Rating A-Rod at 30 (and beyond?)

[YankeeDoodle]

Yeah - I know what you're thinking - just what this board needs, another Alex Rodriguez thread. BUT this one is designed to strictly focus on his baseball abilities and on-the-field play, please. Would appreciate if you kept your thoughts about his sexual oritentation, fashion taste, or whatever irrelevant tidbit, out of it.

 

As of this posting, the front of ESPN.com is allllll about Alex Emmanuel Rodriguez (yes they spelled out his middle name).

 

The tangibles (Rodriguez's stats vs. all-time leader at 30):

 

HRs:

Hank Aaron -342

A-Rod - 409

 

RBI:

Hank Aaron - 1121

A-Rod - 1176

 

Hits:

Pete Rose - 1540

A-Rod - 1825

 

Runs:

Rickey Henderson - 1058

A-Rod - 1197

 

So yes, I know many Red Sox fans spite him (and Mariners and Rangers). But if you were to momentarily shelve your "bias", how would you rank him among the all-time greats, and barring injuries or unforseen circumstances that would shorten his career, how do you think his career will turn out? Pass Aaron in HRs? Will he win any championships, with the Yankees no less? :dunno: Interested in your opinions.

 

And while you're at it...vote (scroll down to SN poll) for what you associate A-Rod with:

-$252 mil contract

-Baseball's best player

-Record-breaking stats

-Doesn't produce in clutch

-Never will be DJ

 

^ Vote based on whatever for that

[ORS]

He'll probably go on to break both of Aaron's records and Henderson's record. But he's got a long way to go to get Rose's. Two-hundred hit's a year and he's playing until he's 42 to break the record. I don't see him playing that long.

 

Winning a championship? Most likely if he stays with the Yankees because every year the formula doesn't work, money will be spent on a new formula the next year.

 

How will he be remembered? That's up to him. There are a lot of fans who think statistical mastery isn't worth what you will find in the outhouse if you can't perform when it counts most. DJ isn't the best shortstop playing right now, but he is the one I would want on my team in the playoffs. ARod tends to pull a David Copperfield-esque dissappearing act in post season games when all the chips are down.

 

Do I like him? Never had a problem with, even when he ended up on the Yankees, until the comment, "I thought it was a good play", defending his karate-chop in game 6 of the ALCS. After that, my mentality is "Hey, drop the mirror Narcissus".

[YankeeDoodle]

Ok, so to the championship point - does winning, or I suppose until further notice - NOT winning a championship, validate or discredit a player's accomplishments? When one looks at the other sports; Dan Marino never won one (Joe Montana did), Wilt Chamberlain only got one (when you compare how many Russell had), and Ted Williams never got the Red Sox a ring - though he's widely considered as one of the best hitters (if not the best) of all-time.

 

Is baseball more lenient in its standards in winning championships; I've hardly heard anyone make the case that Barry Bonds is not the best player of all-time because he never won the World Series. Whereas with Marino it's "he's a TD mammoth, but he never won the big one." If it's a team sport, is it expected that one guy is going to carry the entire load?

 

A-Rod was interviewed on ESPN and he said that his career is not complete until he does win the World Series. He's constantly berated in the towns that he's left; especially since they've done better since his depature - you guys won the championship when he didn't come - coincidence?

 

Then again Jeter has more rings than any active shortstop, and all that's said is, "he's not that good blah blah...not even the best on his own team", so there's just no winning either way?

 

Unless it's Michael Jordan. - and who knows how things would've turned out if Portland drafted him first.

[ORS]

I'm not one of the ones that dumps on Jeter. He's a great baseball player. Period.

 

As far as validation goes, I tend to rate a player's performance in the big games. Losing in a team game can hardly be considered solely the superstar's fault. If said superstar shows up big time, performs at very high level, and loses anyway, then I don't think the "never won the big game" moniker can be stuck to them. However, if said superstar fails to show up, then the title may be appropriately applied.

[26 to 6]

I'm not one of the ones that dumps on Jeter. He's a great baseball player. Period.

 

As far as validation goes, I tend to rate a player's performance in the big games. Losing in a team game can hardly be considered solely the superstar's fault. If said superstar shows up big time, performs at very high level, and loses anyway, then I don't think the "never won the big game" moniker can be stuck to them. However, if said superstar fails to show up, then the title may be appropriately applied.

Alex was very good vs the Twins in the ALDS last year and not too bad in the ALCS, i think with more opprotunities he could be pretty good in big games, and as for the comparrisons to the all time leaders, i think it speaks or itself, i wouldnt be surprised if he went on to surpass all of those leaders (maybe except Rose, he might not play long enough). I still believe A-Rod is the best player in the game, and its ridiculous that very few view him that way as opposed to his last 2 years in Texas when it was always a comparrison between Alex and Bonds.

[yeszir]

LIKE OMG CAN WE RATE HIS SCROTUM@!!!!?!??!? If so I GiVe HiMMM a 12/10!!!11one

 

And I'll state the obvious: A-Rod is a one of a kind player. There, I said it. He's still a tool though.

[ahhchon]

a-rod the best player in the game.. arguably, but it's still very hard to argue against it. i don't see anyone with his abilities. i had rull respect of him until he didn't fess up to being a bitch about the slap. all i wanted to hear from him was "sorry, it was a heat of the moment mistake".

 

john

[Manny Goes Boom]

As for the records, I've said for a few years that A-Rod will break Aaron's homerun record, maybe even shatter it, 800-850 I dunno, maybe more :dunno: but as a person I don't like the guy, but thats another thread or two. (or ten LMAO ) I saw ESPN run those stats tonight and I didn't realize he was ahead of all of them at 30. I could see him breaking the Homers, RBI's, and Runs records, but as people said before, the hits will be hard to do.

[MC Hammer]

Ok, so to the championship point - does winning, or I suppose until further notice - NOT winning a championship, validate or discredit a player's accomplishments? When one looks at the other sports; Dan Marino never won one (Joe Montana did), Wilt Chamberlain only got one (when you compare how many Russell had), and Ted Williams never got the Red Sox a ring - though he's widely considered as one of the best hitters (if not the best) of all-time.

 

Yes it does actually. Every time Dan Marino's name is brought up someone is talking about how he could never win the big one. Derek Jeter on the other hand is an example of a guy who is way too over hyped because of his championships. His BA in the post season is somewhere in the low .200's. He has something like 46 post season RBI's in 400+ ABs. Derek Jeter is about 1/10th as good as he's made out to be, so to answer your question, yes championships credit/discredit a players accomplishments in some way or another.

 

As far as the whole A-rod thing goes. Enjoy it while you can Yankee fans. Enjoy seeing his name at the top of all these lists, and blah blah blah, but remember one thing. Albert Pujols is 25 years old, and if A-rod breaks any records, Pujols will be right behind him to break them again.

[CalvnHobs6]

You know, Griffey had similar stats at age 30 too. As much as I dislike A-rod, I truly hope he doesn't become another Griffey, suffering a series of ridiculous injuries to slow down/stop certain aspects of his career. A-Rod is the best all-around player in baseball, and will probably stay that way until the end of his overpaid career.

[YankeeDoodle]

LIKE OMG CAN WE RATE HIS SCROTUM@!!!!?!??!? If so I GiVe HiMMM a 12/10!!!11one

 

And I'll state the obvious: A-Rod is a one of a kind player. There, I said it. He's still a tool though.

yeszir! Ok, that was what, post #6? Dooley noted can't even get past page one without a reference to A-Rod's anatomy. And all you ppl who commented in those six-page sagas - where are you? If you bring some meat I'll allow a thinly-veiled shot?

 

Yeah, Pujols numbers during his first five years are amazing; he's probably the only one right now who can stack up to Rodriguez offensively. And I think he's one of the guys who will stay in St. Louis (can't fault him; fantastic town) - he'd even take a *gasp* pay cut.

 

The leaders in HRs at age 30 were Ken Griffey Jr. and Juan Gonzalez - who after age 30, each have had seven trips to the DL.

 

Ok, to comment on the comment Rodriguez made about the "Brandon" Arroyo slap - I interpreted as "I thought it was a good play because I really wanted to drive home a run and I would've done everything in my power to do so" - and what was not said was, "...and even some not in my power, but it's in the name of team. It was against the rules? Oh. Mr. Torre said if I argued with the umpire long enough, they might side with me!" Typical Yankee soundbite, I guess? And I'll add that I listen to his comments with a tater tot in each ear.

 

Alex, you are taking the entire town out to dinner when you do win that championship!

 

Hammer: Ok, touche about the championship ring. Would you then want Trent Dilfer to QB your Super Bowl team, than Peyton Manning who by this logic has a history of not getting over the hump. And no, you can't cop out with a "rather have a great defense and efficient QB". If Manning had that kind of defense, he'd be sipping ice tea and handing the ball off.

[Sizzlin22]

They showed an interesting stat on Sports Center last night. Two players have done what A-Rod has done by age 30 in recent history, Ken Griffey Jr. and Juan Gonzalez, each since after age 30 have had 7 trips to the DL.

[YankeeDoodle]

They showed an interesting stat on Sports Center last night. Two players have done what A-Rod has done by age 30 in recent history, Ken Griffey Jr. and Juan Gonzalez, each since after age 30 have had 7 trips to the DL.

Was I too verbose for you?

 

The leaders in HRs at age 30 were Ken Griffey Jr. and Juan Gonzalez - who after age 30, each have had seven trips to the DL.

Yeah, that's where I got the stat from, too. Just staying inside the lines, Rodriguez is a fun player to watch, and he would be a good player for MLB to promote - with the exception of those three markets that have extreme distate for him, but he's someone to help move away from the steroid cloud - and not only does he have offense, but he has speed and defense (when he was at SS, and there's not reason to doubt he'll improve at third).

 

Wow, a grudginly belated gift from the Talk Sox posters...on top of that Rolex you might've gotten, A-Rod.

[Missin_Cabrera]

hes a great player...and i like him...hes cute...but the purple lips r scary

[YankeeDoodle]

AHH! I thought I said NO SPAM!

 

Still on page one...

[Sizzlin22]

Was I too verbose for you?

My bad I tend to skip over things when posts are too long for my attnetion span.

[YankeeDoodle]

My bad I tend to skip over things when posts are too long for my attnetion span.

LIAR! Y'all love reading those A-Rod bashing threads...I guess this is a bit boring for your liking? Throw in a cyber jelly bean jar for anyone who gets closest to his numbers? :dunno:

 

Well, I'll be sure to bolditalicizeunderline any "interesting" points. Hmph. Serves me right for trying to piece together a coherent argument (in his favor?). <_>

 

Nah, I wouldn't be completely honest. I just wanted to see how many of you could give A-Rod any cred given the stipulations without gagging over yourselves.

[MC Hammer]

Was I too verbose for you?

 

 

Yeah, that's where I got the stat from, too. Just staying inside the lines, Rodriguez is a fun player to watch, and he would be a good player for MLB to promote - with the exception of those three markets that have extreme distate for him, but he's someone to help move away from the steroid cloud - and not only does he have offense, but he has speed and defense (when he was at SS, and there's not reason to doubt he'll improve at third).

 

I'm pretty sure that 29 markets hate A-rods guts, not just 3. Theres a big misconception that only Red Sox/Orioles fans hate the Yankees, but in reality most fans that live outside of NY hate the yankees.

[Tek4pres]

A-Rod, strictly as a hitter, is in the top five all time if we rate what he did before 30. Where we go from here is anyone's guess. Remember Ken Griffey Jr. had similarly impressive numbers at the time he was 30. And he was probably the best centerfielder of his generation, so the train can derail very quickly.

 

I don't think A-Rod is hated in other places besides Seattle, Texas and Boston. Frankly, I don't see all that much hatred directed at him from Texas since it wasn't his fault they have one of the dumbest owners in the league. And really much of A-Rod's personality has been only very recently blown up into the portrait of the narcissist that we now see in him. Unlike Barry Bonds, he has had a pretty good relationship with the media before this winter, and also unlike Bonds, I think if he learned a bit more maturity and allowed some time to heal some of the things in his past, he'd be perceived as a much nicer guy.

[Manny Goes Boom]

Hammer does have a point, A-Rod might break those numbers (Aaron, Henderson, etc.) but Pujols will (without injury) break them right behind A-Rod, especially at the pace hes playing at.

[MC Hammer]

A-Rod, strictly as a hitter, is in the top five all time if we rate what he did before 30. Where we go from here is anyone's guess. Remember Ken Griffey Jr. had similarly impressive numbers at the time he was 30. And he was probably the best centerfielder of his generation, so the train can derail very quickly.

 

I don't think A-Rod is hated in other places besides Seattle, Texas and Boston. Frankly, I don't see all that much hatred directed at him from Texas since it wasn't his fault they have one of the dumbest owners in the league. And really much of A-Rod's personality has been only very recently blown up into the portrait of the narcissist that we now see in him. Unlike Barry Bonds, he has had a pretty good relationship with the media before this winter, and also unlike Bonds, I think if he learned a bit more maturity and allowed some time to heal some of the things in his past, he'd be perceived as a much nicer guy.

 

It doesn't matter how nice a guy he is. He's a Yankee, and that means just about everyone that doesn't live in NY hates him.

[YankeeDoodle]

It doesn't matter how nice a guy he is. He's a Yankee, and that means just about everyone that doesn't live in NY hates him.

You hate Jeter? Or Rivera? So then, if I bring up a list of ALLLLL the great Yanks that have played in the past; Gehrig, Ruth, DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra, etc., can any baseball fan deny their talent and what they did for the game in general?

 

I've heard it brought up that Pujols in his first five years has put up offensive numbers that only compare to five other players in MLB history - and those were some pretty impressive names that are now in Cooperstown.