

1) if we can trade Clement and Nixon to Philly for Abreu, and:

2) if we can trade Wells and Mirabelli to San Diego for Otsuka and Loretta.

 

Then Soriano wouldn't be needed to replace Manny, a combination of he and Abreu would have to replace manny. Loretta would be an upgrade at 2B for a year and Pedroia would back up. There are always injuries too. That would give us an infield of Lowell-Renteria -Loretta-Youkilis, OF of Soriano, Damon (hopefully) and Abreu. Tek behind the plate, with a pitching staff including Foulke, Timlin, Mota, Hanson (eventually), Delcarmen, Otsuka and Dinardo. Those guys would be a solid relief corps behind Schilling, Beckett, Papelbon, Wakefield, and Arroyo (I think Lester will be up for a spot-start early in the season, then appear regularly by June).

 

That's a solid, solid team I think. I know its kind of a long shot (I doubt philly will part with Abreu... they're not the marlins for crying out loud), but it isn't beyond possibility.

 

Well, if you read the Philly paper quotes in the otehr trhead, you would know tehre's a possibility that the trade can happen. Also we can still do the Wells for Loretta/Otsuka trade, which would give us maybe the best lineup in the Majors if we re-sign Damon.

Also Manny wouldn't veto it because he already confirmed he would accept any deal out of Boston. IMO Abreu and Burrell is much better than Soriano, this way we have a solidifed OF that doesn't include Nixon, who gets injured every other week and we have 2 more power threats.

 

1) Damon

2) Renteria

3) Ortiz

4) Abreu

5) Burrell

6) Lowell

7) Varitek

8) Loretta

9) Youkilis

 

Also I agree, if we made the Wells trade we would have our bullpen set up for next year and almost have a log jam there. Foulke, Mota, Timlin, Otsuka, Hansen, Delcarmen is all around solid and almost leaves no space for a long reliever.

[example1]

Well, if you read the Philly paper quotes in the otehr trhead, you would know tehre's a possibility that the trade can happen. Also we can still do the Wells for Loretta/Otsuka trade, which would give us maybe the best lineup in the Majors if we re-sign Damon.

Also Manny wouldn't veto it because he already confirmed he would accept any deal out of Boston. IMO Abreu and Burrell is much better than Soriano, this way we have a solidifed OF that doesn't include Nixon, who gets injured every other week and we have 2 more power threats.

 

1) Damon

2) Renteria

3) Ortiz

4) Abreu

5) Burrell

6) Lowell

7) Varitek

8) Loretta

9) Youkilis

 

Also I agree, if we made the Wells trade we would have our bullpen set up for next year and almost have a log jam there. Foulke, Mota, Timlin, Otsuka, Hansen, Delcarmen is all around solid and almost leaves no space for a long reliever.

 

 

I went and looked for the philly newspaper quotes in the other threads and didn't find any. I found people affirming the potential Manny for Abreu deal, and complaining that Abreu and Burrell would be more fair. I didn't see anyone quoting anything about Burrell.

 

In any case, this article states that there are reports that Manny would reject a trade to Philadelphia:

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/baseball/13306575.htm

 

Everyone knows Manny would reject trades. He may get so frustrated in not getting traded that he would choose to go to Tampa Bay or Milwaukee, but don't bet on it.

 

It makes no sense for Philly to trade Abreu and Burrell for Manny. None. They would be trading a combined 56 HR and 219 RBI last year for Manny, who costs more, only plays one position (rather than 2), and takes up payroll.

[Cityofchampions33]

They're gettin Manny a shrink to try and get him to stay

[riverside sluggers]

The Providence Journal is reporting there were unconfirmed reports that the Yankees have offered Damon a 3 year contract worth $39 million. If this is true, this surely something the Sox should counter with. At the most it should be 4 years/$40-45 million

 

Ken Rosenthal who has been correct on about just every offseason move has said the Red Sox are expressing late interest in 38 year old closer Trevor Hoffman.

[MC Hammer]

2) if we can trade Wells and Mirabelli to San Diego for Otsuka and Loretta

I don't really see the point in going out and getting Loretta. If we want a veteran 2B then we just keep Tony G. I don't understand why you would want to trade for an aging 2B who really only had 2 good seasons. IMO Loretta is way overrated.

[ahhchon]

Idk what do you guys think, Soriano or Abreu and Burrell, IMO I'd want tot alk with the Phillies more.

 

show me one credible source that the phillies will trade burrell and abreu for manny, that would be a stupid f***ing trade for the p's.

 

people need to realize that you can't believe everything you read. dan i can't write for shitnessy can post that there is a rumor (with no credible source) that the sox want to trade manny to the yankees for a-rod. does this mean that everyone should be talking about it? hell no, it's complete utter bs. unless it's on espn.com espnnews, coming out of luc's mouth or maybe rotoworld you shouldn't believe an ounce of it. espn, the world leader in sports is always the first to hear about these things.

 

a manny trade is tough, but can happen as long as the sox don't expect the world in return unless they are eating at least 5 mill of that contract. he's a great ball player but no one is going to give up a well above average and an above average player for a very well above average player. it's stupid, unless the sox having contract for breakfast ,lunch and dinner

john

[MC Hammer]

people need to realize that you can't believe everything you read.

Well obviously you can't but who's to know whats credible and what isn't?

 

Who'd have thought we'd get Josh Beckett? I knew I thought it was just another rumor when I heard it.

 

We're discussing these things becasuse who's to know whats real and what isn't? Plus theres not really anything to talk about but rumors.

[ahhchon]

hammer,

 

there is nothing wrong with discussion, i'm in favor of it. but when people start fantasizing about trading ie: mirabelli and nixon for derek lee just because it was "rumored" in some paper i begin to wonder how stupid some sox fans are..

 

john

[MC Hammer]

hammer,

 

there is nothing wrong with discussion, i'm in favor of it. but when people start fantasizing about trading ie: mirabelli and nixon for derek lee just because it was "rumored" in some paper i begin to wonder how stupid some sox fans are..

 

john

I gotcha now. Guess I just misunderstood.

[Beckett95]

heres a positionaly breakdown by Tony Massaroti

 

Entering the winter meetings, here is a position-by-position look at the Sox.

 

Starting pitching

 

After acquiring Beckett, the Sox have seven pitchers who could be classified as starters: Beckett, Curt Schilling, Matt Clement, Tim Wakefield, Jonathan Papelbon, David Wells and Bronson Arroyo. Baseball sources continue to indicate Wells will be traded, perhaps by the end of this week, most likely to the San Diego Padres.

 

What the Red Sox get in return for Wells could depend on several variables. Outfielder Dave Roberts could be a target regardless of how the Damon talks turn out, though the Sox traded Roberts last winter because they did not want to keep him on their bench. Second baseman Mark Loretta and reliever Akinori Otsuka also are possibilities, though Otsuka’s availability might depend on whether the Padres re-sign Trevor Hoffman.

 

Also, don’t be surprised if Clement’s name pops up in trade talks. The Milwaukee Brewers showed some interest earlier this offseason and have first baseman Lyle Overbay to offer.

 

Relief pitching

 

Two years ago, remember, the Red Sox signed Keith Foulke to a guaranteed four-year, $24 million contract, an average of $6 million per year. That annual average of $6 million now is the approximate going rate for a good set-up man, which makes the acquisition of arbitration-eligible Guillermo Mota ($2.5 million in 2005) all the more important.

 

For now, the Sox have Foulke, Mike Timlin, Mota and Chad Bradford all under contract in addition to 25-year-old Jermaine Van Buren, whom the club recently acquired in a trade with the Chicago Cubs. If the Sox elect to use Arroyo or Papelbon out of the bullpen, the primary needs are a left-handed specialist (Mike Myers?) and additional depth.

 

Infield

 

Think of it in these terms: If the Sox trade Ramirez — and if they do not get a true No. 3 or No. 4 hitter in return — the demands on Mike Lowell increase significantly. Regardless, as was the case a year ago, this is a Sox group that projects to have relatively little power.

 

For now, the most obvious need is a second baseman, though the Sox could use a tandem of Alex Cora and Dustin Pedroia there if necessary. The club still has interest in Tony Graffanino.

 

The Sox also want a left-handed complement to Kevin Youkilis at first base. Travis Lee and John Olerud are among the free agents available who fit that role.

 

Outfield

 

With regards to Ramirez and Damon, here is the key thing to remember: After the Beckett deal, the Sox’ projected payroll stands at roughly $117-$118 million, which leaves them about $17-$18 million to spend. If the Sox re-sign Damon, that number shrinks considerably. If the Sox trade Ramirez, it grows significantly, though the players obtained would eat up a chunk of the balance.

 

Should the Sox revisit trade talks with the Marlins, Juan Pierre is an option if the Damon talks fail to produce a deal. The Los Angeles Angels seemingly would have the most to offer if they are serious about obtaining Ramirez, particularly with Sox officials making it clear they will not trade Ramirez solely to meet his wishes.

 

Given that last reality, of course, there still is every chance the Sox could keep him.

 

[riverside sluggers]

otherwise slow news day thus far, which we know could change very quickly. One note of interest, the Boston Herald has reported Johnny Damon and Scott Boras will be meeting with the Sox GM by Committe to try and hash out a deal with one another. Boston previously offered 3 years/$28 million, which Im sure they will be offering something more appealing than that.

 

fingers crossed

[ksushi]

We're discussing these things becasuse who's to know whats real and what isn't? Plus theres not really anything to talk about but rumors.

 

 

I would rather sit here and play general manager and talk about rumors than complain in game threads during the season. I love the offseason, this is a happy day for me. Most are during the winter. I personally don't see anything wrong with drawing speculation off of rumors. Its what we do. Just the same way we speculate the out come of a game before it happens, we try to forsee the teams success before the season starts and we play GM. Its great.

[Cityofchampions33]

They said that Damon, his f***in hot wife, and Boras met with teh Sox eprsonally, though Luccino denies all reports.

[yankeessuck013]

They said that Damon, his f***in hot wife, and Boras met with teh Sox eprsonally, though Luccino denies all reports.

 

they are meeting later tonight face-to-face

[example1]

I don't really see the point in going out and getting Loretta. If we want a veteran 2B then we just keep Tony G. I don't understand why you would want to trade for an aging 2B who really only had 2 good seasons. IMO Loretta is way overrated.

 

Perhaps because Loretta has a career AVG that is .301 (vs. .268), an OBP that is .365 (vs. .336) and a SLG that is .408 (vs. 394). He's a better hitter.

 

Tony G's time in BOS was just about the best offensive period he has had as a pro.

[Cityofchampions33]

Perhaps because Loretta has a career AVG that is .301 (vs. .268), an OBP that is .365 (vs. .336) and a SLG that is .408 (vs. 394). He's a better hitter.

 

Tony G's time in BOS was just about the best offensive period he has had as a pro.

 

thats true, he could turn out and have an OCab season offensively, Mientkiewicz didn't turn out that good either. I'd point out something bad in Roberst but he's just the man.

[guapo34]

show me one credible source that the phillies will trade burrell and abreu for manny, that would be a stupid f***ing trade for the p's.

 

Actually it would be a stupid trade for the Red Sox. Those two are owed 8$ million more than Manny. In a recent herald article Massorati esimated the Sox have $17-18 million they can spend on free agents. That leaves us with $10 million to resolve our 1b/2b/cf issue and not enough money to sign Johnny Damon.

 

Also, Burrell and Abreu play in a stadium thats almost as friendly to hitters as coors field. Remember Mannys opposite field "shot" there? Abreau and Burrell had .805 and .806 road OPS respectively. Fenway might help Burrell over and average stadium, not philly's, but it would probably hurt Abreau.

 

a manny trade is tough, but can happen as long as the sox don't expect the world in return unless they are eating at least 5 mill of that contract. he's a great ball player but no one is going to give up a well above average and an above average player for a very well above average player. it's stupid, unless the sox having contract for breakfast ,lunch and dinner

john

 

 

This ignores the fact that Mannys contract isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. If Furcal is worth $13 million, Mannys gotta be worth at least $17 million. Also considering that there are no free agents left and if a teams only chance to add a hitter like Manny is to trade for Manny. I don't see anything wrong with asking for package for players that are at least as good. If Manny does get traded, and i still think theres a chance he doesn't, I think its gonna be for a lot more than people are expecting.

[Beckett95]

from Hartford Courant

The Red Sox are also talking to the Pirates about a trade involving Trot Nixon for either Kip Wells or Mark Redman

 

mark redman for trot nixon??? are u serious.. the guys carreer era is 4.50