S5Dewey

I have to wonder if there would be as much indignation had the Astros defeated, say, the Twins or the Red Sox in that series.

Fans cling to a AAA player more than a ML player? Who do you have in mind, Bryce Brentz? I'd be interesting who you think there is in the minors whom fans would rather see at the ML level than any of the starting 8 position players. Maybe Lin.. because there is no established 2nd baseman.

This is what I keep thinking about now. I KNOW Mookie is an outstanding baseball player, maybe the best player in the game not named Trout, but he's still only one player who comes to bat only once through the rotation and probably makes 4-5 plays a game, nearly all of them routine ones. How much is that really worth? When one thinks about what a team could sign for $30M either in a pitcher or in quality defensive players or a combination of those? That's still a lot of money even in today's market.

...Which would be more acceptable than trading him to the Yankees - for anyone. UGH!

That may be true but it has little to nothing to do with my post. What I was saying in a nutshell is that it takes a lot of courage for a GM to trade a high-performance player whom the fans have become accustomed to having around because there's somebody in AAA who "shows every sign" of being ML ready. A bird in the hand.... especially to the fans who are, at the end of the day, expecting the FO to do as much as possible to put a winning team on the field. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do and I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying it's gutsy.

I agree in theory but it takes a lot of courage to operate that way. Can you imagine what the outcry would be if Devers is playing solid defense and has an OPS of ~1.00 and the Sox trade him the year before he become a FA because there's another player in Pawtucket (Worcester) who's playing well?

...or a center fielder.

Apparently the Steelers players know what it means to "be a good teammate". f*** with one of us, you get us all.

I never said it was limited to MLB.

There's a lot about being a good teammate that some of us don't understand.

I see it as two different issues stemming from the same event. Taking things one by one.... Machado proved he's a cheap shot artist with his "slide". It was after that when the s*** really hit the fan. Issue #1 - Machado didn't show any contrition... no apology, no nothing. He didn't even fake it!! That's inexcusable. IMHO there's no way anyone can have his back after that. Issue #2 - After Pedey's team stood up for him Pedey then threw his teammates under the bus with, "It's not me, it's them". Again, inexcusable. He had the option of saying 'something' or saying 'nothing' and 'nothing' would have been a much better choice. As Larry Lucchino has been quoted as saying, "Nothing is sometimes a good thing to do and always a good thing to say." I'm not quite as down on Pedey as I am on Machado - maybe because he was the victim in the original event and maybe because he plays for the Sox - but the whole thing tarnished my image of him. Pedey had the right to remain silent but didn't have the ability. When your whole team stands up for you, you don't undercut them.

Thanks, but I'm nowhere near ready to let it go. There are certain things that people of character don't do within their profession because it affects their livelihood. Tradesmen of character don't steal one another's tools, people of character in any profession don't fabricate stories about their co-workers that might result in their firing, and professional athletes of character don't recklessly do things that can end another player's career. Machado didn't even try to 'walk it back' with an apology. Instead he said ""I'm not going to change the way I play. "I'm going to keep playing hard and keep doing what I've got to do to help my team win." He ended Pedy's career and the closest he came to an apology was to say that it "wasn't intentional". Nope, sorry. Machado will never be anything but a thug to me and IMO there's no room for him in MLB. It'll be a cold day in Hell before I 'let it go'.

This^^ And I don't understand why every Red Sox fan doesn't feel the same way.

I find this position hard to swallow. The same people do NOT watch every play of every game. There just aren't hours enough in the day to do that. Since Notin has already established that everyone has a bias one cannot simply assume that all these trained people are seeing things the same way.

Ahh.. the old "lesser of two evils" argument!

I'm not sure why we're discussing anything to do with the Yankees or any Yankees player in the TalkSox forum anyway, but we seem to have devoted pages to it. Don't the Yankees have their own thread here? https://www.talksox.com/forum/forums/36-Damn-Yankees

Do you mean like... calling the eye test questionable in favor of defensive metrics when both of them have admitted flaws?

What an interesting debate. It now has some down to some posters defending the eye test - which can undoubtedly be wrong at times - and other posters defending sabermetrics even when the org doing the calculations admits is wrong at times. I'm glad I didn't get involved in this one!!

I fail to see all the indecision about who's the worst defensive SS during Jeter's time. Simply take the dWAR of SS's during Jeter's tenure, and Ta-Da!!! As to UZR not being Range Factor, they may not be the same but they're siblings. If you want to favor UZR over Range Factor's portion of dWAR ... where does that leave you with other player's dWAR which uses RF in determining dWAR for these players?? Doesn't that make dWAR suspect for every player?

It's a pretty safe bet that nearly all MLB players have changed positions at some time. As kids playing Little League the best player on each team is usually the shortstop. When they then progress up a league there is frequently more than one person on the 'new' team who sees himself as a SS but has to change positions because, well, you can't have more than one person at a time playing SS. That trend continues as players progress toward MLB. So it's a pretty safe bet to say that essentially all MLB players have been a shortstop at one time or another. Most of them have changed to a new position. Being a "team" guy I have very little respect for a player who raises a ruckus because the folks running the team want that player to change positions for the good of the team. (See: Jeter, Derek) Now, Re the current discussion about Devers vs. Dalbec @ 1st & 3rd, when I look at the progress Devers has made in 2019 I'd need some pretty compelling evidence before I'd move him to 1st base. I'm of the opinion that anyone who can play 3B can play 1B. The ball comes off the bat at the same angle albeit from the other side and both positions require a quick first step rather than speed. Were it my decision I'd have Dalbec at 1B if only for one reason - he's 4" taller than Devers. Based on my personal experience/"anecdotal evidence" (which is essentially worthless here), I played in the infield with a first baseman who's 6'11". I knew that if I could get the ball anywhere near the base he'd make the play. That makes throws easier to make because I didn't have to think about the throw - and we all know what happens when start thinking too much when throwing. Just ask Chuck Knobloch or Justin Profar.

More condescention. Sometimes you get what you give. But thank you.

That works fine in a teacher/student relationship. I find it to be condescending when it happens between two adults in a discussion.

Exactly. Once a team lets a player go the relationship is broken. Which is why I say if we let Mookie go he's gone for good.

Ummm...yeah... I think there's a difference between the relationship between a student and a teacher and two adults having a discussion.

I don't know. You tell me.