moonslav59

That's hard to know, especially since Moncada was years away from the bigs and Iggy has had injury issues. Moncada's position was also an unknown.

or Bogey + Iggy + Moncada > Bogey + Moncada + Shaw/Pablo

...but, seeing his name ahead of Yaz gives me the taste of vomit in my mouth. Wow on the Trotskyite.

That's like saying the Lugo signing was good, because we won with him as our SS.

WAR is a stat heavily influenced by playing time, and while Iggy's injuries should count against him, when he plays, he's above average over-all. Out of the top 43 SSs since 2013, Bogey places 7th in WAR at 9.4, and he has 2017 PAs since 2013. Iggy places 24th, but he has only 1349 PAs (about 2/3rd of what Bogey has). If you add 50% of Iggy's WAR to his 5.6, he'd be at 8.4 with 2064 PAs. That would place him 11th out of 43- clearly top third. If he keeps getting hurt, then his value is average or below average. I get that, but when he plays, he's about top 3rd "all around"

I got blasted for suggesting we play him at DH, until we found a position he can play well enough to not be a significant negative. I still think LF may be the best spot for him, but we have a solid OF locked up for 3+ years. I don't want to trade JBJ, the guy every GM seems to ask for, but the idea of moving Beni to CF and having a decent fielding Moncada in LF some day is inviting.

The "clutch" sample size is too small. Besides, he had a .749 OPS in Late & Close situations this year- about in the middle of Sox players.

I was thinking the same thing, but UZR/150 suggests using larger sample sizes than just 1 year, esecially for positions that don't get as much action as the IF. JBJ places 8th out of 45 in UZR/150 since 2014. (5th out of 17 with 2500 innings)...a little better.

Moncada has such upside on offense, and he's such a great athlete that I think many feel that's going to be enough for him to win the 3B job over the 2017 season. I'm not convinced either, but our 3B position had the worst WAR in MLB last season, so an improvement may not take much. I hesitate to put much faith in the guy who played 3B more than anyone this year, Shaw. I think he may be traded.

How did our positions rank with fielding this year? 4th Catching others by UZR/150 1st second base 3rd right field 10th first Base 11th center field 15th third base 17th short stop 26th left field How about offense (using fangraph's offense score on value page): 2nd RF 4th CF 4th SS 11th 2B 11th LF 15th 1B 19th Catcher 30th 3B

Nothing to argue with here. I do think we may trade a 3Bman, since we have so many of similar promise and concern. I think a lot depends on Pablo, but my expectations are that the best we can hope for is for him to be our DH vs RHPs and maybe 3rd string 3Bman and 2nd or 3rd string 1Bman, depending on Shaw's roster status.

His offense has not been so bad as many think it has or would be. His .694 OPS since 2013 places him 25th out of 42 SSs with 100+ PAs. On fangraph's value page, he places 21st out of 42 on SS batting since 2013. He's 10th on defense, despite playing about half the innings as others. Boegy places 25th on D and 11th in batting. But, this really isn't about Iggy vs Bogey, it's about Iggy + Bogey.

I've named several trades in the past, but the problem is, we can never be sure the other teams would say yes. Take the Kimbrel deal, last winter I suggested we sign Clippard and make a minor trade for KRod. I also said I'd rather have signed Miller than pay more (per year) for Kimbrel. Assuming those possibilities, maybe even combined, were possible, then I'd have offered a mega deal to sign Carrasco, Salazar, Quintana or Sale, but again, those guys were probably not available unless there was a massive overpay. I thought I was offering an overpay, but we'll never know, if it was "massive" enough. I did not include Espi in the deal, but now that he has been traded, one could consider the chances with him added to a deal. I offered Swihart, Margot, Guerra (still had high value then), Owens & Johnson (both had higher value last winter). Sub Espi for Owens and Johnson and I think we get someone to listen. Looking at trades made recently, and trying to figure out if we could have offered more is also a difficult thing to do, but I think we could have gotten Matt Moore for less than Espi, Margot, Guerra and Allen...way less. Right now, I'd have offered Swihart, Margot, Allen and Espi for Quintana, and had we signed Miller, we'd have Quintana-Miller, instead of Pomeranz-Kimbrel (minus Swihart). I realize this is jusr speculation, and I know I'll be accused of beating a dead horse, but we gave up top talent for the right to pay FA like money for a closer and a mid-rotation starter with a very little record of success. I know, it sounds like Monday morning quarterbacking to always say this and that deal suck, but I have offered alternative suggestions that are more times than not criticized for offering too much- not too little.

I'm fine with Bogey at SS, but I wouldn't say he's "good on defense". I'm a little bummed out that he showed progress on D last year, but then took a step backwards this year... UZR/150: 2014: -3.7 (20th out of 31) 2015: +0.9 (15th out of 31) 2016: -2.8 (17th out of 29) DRS: 2014: -9 (25th) 2015: -1 (16th) 2016_ -10 (27th) 2014-2016 combined: UZR/150: Iggy +7.9 (9th out of 32) Bogey -1.6 (18th out of 32) DRS Iggy 0 (14th) Bogey -20 (28th) If you're not a plus, I wouldn't call you "good".

Yep, some fans would rather sacrifice the efforts of 24 players trying to win the Division. Pomeranz and Espi were not the only two choices. Love Monday morning quarterbacks. How is it Monday morning QB'ing, when some of us hated the deal the second it was made?

I hated the idea of trading away our best wire-to-wires starter, but it looked like we had 6 good starters and we needed a solid RP'er. I liked the trade too. The Ziegler deal was a good one, too.

I was at a game. Rico ran once and someone hit a libe drive off Dick Pole's face. The ball rolled towards 3B and Rico ran right past it on his way to check on Dick. He was a classy player. I also remember, Rick Burleson (maybe?) running into foul territory to grab the ball and keep the runner at 2B. Maybe my memory is faulty, but I think it happened that way. Anyone else remember that game?

I wonder why our guy needs more time than others.

He has seemed to boot more than his share of routine plays, but out of 34 SSs with over 2500 innings since 2011, here's how Iggy ranks (including games he was playing hurt or while recovering): UZR/150 22.0 Simmons 11.6 Cozart 10.9 Hardy 10.2 B Ryan 10.0 IGGY 9.6 Barmes 9.6 Crawford Approx DRS per 3000 innings: 94 B Ryan 70 Simmons 66 Barmes 40 Tulo 30 Crawford 30 Cozart 24 Hardy 17 Hecha 14 IGGY 9 Peralta

Agreed, but the protocol has changed sine the old days, and 9 months from the surgery on 5-24-16 is still before ST'ing, so who knows...

Back in the day...when we were having all those Iggy discussions, there wasn't a man on earth that wouldn't have taken Iggy in a heartbeat had they been assured he's have a .275 BA after almost 1500 MLB PAs. The argument was always about him not ever likely hitting over .225.

I've been side-by-side with you on this one from way back. I was arguing for Iggy to be our FT SS, before he even made MLB. I'm a sucker for outstanding SS defense, especially ones with superior range. I remember doing study after study on how great-ranged SSs can make 60-100 more plays than bad ones over 150 games, which if you added the 75 hits saved to the guys BA over 500 ABs, he'd hit .150 higher than his projected .200 BA.

I loved Luis. That was the year before I became a Sox fan. That winter, the Sox traded for my boyhood hero, Tommy Harper, and I switched allegiances.

Thought the time was now more like 7-9 months.

Rico hit 40 HRs as a SS back in '69. (97 in 3 years from '69-'71, but in 1971, he was switched to 3B)