Usc/nd

[See Red]

No it's not...

 

If not for three blown calls...

 

1. The spot of the ball following the fumble.

2. USC's Assistant coach Brennan Carroll signalling for a timeout near the endzone. There was no call despite USC having no timeouts and Carroll being well outside of the coaches box. I wasn't aware of this one until Weis brought it up... but it's a missed call none-the-less.

3. Not calling Reggie Bush for aiding the ballcarrier when he obviously pushed Leinart in.

 

... Notre Dame wins that game, or has a chance to win that game in OT.

 

Should Notre Dame have put themselves in that position? No -- but that doesn't mean the refs missed calls. You say it's a cop-out because you have nothing else and I'd assume you'd like to think you have a chance of winning this disagreement.

 

1. You seem to be the only one that considers the spot of the ball correct. Almost everyone I've heard talk on sports talk radio, ESPN, Fox Sports Net, seems confident enough with the spot of the ball being incorrect that they say Pete Carroll is lucky for having rejected instant replay.

2. Don't even try to argue this one.

3. He didn't push him in, you say? Then what was Reggie Bush referring to when he said, "I just shoved him in there as hard as I could". What was Matt Leinart talking about when he said Reggie Bush told him, "You're welcome, man. I pushed you in".

 

Notre Dame played good enough to, at the very least, have that game go into OT -- and yes, that "you shouldn't have been in that situation" is a cop out because they WERE in that position, whether they should've been or not and it doesn't excuse poor officiating.

[ORS]

You should stop crying, if your team BLOWS IT you blame the offical, thats a cop out. Maybe if ND had a defense they wouldnt have had it come down to an officals call. Is this how you act in public, if something doesnt go your way you bitch and whine about it, sounds like a typical ND fan. When my Canes lost to Ohio State in the Nat. Champ game, the Pass Int. call on 4th down was questionable, but we didnt bitch, because we had many chances to put them away and we didnt it's our fault we lost.

 

 

 

 

OOOO, did you think of that all by yourself or did you get help?

No one is crying about it. Mentioning a fact, such as the fact that the refs blew the call (just like they did in the Miami game), isn't bitching, whining, moaning, or crying. It is what it is, discussing how a call changed the outcome of the game. Unfortunately, you aren't intelligent enough to tell the difference between discussion and whining.

 

ND isn't even my team. I didn't care who won that game, and as a fan, that last quarter was one of the most exciting I have seen in quite some time. Despite the lack of emotional interest, I still find it bothersome that the officials determined the outcome of that game. To deny that they did is utter stupidity.

 

I stand by my original assertion; you should refrain from thinking.

[BoSox84]

No it's not...

 

If not for three blown calls...

 

1. The spot of the ball following the fumble.

2. USC's Assistant coach Brennan Carroll signalling for a timeout near the endzone. There was no call despite USC having no timeouts and Carroll being well outside of the coaches box. I wasn't aware of this one until Weis brought it up... but it's a missed call none-the-less.

3. Not calling Reggie Bush for aiding the ballcarrier when he obviously pushed Leinart in.

 

 

1. I didnt say they spotted it correclty, I said the ball didnt go out at the 3.

2. Your right I wasnt disputing this

3. Agian your right not disputing this

 

My point is if ND stopped USc on 4th and 9 this is all a non issue

 

Unfortunately, you aren't intelligent enough to tell the difference between discussion and whining.

 

I can tell you have no argument because you resort to attacking me, and rather poorly I might add. My point is not that the officals blew the Call, my point is agian, since I need to say things twice for you to understand them, is that if ND stops USC on 4th and 9 this is a mute point. Your right a 61 yard pass completion to a WR who had a scratched cornea and was having double vison, didnt determine the outcome of this game.

[MANNYHOF24]

ND didnt get robbed because USC would have still kicked a field goal if it was spotted at the 3, and probally would have one in O.T, allthough Reggie Bush pushing Linehart in the End Zone was cheap

[See Red]

ND didnt get robbed because USC would have still kicked a field goal if it was spotted at the 3, and probally would have one in O.T, allthough Reggie Bush pushing Linehart in the End Zone was cheap

 

There's a difference between losing in regulation and going to OT. And who's to say they "probably would've won in OT"... Notre Dame had outplayed USC practically the entire game and even Pete Carroll said he didn't want to go to OT because he didn't think his defense was capable of stopping the Notre Dame offense.

[ORS]

I can tell you have no argument because you resort to attacking me, and rather poorly I might add. My point is not that the officals blew the Call, my point is agian, since I need to say things twice for you to understand them, is that if ND stops USC on 4th and 9 this is a mute point. Your right a 61 yard pass completion to a WR who had a scratched cornea and was having double vison, didnt determine the outcome of this game.

Clearly, you cannot read and comprehend. I have conceded that if ND stops USC on 4th and 9, then they win the game. Just like if they had tackled Bush more frequently they win the game. Or if they had converted on 3rd down and gone on to score a TD it wouldn't have resulted in a missed FG. You can deconstruct the entire game and "woulda, coulda, shoulda" it to death, but that doesn't change the fact that the last play resulted in a missed call by the refs. No matter how you try to spin it, a call was missed.

 

I'm not attacking your intelligence; I'm drawing attention to the lack of it.

[thewarriorscode12]

Clearly, you cannot read and comprehend. I have conceded that if ND stops USC on 4th and 9, then they win the game. Just like if they had tackled Bush more frequently they win the game. Or if they had converted on 3rd down and gone on to score a TD it wouldn't have resulted in a missed FG. You can deconstruct the entire game and "woulda, coulda, shoulda" it to death, but that doesn't change the fact that the last play resulted in a missed call by the refs. No matter how you try to spin it, a call was missed.

 

I'm not attacking your intelligence; I'm drawing attention to the lack of it.

Yeah, true. They should have stopped them on 4th and 9. They shouldn't have put themselves in that situation. But the fact of the matter is they did, and they got robbed at the very end. It works both ways.

[BoSox84]

Clearly, you cannot read and comprehend. I have conceded that if ND stops USC on 4th and 9, then they win the game

 

I'm not attacking your intelligence; I'm drawing attention to the lack of it.

 

 

Now your being hypocritical. You said talking about the 4th and 9 is copping out. If they dont allow the 61 yard pass, this never happens. I said the refs missed the Bush call. If some one disagrees with you, you attack their intelegence, very classy and says alot about you as a person.

[ORS]

Now your being hypocritical. You said talking about the 4th and 9 is copping out. If they dont allow the 61 yard pass, this never happens. I said the refs missed the Bush call. If some one disagrees with you, you attack their intelegence, very classy and says alot about you as a person.

I don't think you know what hypocrisy means. When I mention the 4th and 9 play, I use it and other plays as examples of things that could have changed the outcome of the game, but then I qualify those instances with this...

You can deconstruct the entire game and "woulda, coulda, shoulda" it to death, but that doesn't change the fact that the last play resulted in a missed call by the refs.

Which explains why, IMO, that a deconstruction of the game is irrelevant.

 

When a game hinges on a blown call, then the call should get some of the blame for the outcome (without and crying, whining, or bitching). It's not petulant; it's what happened. When you say "they shouldn't have let them get 61 yds on 4th and 9", that is when Captain Obvious swoops in and says, "NO s***, SHERLOCK". But, regardless of what you think they "should" or "shouldn't" have done, they lost the game because the refs screwed up. You cannot change that fact.

[ARod2212]

Refs get that call right, and Notre Dame wins. Regardless of the 61 yard gain. That's what matters.

[See Red]

That's such a dumb argument.

 

If Notre Dame scores on every possession, it's not an issue, either -- the bottomline is that they didn't... they WERE in that position... and it WAS an issue.

[ARod2212]

Derek Jeter hits a walkoff homerun to win the ALCS against Boston. They find out his bat was corked right afterwards. They still award Jeter the homer and the Yankees go to the World Series.

 

Do you blame the umpires for blatantly messing up the call, or the Red Sox for "making it that close".

[yankeessuck013]

Derek Jeter hits a walkoff homerun to win the ALCS against Boston. They find out his bat was corked right afterwards. They still award Jeter the homer and the Yankees go to the World Series.

 

boy... that's a fantasy

[ARod2212]

boy... that's a fantasy

I know, Jeter would never cork his bat. But I digress.

[BoSox84]

It seems to me, though from what I hear from Red seat Im to stupid to know how to breathe, we are all in some kind of agreement. The refs screwed the call, and ND shouldnt of allowed the 61 yard pass on the 4th down play.

[ARod2212]

Theoretically, they shouldn't have allowed a yard. If they did their job all game, they would have had a shutout. That's not the discrepency, that is a credit to USC. But when they win the game by cheating (one of this message board's favorite terms in reference to Alex Rodriguez) that is something else. It isn't a credit to their talent. And had the correct call been made, they lose that game right there. If I'm not mistaken a 10 second runoff occurs on an offensive penalty if the clock is running and that team is trailing in the last 2 minutes. Without their timeouts, USC has lost, right there.

 

If USC scores right there unaided, then whatever, amazing comeback by them. I'll put them in the category of the Cardinals last night or the Red Sox last year. But by bending the rules, they go into that A-Rod slap play category. Good try, but should pay for it.

[See Red]

Missing one call is understandable -- but missing three isn't.

 

All in all, it's a shame the refs weren't paying attention because they missed a hell of a finish.

[eZ_d0eS_iT]

LMAO!

 

You crying Irish fans and 'SC haters are hilarious. Woulda, coulda, shoulda....bottom line:SCOREBOARD - Leinart, Bush, and Jarret made the plays they had to in order to beat a team that was clearly playing WAY OVER its head and had a legitimate shot at winning. Given ND didn't slip in the polls, it seems the rest of America agreed they deserve respect for their showing against what had been touted as one of the most impressive offensive juggernauts in college football with virtually the same squad that got its head kicked in the last 3 years.

 

As for the missed call on the goal line, don't tell me that NEVER happens in college football (where a player is assisted to a certain degree to pick up extra yardage). Seriously, I have never even seen that called, so I doubt the refs were going to try to end the game on a technicallity. If anything it proved to me they were willing to let the players play, and let them decide the outcome. If ND stacked the box, this whole agruement would be a moot as time might* have run out.

 

Secondly, WTH was up the idiot letting the game clock keep running down when the ball was clearly fumbled out of bounds? I remember screaming at the tv why the clock is still running. But I shouldn't be surprised by that kind of home-call...luckily they added some time left, and gave USC one last opportunity to either win, lose or tie.

[eZ_d0eS_iT]

As for Texas...they are a great team and deserve their shot at the nat'l championship, but they're still gonna need to go through the current champ to prove they are for real. I'm sorry but their only impressive win was the one they barely escaped with against Ohio St. Yes, the same OSU that currently is out of the top 10 with 2 losses. Texas will have played against 3 ranked teams to USC's 5? Clearly SC has had one of the tougher schedules for a contending national champion. We'll see if they continue to keep spotting teams halftime leads before it comes back to bite them in the ass.

[See Red]

LMAO!

 

You crying Irish fans and 'SC haters are hilarious. Woulda, coulda, shoulda....bottom line:SCOREBOARD - Leinart, Bush, and Jarret made the plays they had to in order to beat a team that was clearly playing WAY OVER its head and had a legitimate shot at winning. Given ND didn't slip in the polls, it seems the rest of America agreed they deserve respect for their showing against what had been touted as one of the most impressive offensive juggernauts in college football with virtually the same squad that got its head kicked in the last 3 years.

 

As for the missed call on the goal line, don't tell me that NEVER happens in college football (where a player is assisted to a certain degree to pick up extra yardage). Seriously, I have never even seen that called, so I doubt the refs were going to try to end the game on a technicallity. If anything it proved to me they were willing to let the players play, and let them decide the outcome. If ND stacked the box, this whole agruement would be a moot as time might* have run out.

 

Secondly, WTH was up the idiot letting the game clock keep running down when the ball was clearly fumbled out of bounds? I remember screaming at the tv why the clock is still running. But I shouldn't be surprised by that kind of home-call...luckily they added some time left, and gave USC one last opportunity to either win, lose or tie.

 

A technicality? You say 'technicality'... I say rule. It was a two handed push, clear as day -- on top of that, he doesn't get into the endzone without it and it's against the rules. And the aiding the ballcarrier doesn't happen very often actually and I think it's only a penalty at the goal line -- it certainly doesn't happen as clearly as a two handed shove to the chest. No matter how often it's called, it's still a rule. Before one fateful night in New England, how many people had known of the tuck rule and how often had it ever been called? Those referees managed to get it right.

 

There were THREE missed calls to end that game. THREE. Two of which, the push in the chest and Pete Carroll's son for attempting to call a timeout well outside of the coaches box with none left, even, would've ended the game with the aforementioned clock run off.

 

The clock kept running because at first, according to Charlie Weis, anyway, the referee said the ball was fumbled forward, which I'm pretty sure would not stop the clock -- he then changed his call. You actually think that they'd have made a call just to favor the home team? Please... those were Pac-10 referees.

 

And yeah, 'luckily' USC didn't lose on a bad call, or a mistake like Notre Dame did... that would be tragic.

 

And Notre Dame played above their heads? Call it what it really is. The 'best coach in the Nation' getting outcoached. The 'best team ever' getting outplayed, and then bailed out by the officials.

[thewarriorscode12]

LMAO!

 

You crying Irish fans and 'SC haters are hilarious. Woulda, coulda, shoulda....bottom line:SCOREBOARD - Leinart, Bush, and Jarret made the plays they had to in order to beat a team that was clearly playing WAY OVER its head and had a legitimate shot at winning. Given ND didn't slip in the polls, it seems the rest of America agreed they deserve respect for their showing against what had been touted as one of the most impressive offensive juggernauts in college football with virtually the same squad that got its head kicked in the last 3 years.

 

As for the missed call on the goal line, don't tell me that NEVER happens in college football (where a player is assisted to a certain degree to pick up extra yardage). Seriously, I have never even seen that called, so I doubt the refs were going to try to end the game on a technicallity. If anything it proved to me they were willing to let the players play, and let them decide the outcome. If ND stacked the box, this whole agruement would be a moot as time might* have run out.

 

Secondly, WTH was up the idiot letting the game clock keep running down when the ball was clearly fumbled out of bounds? I remember screaming at the tv why the clock is still running. But I shouldn't be surprised by that kind of home-call...luckily they added some time left, and gave USC one last opportunity to either win, lose or tie.

USC got a lucky call. Go ahead, bask in the "glory" of a missed call and lucky break. The fact is, you were out played in that game, there was a missed call, you should have lost. And I CAN"T wait for Texas to demolish USC. Because right now I hate USC more than FSU, and if you know me at all, for me to hate anything more than FSU is quite a statement.

[BoSox84]

Can you feel the love in here, i can.

[thewarriorscode12]

Can you feel the love in here, i can.

Well, USC gets my blood boiling a little bit.

[eZ_d0eS_iT]

aiding the ballcarrier doesn't happen very often...

 

And Notre Dame played above their heads? Call it what it really is. The 'best coach in the Nation' getting outcoached. The 'best team ever' getting outplayed, and then bailed out by the officials.

 

It happens ALL THE TIME in short yardage situations when a team is 3rd or 4th and inches and a quarterback sneak is called or when the runningback tries to leap over the pile. Just because you cant see what happens underneath or with bodies flying everywhere doesn't mean it doesnt happen. Furthermore, I called it a technicality because while it is mentioned in the rulebook, it is seldom if ever called.

 

As far as the job Petey did coaching, last I checked he doesn't actually suit up and play offense or defense. I can be objective and agree that our defense stinks, and injuries are not an excuse. Lets be honest, if our defense wasn't a sieve against the ND offense, this game isn't as close as it was in the end. But props to the ND for making the plays they needed to...they just didn't make enough of them in the end. You stop Leinart on 4th and 9, and the "pushing" play never happens.

 

As far as ND playing over their heads...ahahah you're gonna tell me a team that has the talent of USC barely escapes against a ND team that up until this early this year didn't scare anyone is NOT playing over their heads?? Was SC outplayed? In many ways yes, but then suscribe to that rationale, then you also acknowledge SC could have played much better...Given the current win streak and success USC has enjoyed in his tenure, and the obvious advantage of playing at home, it isn't hard to imagine ND getting pumped up to try and knock off the #1 team in the nation. Like much of the past 2 seasons, USC has had a target on their back and took the 'best' shot from every team they played and still came out on top. Love 'em or hate 'em you gotta give it to them.

 

And as much as I have always HATED ND, I respect them and the job Charlie has done with what he has on the roster. It should be a great rivalry instead of the boring asskickings ND was familiar with.

[ARod2212]

USC did not impress me at all. Leinart looks like crap, though Reggie Bush is the real deal. Brady Quinn looks like a better QB than Leinart, and I'm not that high on Quinn right now. Texas will destroy USC.

[thewarriorscode12]

It happens ALL THE TIME in short yardage situations when a team is 3rd or 4th and inches and a quarterback sneak is called or when the runningback tries to leap over the pile. Just because you cant see what happens underneath or with bodies flying everywhere doesn't mean it doesnt happen. Furthermore, I called it a technicality because while it is mentioned in the rulebook, it is seldom if ever called.

 

As far as the job Petey did coaching, last I checked he doesn't actually suit up and play offense or defense. I can be objective and agree that our defense stinks, and injuries are not an excuse. Lets be honest, if our defense wasn't a sieve against the ND offense, this game isn't as close as it was in the end. But props to the ND for making the plays they needed to...they just didn't make enough of them in the end. You stop Leinart on 4th and 9, and the "pushing" play never happens.

 

As far as ND playing over their heads...ahahah you're gonna tell me a team that has the talent of USC barely escapes against a ND team that up until this early this year didn't scare anyone is NOT playing over their heads?? Was SC outplayed? In many ways yes, but then suscribe to that rationale, then you also acknowledge SC could have played much better...Given the current win streak and success USC has enjoyed in his tenure, and the obvious advantage of playing at home, it isn't hard to imagine ND getting pumped up to try and knock off the #1 team in the nation. Like much of the past 2 seasons, USC has had a target on their back and took the 'best' shot from every team they played and still came out on top. Love 'em or hate 'em you gotta give it to them.

 

And as much as I have always HATED ND, I respect them and the job Charlie has done with what he has on the roster. It should be a great rivalry instead of the boring asskickings ND was familiar with.

So your telling me that because a rule gets broken all the time and not called makes it right to not be called? Your logic is flawed. You're admitting that USC got a bad call to go there way, yet you seem to have no problem with that? You act almost like it's something to be proud of? Face it, USC got exposed, and when a team with a little more talent, and better oficiating such as Va Tech or Texas, plays you, your little team is going to get it handed to them. Oh, and if you decide to point out how USC is thrashing Washinton today, you'll only look foolish.

[eZ_d0eS_iT]

So your telling me that because a rule gets broken all the time and not called makes it right to not be called?

 

In a sense...yes, or at least not have that rule be the deciding factor for determining the outcome in a close game. As far as being happy about it, dude the only thing I'm happy about is they are still undefeated. Period. I'm not impressed with the way they have been playing all season, or at least after they rolled up Arkansas. They are capable of playing much, much better than that and have relied on their offense and their reputation to come back in games they had no business being down in. Their defense has a long way to go to get back into nat'l champ. shape.

 

And no, I'm not impressed with beating Washington. I would have been more impressed if they would have held them to under 10 points. As for Va Tech & Texas...well we beat Va. Tech head to head, so I'm not too worried about them. Texas is LOOKING great, and while Texas Tech was one of the better tests they've had all year, I still am not impressed with their strength of schedule.

[BoSox84]

Good lord were still going to be fighting over this game in January

[Sox Fan on Cape]

I'd say it's about time to move this to Fights and Crap.