S5Dewey

Yes. This. He's been so brilliant in the past that it would be foolish to give up on him without giving him a chance in the pen, and the only way he gets that chance is to let him pitch. It's also fair to say that he's probably on a shorter leash than anyone else. That in itself may be a motivation for him.

Damn! And you had to go and tell everybody!

Addressed to no one in particular, I have to say that all of this talk about "you guys from BDC" doesn't feel all that warm and fuzzy... or welcoming. It feels much like an "Us against you" mentality. There's a learning curve involved in moving from one forum to another and IMO most of as are assimilating into it quite well. Speaking for myself (who else?), there have been situations where there have been posts I wanted to make but since I wasn't sure where it would fit and I didn't want to start a new thread, I didn't post it. I'm just conceited enough to think that my thoughts are worth saying or I wouldn't be here - and don't we all feel that way? BUT... life has gone on just fine without my post(s) so it gets chalked up to 'no harm no foul'. It's also worth mentioning that there were different personalities on the BDC board just as there are here. We all knew one another and knew what to expect from them, so please be patient with us. For example, I believe SinceYaz is one of the nicest human beings you'll ever read a post from, along with being one of the most positive people you'll ever read from, and yet I've seen him 'ripped' for a variety of things. And that bothers me. Be patient with us. Yes, we're trying to make this board into the old BDC board to some degree but it's because it's what we know. We also need a nudge occasionally to be reminded that it's NOT the old BDC board. It's fine. If we all work together with patience and understanding it'll all work out. Those who want to remain here with your rules will remain and those who don't will move on. Re The Babe situation now: Those of us who were pointing out our experience with The Babe weren't doing it because we had a grudge against him. It was because we were trying to give you a heads-up as to what you can expect. If you knew someone who had defrauded an elderly lady of her money and this person was suddenly keeping company with your widowed mother, wouldn't you want to know? While that may be an extreme example, at the same time, as they say, "Past history is the best predictor of future behavior." We're not your enemy. We're your friends.

I think the question of whether he's trolling here has been answered. The only questions now are if and whether he gets banned. As for me, this is my last post on this topic until he gets banned. In the meantime I'm going to sit back and enjoy the show while he aggrivates the Hell out of everyone! Well...maybe I'll throw in an occasional "Tick... Tock... Tick... Tock" in respect to Kingface. What ever happened to Kingface, anyway? I hope he's ok.

Slash, please check your PM's.

In reviewing this thread http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/17668-Making-History there were three posters from BDC who were trying to alert the posters here that this guy is a troll. None of us said to ban him. Later, one poster said that he may not be a troll but he's a provocateur, which IMO is a very close cousin to a troll. He can either be banned or you/we can put up with his trolling. As I said, sit back, grin, and see what develops.

There were a couple of us who tried to tell folks here what was going to happen but they chose to pretty much ignore our experiences. I'm now going to just sit back, grin, and watch what develops.

Well... the guy was 10-2 at the AS game and before he got hit in the head. After getting hit late in July he was out for an extended period (poor choice of words?) and finished the season at 13-6 with an ERA just north of 4.5. Gotta think getting hit in the head had something to do with that. I'll admit he was just short of dreadful in 2006, 5-5, ERA above 6.5 in a dozen games before the shoulder surgery, Wait.. maybe that's not short of dreadful. Maybe it is dreadful. Yeah, I'll give you that. 2006 was a dreadful year for him.

Wow. Thats a harsh indictment for a guy who was struck in the head by a batted ball that essentially ended his career. He was 10-2 with the Sox before the All-star break that year,got hit in late July and ended up 13-6 after being out for quite a while recovering and while he kicked around baseball after that he never was effective after that.

Of course we do! We're baseball fans and we're obsessed with statistics!!

Completely true, The fly in the ointment here is the phrase "ideal trajectory angle". That trajectory angle is as crucial as bat speed in determining the flight of the ball and therefore determining the value of the exit speed. I think we all know how difficult it is to hit a moving sphere with a moving cylinder at the optimum trajectory angle, both on a North-South and East-West axes. Ted Williams said it best when he said that the hardest thing in sports hitting a moving baseball with a bat - or something like that.

OK. Assuming that you find exit velocity useful, what do YOU use it for? I'm not taking away the fact that it's enjoyable (again, the "Wow!" factor) but I don't see its practical use.

Actually... this is a fairly meaningless statistic. If you look at the simple formula for "force", the force that drives the ball, it's Force = mass x velocity, the force being what moves the ball, the mass being the amount of the bat that contacts the ball (does it hit the balls squarely?) and the velocity being the bat speed. It's entirely possible that Hanley could strike the ball less squarely but the ball would have a higher exit speed than if, say, Vazquez hit the ball, simply because Hanley is stronger so he generates more bat speed. In a situation like that Hanley may hit a ground ball or a popup with more exit speed than a home run hit by Vaz if Vaz hits the ball 'on the screws'. Is Hanley's ground ball hit with an exit speed of 100 MPH more valuable than Vaz's HR hit with an exit speed of 90 MPH? The "Wow!" factor is nice when we can say that Hanley's HR had an exit speed of 110 MPH, but what does it really mean in terms of the game?

IMHO one more start won't make any difference. Farrell made his statement last night when he left Buch in there to give up 4 ER in the 5th. The statement was, "We're done with you, and we're not going to help you any by pulling you now to keep your ERA down."

The only value I see in it is the "Wow!" factor.

Yeah. :-( I don't see any way this ends well for Buch. This goes back to what was said last year about Hanley. If he has an injury what's he doing out there? And if he doesn't have an injury, what's he doing out there? I have no patience with any player who hides an injury that makes his performance a negative influence on the team. That is, they're playing worse than the player who would replace them. And believe me, players know when they're hurting the team.

Thank you. That's exactly my point. What good does it do me to know that? Am I going to walk up to him and say, "Swing harder"? Probably not, and even if he did swing harder it would most likely negatively impact his offense. That's the kind of information that useless to me.

What value is it to us to know that his exit velocity is among the lowest in baseball? I care a lot more about his BA & OPS than the speed at which the ball comes off the bat. In the words of Bill Parcells, "Don't tell me about the pain, just show me the baby". Unfortunately those who dwell on negativity may/will take a couple of those obscure factoids and use them to imply that someone isn't as productive as both the more normal stats and the eye test say he is. I don't need useless crap in my life. I've got enough useful crap.

This isn't directed at you MVP, but this post is a great example of why we now have too many statistics. We can now take any player anyplace and find something "wrong" with him.

I wish I could remember the details, but didn't the Sox get censured, investigated...something.... for stashing non-injured players on the DL a few years ago?

I'd be interested in knowing how BAPIP correlates to exit velocity. It would seem that there are two ways a player could have an inordinately high BAPIP, by getting a quick start out of the batter's box or by squaring up on the ball and hitting it hard. High exit velocity means one of two things. Either a ground ball is getting through the infield more quickly than average or there are more uncatchable balls, usually home runs or balls hit off the walls and fences. My very unprofessional observation is that JBJ is hitting the ball hard AND hitting a lot of balls off the wall. He's spraying the ball around and hitting it where they ain't. While I don't expect his BAPIP to remain at the .400 mark it does seem to me that some players are going to have a higher BAPIP than others just like some players have a higher BA than others.

Since one poster here got banned for questioning the moderation I recognize that it may happen to me, but ... here goes. You're absolutely right. You took the side of the baseball debate and as a moderator you should not take sides. It's the function of the moderator to enforce the rules of the forum. Up until now the "rules" here have been strictly enforced - a minimum of new threads and threads should remain on topic. Some threads have been renamed, some merged with others, and some posters have been politely reminded about staying 'on topic'. It was even mentioned back on Page 1 that this thread should have been merged into the "Offense" thread. The topic of this thread was the positive accomplishments of certain Red Sox players and it has been derailed and turned into a referendum on Papi's chances of getting into the hall, which has devolved into a referendum on Ortiz's guilt or innocence. Insulting posts like "Umm, do you know how to use google?", "If you don't see the PED cloud associated with Ortiz you are either blind or a homer. Maybe both.", "Nobody is trolling, nitwit", "Again, not trolling, clown", "Again, do you not know how to use google?", and "I would suggest you take a course in reading comprehension as it is something that you obviously do not have a firm grasp on at this time.", all of which appeared IN THIS THREAD are not conducive to a constructive debate. - and yet they're allowed to continue. This is trolling 101. Find hot buttons and push them, deflect the conversation to something slightly off-topic and continue to insult and inflame posters all the while saying "I'm not a troll". Ya gotta admit, he's good at it! And if I get banned by calling him on it he will laugh up his sleeve believing that he's smarter than the moderator. ",

And you, sir, if I may say so, are being taken advantage of by an expert troll.

Tell me again. Who was it who derailed this thread? It started out being about the accomplishments of JBJ, Mookie, Bogarts and Papi and now it's become a thread all about David Ortiz and the PED issue. So again... who was it who derailed it? My suggestion: Maybe we need a separate thread about David Ortiz and PED's and leave this one to the positive accomplishments of the 2016 Red Sox - which is where it started.

Amazing, simply amazing, that the old guard on this board obsesses about how many threads there are while allowing TBSB to openly troll.