oldtimer

I can't believe a manager makes 50 to 200 moves a game. Once the lineup is set the moves deal with pitching (warmups and pitching changes), lineup changes for defense, and pinch hitting and to replace injured players and perhaps come to that number only if you include decision to steal, to hit and run and to take pitches. In addition, there may be pitchouts or throws to first. Many of those decisions, such as to take pitches, throws to first, etc. are probably left to coaches, so the manager is probably involved in pitching and other important decisions a lot less than 50 times a game. I believe one poor inaction or action can cost a game. In the example most talked about here, Farrell was slow to get a relief pitcher up, slow to make the change for Price and some would argue (not me, I'm ambivalent on that one) that the second change didn't make sense. In my book that was two areas that put the Mariners in a position to win the game and win they did.

Another good pitching performance required in this case to eke out a win in the 11th. A weakened lineup out there with Papi and Hanley out and Brentz in.

Pedey is the toughest guy on the team.

I do think Holt has value in the trade market and maybe more than the value we ascribe to him in a super utility role. I can see us adding Hannigan and Rameriz into the trade market and perhaps Buchholz of our starters, realizing we wouldn't get his full contract covered. If Hanley does go we may save $10 Mil a year and with Ortiz coming off the books we will have some cash to spend. It sounds like we then would have to acquire a DH with Hanley gone and probably look for another RP or two as we are likely to have at least one retirement. I assume you are thinking of Benintendi in LF, Moncada at 3rd base and Shaw at first with Leon as the primary catcher and Swihart, Young on the roster. Is it impossible in your view that we won't get at least one RP and even a possible SP from the minors for next year?

Don't know where to put this one but it is one old fan's perspective on how things are working out. in 1978. Myself and my older brothers followed his lead with me becoming old enough to be a fan in the late 1940’s. I have been blessed to see some individually great players and some excellent teams along the way. To me, there are things which are probably obvious to others but worth mentioning in my view. 1. ML baseball is a very competitive game. To do well and reach the playoffs, a team needs to win around 25 or more games than they lose. Teams with the financial resources to afford costly FA’s and maintain a solid farm system have the advantage although they still need a smart front office and good day to day management. The 2016 version of the Red Sox has a good mix of speed, defensive and offensive talent and reasonable pitching and has a shot at making the playoffs. The front office this year has done their share of providing incremental improvements and filling voids created through injuries. DD has been bold but hasn’t thrown away the store with his moves. 2. This is an imperfect world and we shouldn’t expect perfection from players or managers. Good hitters make outs more often than not and fielders make errors. Players can be playing with injuries, have outside issues or the opposition may have found weaknesses. Those players need to overcome their problems and make adjustment or otherwise face being replaced by their betters. Good coaching can help these players but it still up to them to find answers. In modern times, fans seem to be in love with stats, and they are meaningful, but these are humans playing out there and they need to have positive feelings to give their best. The manager on the other hand has to do what he can to keep the club house positive and to make lineup cards, and moves to win games while making certain he doesn’t wear out his players. It is a tough job and fans realize poor choices can ruin any chances of making the playoffs. If a manager causes a team to lose 5 or 6 games during the year due to his actions or inactions, it is very difficult to make that up in the competitive baseball environment. Is Farrell better or worse at managing than anyone else we might have? For that we have to let the season play out and see if the team plays to its expected capabilities. 3. Baseball is a young man’s game and only a few of the very best last well into their 30’s. We need to accept that youngsters will arise from the minors to take on meaningful roles. Our coaches are the best evaluators of these kids and they should be listened to. Benintendi was brought up because they think he is a better alternative to what was available. Let’s hope they were right. Maybe he can give us a game or two we wouldn’t have won with the alternative players.

Last night the shaky Italian kid went two for three, while the veterans were held to less. Last nights 3 to 1 loss points out the obvious situation. 1. We will run into a good opponent pitching performance and when we do will lose even if we get a good effort from our own pitching staff. 2. Clearly we need to win those games where we have a clear advantage late, like the night before. Opportunities need to be exploited. My speculation is that a failure to win a game we should win is disheartening to a team and can lead to following on poor performances from our hitters. Lets hope we don't go into a tailspin as we are on the road and tired.

Does anyone know whether the team carries insurance to cover salary costs for periods when players are injured? Hanley is getting $22 million a year, so a period away from the team costs real money expenditure without return. Just an example as many players get injured over the period of a season, and some of them are not directly injured in game situations.

Next year we should have a nice mix of veteran and young players in the field. Even better, some of our veteran players are young as well. Our veterans will include Pedroia, Bogaerts, Betts, Brandley, Leon, Hanley if he stays, Hill and Holt, also if they stay. Hannigan is unlikely to remain as his primary value is catching Wright. I expect our youth to include Benintendi and Moncada and possibly Devers. I doubt Travis will be ready due to his injury setback. I see Hernandez as a possibility for a utility role as his is a very good fielder. Maybe HOlt and Hill become trade chips.We also have a couple of options for a backup catcher behind Leon. I would not like to see a young 5 tool kid like Moncada doing the DH. Hanley might fill that role, but doesn't impress me as the kind of reliable power bat we need. Certainly a possibility, but maybe he will be traded while we find a better overall power bat for DH

My view is that we are in a difficult race for the playoffs with two tough teams and as such need to do everything we can to win the ones where we have a solid lead late in the game. Case in point with a 4 run lead going into the 8th and a fresh bull pen of solid relievers available and a pitcher with 93 pitches (4th time around the order), I would have had a relief pitcher up throwing lightly. After Price gave up a home run the red flag should have come up, although anyone can make a bad pitch and a hitter get lucky. After the second hit with no one out, the manager should be thinking Cano and Cruze are coming up soon so I need my relief pitcher ready and I need a second one up. After the third hit in a row, I pull my starter and go to my reliever. Farrell waited for a fourth hitter to get on with the tieing run before making a move. Abad pitch to Cano and we lose. The Seattle relief pitcher threw extremely hard and mowed down Bradley, Leon and Benintendi although the last called strike was close to 2 inches outside the box at 99 mph so was a bad call. In my view, this was another example of Farrell waiting too long to make a pitching change.

Young went out with a hamstring, which is typically a 6 weeks injury or more depending on the severity. Then there is the need to have a few games in the minors to get sharp again. I think he will be out for a few more weeks. Not much word about Swiharts progress either.We are working with left fielders who you think suck and also these are are backups for the other outfielders. Benintendi as a replacement makes sense to me and to Red Sox management. He just may show us something as he get some ML playing time. Lets hope the fans are tolerant as he is just starting his ML career.

For the first time in a while, I feel optimistic about the teams chances of making the playoffs. The starting pitching has spun a number of good games and Clay Buchholz has even regained some of his abilities. Our relief pitching has gotten another boost through DD while Kimbrel is back and Ziegler is going well. Pitching, which was a disaster, partially due to injuries is now on a par with other contenders. In the field, we continue to have great contributions from Betts, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Bradley, Ortiz and Leon and now have hope that our left field will be strengthened. That leaves us with an okay Hanley, Shaw, Hill and Holt. Hannigan at catcher is weak at the plate but someone has to catch Wright and he got that unenviable assignment. We still have Young and Swihart in rehab and Moncada to be brought up later, so even more strength available. I see our biggest problem, should we make the playoffs is a shutdown ace starting pitcher. I don't see anything happening on that front, so we have to go with the pitching we have. We are now a real competitor to win the division, being only one game back. Our schedule is biased toward away games so that is a handicap, and I question Farrell's leadership, but every team has problems, it is not a perfect world.

This team has been heavily reliant on the top of the order of late and Ortiz is not able to play every day so bringing up someone to give the team some new energy is a good idea. Is Beni ready? Time will tell, but he just may contribute and Brentz wasn't a long term answer so I like the idea. Over the years in baseball, there have been a lot of players who have been brought up at a younger age and with less experience who have prospered.Let's hope that Beni's experience is a positive one.

That is an optimistic view and one I hope comes true for both Clay and the team. Why has it taken so long for the team to work on these adjustments for Clay? Sounds like our pitching coaches have not dealt with what was causing his inadequacies.

I think Sandoval's time in a Red Sox uniform is over and we have to look at his contract as a sunken cost. I have not been impressed with Hanley. He is so hit and miss that I think we can do much better. If we could trade him and eat part of his contract, I would be for that. TShaw has the possibility of improvement as he is early in his career and he is Hanley's equal at ist defensively. Travis is another intriguing possibility but he has to come back from injury and show he can play at a major league level, something TShaw has already done. Moncada at third is the likely choice of management. Whether he makes it remains to be determined. I sure many other clubs would love to have our problem with finding him a position. I would use Holt and Hernandez as utility players as you never know when our infielders might need rest or get injured. I do think we need to trade for or FA sign a quality power bat for DH, whether he be Encarnacion or another possibility. Probably no one can match our loss with Ortiz leaving. With 5 current good starting pitchers, perhaps we can get a #1 in the FA market. We would need a #1 to go into any playoff race with an expectation of being successful. We should continue to strengthen our pitching development capability to see if we can develop another of our own kids. Other organizations are doing it so why can't we?

Yes, sometimes the trade not made is the best one. DD is doing a good job of getting value without giving up the farm.

Your much better at coming up with the price of players to fill some of our needs (as you stated them) for next season. I would think we can fill our LF, 3rd base. 1st base needs from a combination of Shaw, Benintendi and Moncada and still keep Young as a platoon outfielder and for flexibility should we sustain outfield injuries next season. It the Red Sox thinking is along that line then Hanley is available for DH although I don't see him as nearly the power threat or clutch hitter that we will be losing in Ortiz. I know it is unlikely that we could move Hanley while signing Encarnacion but one can dream. As far as RP under control, our pen has been getting better due to DD dealing this July. I know we have Workman rehabbing. Maybe we can get one of our RP's from our minor league organization. That still leaves a tall order to add a quality SP and RP from the market. Big bucks even if we can make a deal.

Also, the major league baseball channel is saying the red sox are no longer in consideration for Sale. The asking price was too high.

The team looks lethargic. The offense, once a strong point, is having trouble generating runs. Do we expect our pitching to give up zero runs for us to compete? Not very realistic. We don't seem to have energy out there. Is there any way to turn things around? Is Farrell part of the problem? I am in the camp that doesn't believe trading away the strength of our minor leagues away for a starting pitcher makes sense.

Last night we put a weakened lineup on the field. If you trade for an ace and deplete the minors what good would it do? Maybe win another few games this year. Even an ace might not win with only two runs support, as Price didn't with his fine game just two days ago. With Ortiz out of the lineup, most of the run production had to be generated by Betts, Pedroia, Bogaerts. Rameriz is hit and miss so to speak. Beyond that you have to look at Leon to do anything. Ortiz will have to sit fairly often going down the stretch, afterall, he is 40 and not superhuman. Maybe it's time to bring up some enthusiastic young players to give us energy and a different outlook. Could they do worse than Brentz, Hill and even Shaw? The time is here for a change before we do something stupid and trade away the brightest part of our future. We need to re-energize this team and stop kidding ourselves. The team looks tired and on the downward track.

Don't forget Castillo on your list of high priced players who are making no contribution to the team! I would say the Present Value of each top ten minor league prospect is significant. I read something like $75 million each for Benentendi and Moncada and slightly less for Devers. Swihart also has significant value as well. I would be reluctant to trade most of that talent away for a SP who may turn out to be fragile and last less than the 3 years or 4 years of player control. Our top pitching prospects also have a Present Value but I doubt if it is as high as our position players. Our weaknesses are one outfield position, possibly third/first (one not both) and a designated hitter going forward. It looks like we may go into the free agent market for the designated hitting talent to replace Ortiz. The weakness in starting pitching is more to do with how well our current group would handle playoffs. We could also use an upgrade in the BP, but there is a great demand for similar talent by most of the contending clubs. The price for SP and BP help may not be worth the return.

Yes, and we got beat with a starting pitcher with an 85 mph fast ball velocity. It does point out velocity is not the be all and end all. I prefer that management shores up our weak areas such as left field, third/first base and look for another solid RP. Chances are the cost wouldn't be that great. Someone needs to take it upon themselves to fire up this team. My guess is it will come from within the players and not from Farrell. Trading away our best assets for a SP will give marginal improvement and we know SPs are fragile. We could wind up with nothing much to show for our best prospects.

Back to Farrell. The Detroit series has gone badly. They can hit and have decent pitching and quite good relief pitching. We got beat with a good effort by Pomeranz, we got beat when Wright got shelled (a winnable game with the better managing) and got beat yesterday when our pitching was pretty good but theirs was better. My thought is to use our best pitching resources to win the games where we have the best chance. No manager is going to make the right decision every time, but it is the indecisiveness handling his pitching (should be his strength) that worries me.

Like Moonslav, I would like Quintana as a stater for now and into the future. To realistically have a chance to get him, we would have to give up some of our highly valued prospects and/or a current major league player (thinking a catcher). We need to be mindful of where we will need improvements going forward. One outfielder, first/third base, designated hitter. We have Benintendi, Moncada, Swihart and Devers to potentially fill those holes. Which of those would we have to throw in? I question Hanley's value to the team going forward as his performance runs hot and cold. His contract will probably keep him in a Sox uniform for one more year.

From what I have heard, Benintendi is athletic and fast. He is really thought of as a center fielder, which requires speed. His weakest category is his arm. I still like him a lot and think he is a piece we need to add to our outfield as an every day player and depth. I would be very reluctant to trade him.

I would worry that Sale is a bit of a head case and might not add as much to the team as another strong young pitcher, while the price would be high. You name 4 potential trade offerings. Of those, I would be most unhappy about losing Swihart, the others, not so much although Devers has a lot of potential.